The wages of sin is death. What sins do animals do?

Thanks for the refutation.
You convinced me.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by eleven44

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by eleven44
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Animals can not sin.
They didn't eat from the Tree of Knowledge and therefore do not judge right from wrong or claim to know better than God.
They are not separated from God and therefore cannot act outside of God or deny God.

"Death" is not a physical death. Death, in this sense, is the souls inability to fully reunite with God. One will die again and again and again (reincarnation), but will not remember any past lives or their connection to The source until the soul has become enlightened and rises from the ashes (like a phoenix, so to speak) and consciously reunites with God.

Some believe that once the soul has been enlightened we form a 'merkaba,' or an energy field around us, which will safely transport us at the time of physical death to the next dimension where we will retain all memory of past lives and lessons learned.

So why did God destroy the animals if they could not sin?

Regards
DL

What's your definition of 'destroyed'?
Physical death is not a destruction, it is a return, a homecoming. It is a cycle. They will be reborn again, eventually. We simply will wake from this dream into another one.

You can not destroy energy.

Time to wake from your own dream and tell us how you know what you said to be facts and not fiction.
You are just making stuff up unless you have something more than hearsay or book say.
Show what you have my friend.

Regards
DL

You want proof...but I'm not allowed to give you any personal experiences or insights, and I'm not allowed to use book references to show you other documented facts and explanations?

I don't think you want proof.
All you want to do is argue because you think you are smarter than anyone who believes in God. You see people who believe in God as a 'weak' person who 'needs' something else to feel 'better' about their life. (Yes, i'm putting words into your mouth/fingers, but I'm assuming by your attitude.) This means you do not know much about religion or God other than what you too have been 'taught' or have learned in passing from (probably) other 'Christians' or other hypocritical religions who do not have a true personal connection with God and with love. This means you do not understand the symbolism of ancient texts, or understand how much they truly understood about our connection to the cosmos and to this planet. This means you probably haven't gone very far within yourself, whether it be from meditation or mind/reality altering experiences. This means you haven't asked God to show you what God is.
I use to be like you. Then I opened my mind and kept doing research.
The thing is, it's not just about opening your mind. The brain is powerful, no doubt, but it's the Heart that contains the most power. You must open your heart to faith and love and peace. None of those three things will you find with 'facts.'

Ask me a specific question if you like.
I'm not coming at this from even remotely a 'traditional' viewpoint.
I have studied many different theologies, religions, philosophies, ancient cultures, paranormal events, and more (and did more 'research' than just 'abovetopsecret.'...but i'm not allowed to use 'books' as proof.)

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Yes. It is a high form of Christian morality to embrace human sacrifice and the notion that it is good to punish the innocent instead of the guilty.

Christian fools tell me this all the time.

You are exactly right in saying that only very few understands what your saying.

It is not human sacrifice like in Mayan tradition which is symbolic....

It's like inventing free energy motor and you posted the plans/blueprints freely in a blog. Then you got killed by the oil Cartels in revenge because it so very much destroyed their empire! That's how it works.

The truth will kill the deliverer for it will so much destroy the false doctrine today and will anger the wicked who holds on to the false Gospel and their many idols!

Time will come the believers of the false religion will have teeth and kill the true followers of Jesus believing they are doing it for God, but actually the false god.

I'm not just talking about the Muslims! Even more bloody sinister than that!

Originally posted by Hillarie

Originally posted by eleven44
reply to post by Cuervo

 

reply to post by Cuervo

 

All life comes from the same source.
All death returns to the same source.
The difference is whether our soul remembers the lessons we have learned, and if we have learned all the lessons we need.

And, Jesus came to show us that Humans ARE capable of attaining everlasting life while on earth in human form. That was his purpose. Most will not. Most still lives of sin (sin literally means 'to miss the mark.') Most of us do not even strive to attain spiritual enlightenment. This does not mean it is impossible.

If all Jesus came for was to show that humans are capable of attaining everlasting life while on earth in human form, why did he have to die that horrible death?

This life is like a movie.
Our soul has decided to come and be a part of this movie.
"Why?" You might ask.
Well...why do people go to movies to begin with?
We like the drama, the thrill, the excitement, the fun, the love...we learn, laugh, cry, experience....we suspend disbelief while watching a (good) film and become attached to the characters...we cry when they die....laugh when they joke and leave when it's done.....but it's just a film.
Life is the same. It's just a movie that we are a part of so that we can learn and experience and grow.
The Ascended Masters, such as Jesus (who really are pure channels of God) also utilize these very 'human' qualities and characteristics in order to demonstrate a point.
The truth will be killed. People will always hate the truth. It scares them. Shakes them from their comfortable little lives. Makes them face facts they don't want to face. This is what happened with Jesus. Not 'to' Jesus. But 'with' Him.
Jesus died, but the point of his death is that he rose again. He did not 'die' on the cross, for we are more than physical beings...we are spiritual beings. Consciousness continues even after death. It never ceases.
The whole point of Jesus' life and Death was to show us that We, in Human form, can attain enlightenment and are meant to be more than suffering little physical humans denying our own true power and connection. We are extremely powerful beings. But we must remember this first, and then consciously work towards re-building that communion with God.
God does not hate 'sinners.' For we are all 'sinners.'
To 'sin' means to 'miss the mark.' And how many times have you messed up? I know I have messed up a lot. But it's fine! We are MADE to be 'sinners,' to 'sin' is the whole reason we are here to begin with. We must sin. It is how we learn it is how we grow. It is through sin that we learn (eventually, hopefully) that we truly just long to be happy with and one with God. It is the whole reason this plane of existence was created.
We came from a place of 'perfection' and will return to a place of 'perfection.' But in the meantime, we get to have a physical experience. It's not enough for us to 'know' about perfection and imperfection, we must experience it. So here we are.

But for many of us, and for the sake of our planet, our souls are coming to an end of their rotation here. It is time for us to rise up. It is time to remember our connection. Not all will. And even that is okay. But for those that do, it will be a very glorious experience. And hopefully there will be enough who do to make life better for all those who choose to stay suffering.

reply to post by Greatest I am



For me, God is not unjust. So no he did not kill unjustly.
In the flood everything was wiped away apart from what was in the flood.

in my opinion the whole of society had become so self centered and of a corruption mind against God (and depending on the texts that you choose to read also corrupt physically with the fallen angel DNA. Either jasher or Enoch say the fallen angels mated with animals as well as humans)

Therefore it was not unjust.

Additionally the slate wiped clean to preserve the bloodline of Christ.

From a non Christian perspective it sounds horrendous. We don't know the numbers involved and in my opinion its irrelevant. I'm happy and thankful for what he did as christ was able to come and die for my sins.

If you go along the lines that the population was not corrupt DNA wise and children not culpable then I thank the Lord anyway as he shortened the days of them here in this hard life and will be part of his glorious resurrection.

I love my kids but I would rather God take them as innocents than for them to grow up and be lost to God and perish never knowing the Lord.

Regards

Originally posted by eleven44

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by eleven44

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by eleven44
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Animals can not sin.
They didn't eat from the Tree of Knowledge and therefore do not judge right from wrong or claim to know better than God.
They are not separated from God and therefore cannot act outside of God or deny God.

"Death" is not a physical death. Death, in this sense, is the souls inability to fully reunite with God. One will die again and again and again (reincarnation), but will not remember any past lives or their connection to The source until the soul has become enlightened and rises from the ashes (like a phoenix, so to speak) and consciously reunites with God.

Some believe that once the soul has been enlightened we form a 'merkaba,' or an energy field around us, which will safely transport us at the time of physical death to the next dimension where we will retain all memory of past lives and lessons learned.

So why did God destroy the animals if they could not sin?

Regards
DL

What's your definition of 'destroyed'?
Physical death is not a destruction, it is a return, a homecoming. It is a cycle. They will be reborn again, eventually. We simply will wake from this dream into another one.

You can not destroy energy.

Time to wake from your own dream and tell us how you know what you said to be facts and not fiction.
You are just making stuff up unless you have something more than hearsay or book say.
Show what you have my friend.

Regards
DL

You want proof...but I'm not allowed to give you any personal experiences or insights, and I'm not allowed to use book references to show you other documented facts and explanations?

I don't think you want proof.
All you want to do is argue because you think you are smarter than anyone who believes in God. You see people who believe in God as a 'weak' person who 'needs' something else to feel 'better' about their life. (Yes, i'm putting words into your mouth/fingers, but I'm assuming by your attitude.)
I use to be like you. Then I opened my mind and kept doing research.
The thing is, it's not just about opening your mind. The brain is powerful, no doubt, but it's the Heart that contains the most power. You must open your heart to faith and love and peace. None of those three things will you find with 'facts.'

Ask me a specific question if you like.
I'm not coming at this from even remotely a 'traditional' viewpoint.
I have studied many different theologies, religions, philosophies, ancient cultures, paranormal events, and more (and did more 'research' than just 'abovetopsecret.'...but i'm not allowed to use 'books' as proof.)

Sure you can but not a book that begins with a talking snake and ends with a seven headed monster.
That is a book of myths. Right?

Or do you think animals can talk human?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by ahnggk

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Yes. It is a high form of Christian morality to embrace human sacrifice and the notion that it is good to punish the innocent instead of the guilty.

Christian fools tell me this all the time.

You are exactly right in saying that only very few understands what your saying.

It is not human sacrifice like in Mayan tradition which is symbolic....

It's like inventing free energy motor and you posted the plans/blueprints freely in a blog. Then you got killed by the oil Cartels in revenge because it so very much destroyed their empire! That's how it works.

The truth will kill the deliverer for it will so much destroy the false doctrine today and will anger the wicked who holds on to the false Gospel and their many idols!

Time will come the believers of the false religion will have teeth and kill the true followers of Jesus believing they are doing it for God, but actually the false god.

I'm not just talking about the Muslims! Even more bloody sinister than that!

Which gospels are the right ones?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by drevill
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

For me, God is not unjust. So no he did not kill unjustly.
In the flood everything was wiped away apart from what was in the flood.

in my opinion the whole of society had become so self centered and of a corruption mind against God (and depending on the texts that you choose to read also corrupt physically with the fallen angel DNA. Either jasher or Enoch say the fallen angels mated with animals as well as humans)

Therefore it was not unjust.

Additionally the slate wiped clean to preserve the bloodline of Christ.

From a non Christian perspective it sounds horrendous. We don't know the numbers involved and in my opinion its irrelevant. I'm happy and thankful for what he did as christ was able to come and die for my sins.

If you go along the lines that the population was not corrupt DNA wise and children not culpable then I thank the Lord anyway as he shortened the days of them here in this hard life and will be part of his glorious resurrection.

I love my kids but I would rather God take them as innocents than for them to grow up and be lost to God and perish never knowing the Lord.

Regards

edit on 5-10-2012 by drevill because: typo

How was your ticket to heaven purchased? With innocent blood?

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am



Sorry I thought this was discussion time not incite time.

However in a nutshell christ died he was innocent.

If u don't understand my belief from my previous post I'm more than happy to expound.

The innocents that you talk of died because it was Gods will. Its his creation so I'm very happy and trust he knows what he is doing.

Why do you think that it is wrong?

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Sure you can but not a book that begins with a talking snake and ends with a seven headed monster.
That is a book of myths. Right?

Or do you think animals can talk human?

Regards
DL

I have come to my own personal understanding of the Bible, but it takes much research, not only into 'Christian' philosophy, but ancient cultures and religions and symbolism used all around the world.
I believe the 'snake' is a reference to part of our DNA and is something that lives within us. This is seen throughout ancient cultures, specifically in Mayan and Aztec, as well as in Eastern and Hebrew.
The seven headed beast is a very big metaphor (again, these are all poetically encoded metaphors and parables, not literally stories. It seems you get upset that people take these as literal stories but have chosen not to look into them yourself to see what they could actually mean.) The ten horned, seven headed beast is a reference to empirical countries/kingdoms who will take over the world (NWO anyone...?) as well as to astronomical events. It's really too in-depth to go in to right here, but click on THIS LINK to do some research for yourself. (I'm going to re-read again myself. It's been a year or two since I've looked into this specific story. And there are more sites with more info out there, this was just one that I found to present for this post.)

As for other books regarding multiple lifetimes and reincarnation, look into the works by Brian Weiss M.D. "Only Love is Real" and "Many Lives, Many Masters" are both great. Brian Weiss is a psychologist who had a very traditional western medicine education through Yale, but then also started working with hypnosis. Through hypnosis he 'accidentally' stumbled upon past life regressions. He now specializes in regressing people into very very vivid past lives. Some of his patients can recall recent past lives, including their name and where they lived, and have then been able to go look up the records of that person and even visit their grave site. Some have been able to speak ancient languages they have never learned nor heard before. Others are able to describe past civilizations in extremely accurate detail that can be verified later by historians. And some (very few) are able to actually go in between lifetimes and become a direct channel for 'The Masters' (which are other dimensional beings.) These Masters speak directly through them and deliver beautifully lucid messages of love and spiritual/philosophical ideas that are far beyond the current understanding of the person they are being channeled through.

Also, the book "The Holographic Universe" by Michael Talbot is one that I recommend to almost all my friends. It's amazing and beautiful and explains everything from both a scientific and spiritual point of view.

"The Journey of Awakening" by Ram Dass is about beginning meditation and conscious living. It's about quieting the mind so we can better listen to the heart. This book (whether you're religious or a believer or not) can do wonders. Ram Dass is a very beautiful and light soul.

The Tao te Ching is another great read.


But going back to the imagery of the bible...it was written in Hebrew over two thousand years ago (some say Greek, though this has been refuted.) Regardless, it was written in a different language then translated to English. So much is lost in translation. Not even just in the literal translation, but in cultural translation.

What if I wrote, "After the presidential debate, Obama was asked, 'What's the matter, Prez, cat got your tongue?'"
Then, two thousand years from now, someone translates that into a different language in a different culture, and it now says, "After the battle of kings, Lord Obama was asked, 'What happened, Great Leader, did a lion eat your tongue?"
Now that civilization is going to think we had kings duking it out in the ring with lions running around eating their tongues.
Do you see what I'm sayin?

Besides, many many many of the images and symbols and numbers used in the bible (and other ancient texts) are Astronomical references. Just keep searching.

(also, look up 'the bible code.' very interesting stuff. I want to learn more about it myself!)

Originally posted by stupid girl
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

And I think I will add one of my personal faves:

which I reserve for only those select few who wander into the abyss of utter absurdity.
Such as the above insinuation that Jesus committed suicide.
Really, there just are no words that could do justice.

Cool bird, not as cool as my hamburger.

Originally posted by micmerci
"Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now."

Romans 8:21-22

This verse alone shows that all creatures will enter into the glorious liberty of the children of God. What do you think that may be?

ETA: Another- "God loves all His creation and has made plans for all His children and the lesser creatures to enjoy His eternal Kingdom."

Psalm 145:-9-10,13,15-21

edit on 4-10-2012 by micmerci because: (no reason given)

Some very interesting posts in this thread, but I think you are closest to it. I used to believe the theologians mentioned by Cuervo, but found that nothing added up, thinking that way. These theologians were among those that once led me to the brink of thinking that God couldn't logically exist - then I found that this was wrong, so then working backwards as it were, realised that it was these theologicans who were wrong. There are arguments they can make, but not really strong ones. When I think more like Julian of Norwich than like them ("All shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well") everything falls into place for me, not just about animals but also about the nature of God. The thing about sin is that its effects are not only specific to the individual but also general to the world and creation. Living in the country and watching the natural world, you can see all the time what a mess everything is in, whether or not I personally might make even more of a mess with my sins. In spite of some strange beliefs in parts of the church historically, which tried to put animals on trial for things they were deemed to have done wrong, I've come to the conclusion that animals are not held accountable in the way that we are. (The "talking snake" is held accountable, but as someone else pointed out, is not really a snake as we know it Jim...) Animals are, as you imply in your quote, waiting patiently for the redemption of the whole system, because it works as a whole, and if they understood more they would probably feel quite frustrated that we are the key to that and when it comes to our own redemptive processes we are incredibly slow on the uptake.

reply to post by Greatest I am

That would make God the killer of innocent children, babies and animals.
That would make him quite the prick.

You're trying to make a moral judgement against God using humanity as a template, and it doesn't work. It doesn't work because we are his creation and he is so far beyond us, and our ways and thoughts that it is impossible to judge him. You base your own experiences on what being human is like and you try to judge him according to what you know. He is not human, and you are not God, how then can you make a judgement against something you know nothing about and be accurate? You can't it's imossible.

He allows death to happen for his own reason, that being he will not allow us to suffer for eternity in a corrupted state of existence, in impurity. There are 2 deaths, the body and the spirit. You can survive the death of your body, because it was decreed that our bodies should return to the earth from which they come, yet it is not decreed that we should die the second death of the spirit if we believe in Jesus the Christ, it is this death where babies, toddlers, mentally handicapped and retarded people are exempt from. That's a beautiful, just, righteous and merciful God's love, to excuse them and then give the rest of us a way out of our predicament. I'd say the prick is the one who lied to us and told us we can be equal to God, and murdered us all from the beginning to the end, for which we needed a Savior to resurrect our spirits.

reply to post by FissionSurplus

Originally posted by FissionSurplus
The concept of "sin" means that the entity who is sinning is one who understands what sin is.

Just as Adam and Eve knew nothing until they ate from the Tree of Knowledge, and suddenly became aware that they were nekkid as jaybirds, it can safely be assumed that animals are in that state of ignorant bliss.

So what if you don't believe in morality and think it is all made up? Obviously you are ignorant of sin so you should get a free pass, right?

Are atheists excused since they are "ignorant" of sin?

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by FissionSurplus

 

Originally posted by FissionSurplus
The concept of "sin" means that the entity who is sinning is one who understands what sin is.

Just as Adam and Eve knew nothing until they ate from the Tree of Knowledge, and suddenly became aware that they were nekkid as jaybirds, it can safely be assumed that animals are in that state of ignorant bliss.

So what if you don't believe in morality and think it is all made up? Obviously you are ignorant of sin so you should get a free pass, right?

Are atheists excused since they are "ignorant" of sin?

There is a big difference between ignorance and arrogance.

Originally posted by eleven44

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by eleven44

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by eleven44
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Animals can not sin.
They didn't eat from the Tree of Knowledge and therefore do not judge right from wrong or claim to know better than God.
They are not separated from God and therefore cannot act outside of God or deny God.

"Death" is not a physical death. Death, in this sense, is the souls inability to fully reunite with God. One will die again and again and again (reincarnation), but will not remember any past lives or their connection to The source until the soul has become enlightened and rises from the ashes (like a phoenix, so to speak) and consciously reunites with God.

Some believe that once the soul has been enlightened we form a 'merkaba,' or an energy field around us, which will safely transport us at the time of physical death to the next dimension where we will retain all memory of past lives and lessons learned.

So why did God destroy the animals if they could not sin?

Regards
DL

What's your definition of 'destroyed'?
Physical death is not a destruction, it is a return, a homecoming. It is a cycle. They will be reborn again, eventually. We simply will wake from this dream into another one.

You can not destroy energy.

Time to wake from your own dream and tell us how you know what you said to be facts and not fiction.
You are just making stuff up unless you have something more than hearsay or book say.
Show what you have my friend.

Regards
DL

You want proof...but I'm not allowed to give you any personal experiences or insights, and I'm not allowed to use book references to show you other documented facts and explanations?

I don't think you want proof.
All you want to do is argue because you think you are smarter than anyone who believes in God. You see people who believe in God as a 'weak' person who 'needs' something else to feel 'better' about their life. (Yes, i'm putting words into your mouth/fingers, but I'm assuming by your attitude.) This means you do not know much about religion or God other than what you too have been 'taught' or have learned in passing from (probably) other 'Christians' or other hypocritical religions who do not have a true personal connection with God and with love. This means you do not understand the symbolism of ancient texts, or understand how much they truly understood about our connection to the cosmos and to this planet. This means you probably haven't gone very far within yourself, whether it be from meditation or mind/reality altering experiences. This means you haven't asked God to show you what God is.
I use to be like you. Then I opened my mind and kept doing research.
The thing is, it's not just about opening your mind. The brain is powerful, no doubt, but it's the Heart that contains the most power. You must open your heart to faith and love and peace. None of those three things will you find with 'facts.'

Ask me a specific question if you like.
I'm not coming at this from even remotely a 'traditional' viewpoint.
I have studied many different theologies, religions, philosophies, ancient cultures, paranormal events, and more (and did more 'research' than just 'abovetopsecret.'...but i'm not allowed to use 'books' as proof.)

edit on 5-10-2012 by eleven44 because: (no reason given)

I am French and to the English, will always sound more harsh and ignorant than what is true.
That is just style. Get used to it.

You are mostly wrong in how you see me. You say I see weakness in believers and many times do if they are sheeople instead of people. But I am not an atheist. I am a Gnostic Christian who knows that there is what most call a God. I have had an apotheosis and was basically asking if you have as well so yes, throw in your personal experience if you have any to show.

I too researched and read many of the topics you have so we are not so far apart. I was more fishing to see if you had bought into al the fantasy, miracles and magic that many theists hide behind in order to not judge their genocidal son murdering God.

So ease up, give a bit more information and then decide if we will hate each other or not.
I do not have the room here but below I give my anecdotal story. Not for your belief but just so you will know where I am coming from.

Regards
DL

The Godhead I know in a nutshell.
I was a skeptic till the age of 39.
I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself a Gnostic Christian naturalist.
Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake.

“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”

This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of O T God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheeple where Gnostic Christians are goats.
This is perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.

During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.

I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness.

The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. He does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.

I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have tribal mentalities and poor morals.

I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.

I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to discard whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar and seek further.

My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

That would make God the killer of innocent children, babies and animals.
That would make him quite the prick.

You're trying to make a moral judgement against God using humanity as a template, and it doesn't work. It doesn't work because we are his creation and he is so far beyond us, and our ways and thoughts that it is impossible to judge him. You base your own experiences on what being human is like and you try to judge him according to what you know. He is not human, and you are not God, how then can you make a judgement against something you know nothing about and be accurate? You can't it's imossible.

He allows death to happen for his own reason, that being he will not allow us to suffer for eternity in a corrupted state of existence, in impurity. There are 2 deaths, the body and the spirit. You can survive the death of your body, because it was decreed that our bodies should return to the earth from which they come, yet it is not decreed that we should die the second death of the spirit if we believe in Jesus the Christ, it is this death where babies, toddlers, mentally handicapped and retarded people are exempt from. That's a beautiful, just, righteous and merciful God's love, to excuse them and then give the rest of us a way out of our predicament. I'd say the prick is the one who lied to us and told us we can be equal to God, and murdered us all from the beginning to the end, for which we needed a Savior to resurrect our spirits.

Seems you have not read your bible. If you did you certainly did not understand it.

You say we cannot judge him yet you have. Lie to yourself much?
You have judged him good have you not?
If you can judge him good then reciprocity says that others can also judge and give a different verdict.

As to his ways being so far from ours. Have you forgotten your birth rite from A & E?
God said they became as Gods in terms of a moral sense so if they could, what is holding you back?
Get off your ass and reach out for your birth rite like a man. Your church has been telling you how stupid you are for so long you are believing it. You are not as dumb as you think.
Regards
DL

Originally posted by drevill
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Sorry I thought this was discussion time not incite time.

However in a nutshell christ died he was innocent.

If u don't understand my belief from my previous post I'm more than happy to expound.

The innocents that you talk of died because it was Gods will. Its his creation so I'm very happy and trust he knows what he is doing.

Why do you think that it is wrong?

I think it wrong because your God is a prick.

It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.

If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this "solution" for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?

God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.

This then begs the question.

What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?

Only an insane God. That’s who.

The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice, thus showing it‘s immorality.

One of Christianity's highest form of immorality is what they have done to women.
They have denied them equality and subjugated them to men.

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Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am


Ha ha wow.

Hiding something are we?

You show a complete lack of understanding of the Christian faith but choose to attack it on that erroneous premise.

As you mention Gods plan it is one of salvation. He created the angels with evident free will. He created man and personally feel that he was not given free will. Please read on and I'll tell you why.

Yes the fall in Eden was engineered as was everything else. Christ his son was God in the flesh so no child sacrifice.

So why this whole man thing??? Well Angels have free will and God wants them to love him freely. The plan with man will show his righteousness in dealing with Lucifer and the rebelling angels. Once this is complete those that be live in Christ will be as the angels with free will and live in love with others without sin as Lucifer will not be around to tempt.

So man was and is and will be, first and foremost, a judgement tool against the fallen angels.

Some people will not like the fact that man was not the priority here.
Regards