Explain to me how this logic works with Iran, but not North Korea?

Let me get this straight: those in favor of military action against Iran are supportive of it because:

1)Mahmoud Ahmadinnerjacket is a nutcase who believes in radical Islamic fundamentalism (eg: terror)

2)They have threatened Israel's safety *verbally* many times

3)They work with other rogue terrorist/fundie states and groups

4)They could, at some as-yet theoretical point in the near (or far) future, obtain a nuclear weapon; there is evidence of this

5)They would not hesitate to use that weapon on Israel, as they are zealous in their hatred for Israelis and Zionists, and believe the delusion that they would win that war in the long-haul (or are just okay with being destroyed)

6)They have not attacked anyone directly in a few hundred years, but they sponsor terrorism and say point-blank that they will attack Israel, the US and their allies on a whim

That about sums it up, right? (As far as the supporters' reasoning, anyways)

So the question is.......why not North Korea? If Iran makes you tremble with fear, why are you not absolutely shi##ing yourself over North Korea and the imminent danger the South Koreans and Japanese----our allies----are in every single day?

1)Kim Jung Il was a stark raving lunatic who kept his people in abject squalor and literal starvation to fund his own lavish lifestyle, killing them or putting them in labor camps for the rest of their lives if they even speak out. His son has not proven to be any different so far, and may even have a great immediate reason to take military action against someone to reinforce his new status as dictator.

2)Not only has NK verbally threatened SKorea's safety (as well as US interests there), but they've actually taken recent military action against the South (Yeonpyeong island, ROKS Cheonan sinking) and KILLED and wounded civilians and military! THEY STILL TEACH THEIR CHILDREN THAT THEY'RE CURRENTLY AT WAR WITH THE US!!!! [Edited to add: not just that we're technically still at war because no treaties were signed, but as in the US is actively planning to invade them again at any moment.]

3)North Korea has been tied to many instances of sponsoring terror, and while not on the official UN "State Sponsors of Terror" list at the moment, it used to be and is being considered to be a part of it once again: source

4)THEY ALREADY HAVE NUCLEAR WEAPONS AND THE CAPABILITY OF MAKING AND PROCURING MORE!!! They are even close to having reliable missiles to deliver them to MANY ally countries in the region, including our own facilities there

5)Again, they teach their kids in school that the US is still at war with them, FFS! They're Commies! They hate our "freedums" more than the Islamists do, they've built their whole society around it! They see themselves as victims of the US empire, and long to bring us down at least a peg or two, that's been their burning desire for 60 years! And yet, for as long as they've had nukes, they still haven't used them on anyone, have they? Perhaps even lunacy understands the notion of mutually assured destruction (or at least, in this case, personally assured destruction)?

6)Again, they HAVE attacked US allies in the VERY recent past and are constantly wagging their dongs around shouting about how badly they're going to burn SK and the imperialist scum Yanks!! There's no speculation or pre-emptive chance here; they've already done the deed!

So again, I'll ask those of you who support military action against Iran, ESPECIALLY pre-emptive action: why would you prefer to use our limited resources to attack a country which has only threatened or been accused of the very same things North Korea HAS ALREADY DONE?!?!?! Why are they less of a threat to us, our freedoms and our allies than Iran?

North Korea doesn't have the oil and natural gas reserves that Iran has. And they will say the same thing about Iran that they did about Iraq. The oil will pay for the war looks like that check got lost in the mail.

reply to post by buster2010


Exactly. And people eat it up. Every last syllable of propaganda.

I agree with you entirely about North Korea being far more deserving..IF we feel the irresistible need to go to war against some other nation again. Personally, I think 2 wars in a couple decade period should be our legal limit and it's time to END the second one while we're at it. Yesterday would be fine by me.

As for why? I believe it comes down to 2 basic reasons.

#1. North Korea HAS Nukes....Iran does NOT. The US obviously knows that on both. It makes Iran safe enough to go pound and North Korea did have it's period of serious threat too. I recall that until they proved they had atomic weapons, if not nuclear and they don't need anything special to throw one into Japan. If Iran actually tests a nuke, I think the U.S. will back off faster than you can say it....unless it causes Israel to instantly attack. I still don't buy the fact they are making them at all though...as previously noted in other posts.

#2. North Korea has VERY VERY big friends and those friends do NOT want U.S. Combat forces on TWO of their borders at the same time. True, the border Afghanistan shares with China is a tiny one...but don't figure that means China isn't very well aware it's there. China damn near threw the United Nations clear off the peninsula the last time we ran U.S. forces up to the Yalu river. I think they are determined it never happen again...and so there is the 2nd reason I think it brings actual fear to a man like Obama to even consider the idea.

Getting stomped to mush in a ground war to repeat the Korean Conflict would be political disaster like nothing else could quite match. I'll bet that's been enough to keep a few Presidents from ever seriously considering it as more than retaliation to a North Korean attack on the South. IMO.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Getting stomped to mush in a ground war to repeat the Korean Conflict would be political disaster like nothing else could quite match. I'll bet that's been enough to keep a few Presidents from ever seriously considering it as more than retaliation to a North Korean attack on the South. IMO.

That's if American forces hit the ground to begin with. We could win a war and never use small arms fire. We have the greatest Air Force in the world. I'm sure we would use it extensively in a war vs. ACTUAL armies.

Big back on topic, you guys are exactly right. It's all about oil and making a profit.

Oh don't worry about north Korea......that one is coming down the pipeline as well. We aren't rushing it though.....but trust me, it is on a steady simmer on the geo political back burner. We have to be a bit more careful with that one.....after all we are trying not to piss in chinas backyard. I think we will get to it eventually....it is just about strategdy at this point, and now they are focusing on things in the ME. Secure the resources first before we try to tangle with any other nations.

Originally posted by 00nunya00

2)Not only has NK verbally threatened SKorea's safety (as well as US interests there), but they've actually taken recent military action against the South (Yeonpyeong island, ROKS Cheonan sinking) and KILLED and wounded civilians and military! THEY STILL TEACH THEIR CHILDREN THAT THEY'RE CURRENTLY AT WAR WITH THE US!!!!

We are technically still at war with North Korea. The Korean conflict never ended with a peace treaty, just an armistice.

I'm not for action against Iran. If they were to attack another nation with a Nuke, then I'd back it, (false flag attacks don't count). I think Wrabbit hit the nail on the head. As they already have nukes and thus pose an all together different problem, than a nation without one.

Originally posted by olliemc84
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Getting stomped to mush in a ground war to repeat the Korean Conflict would be political disaster like nothing else could quite match. I'll bet that's been enough to keep a few Presidents from ever seriously considering it as more than retaliation to a North Korean attack on the South. IMO.

That's if American forces hit the ground to begin with. We could win a war and never use small arms fire. We have the greatest Air Force in the world. I'm sure we would use it extensively in a war vs. ACTUAL armies.

Big back on topic, you guys are exactly right. It's all about oil and making a profit.

North Korea has 11,000 Artillery Pieces and an unknown number of Missile batteries pointing and half cocked toward South Korea. Now that may not mean much to someone really cold hearted in terms of the loss of South Korean life within the opening few minutes, literally, but there is another big factor to consider on top of that.

The U.S. has around 28,500 troops spread across over 100 military facilities of all shapes and sizes within the borders of South Korea. There is absolutely no way a war with North Korea could avoid ground forces. The situation was never set up with that in mind or intended.

We dont have the best history fighting in Asia and we are still technicaly still at war with NK.Iran is the hotspot right now but NK is not forgotten.In fact im surprised they havnt pulled some kind of stunt to bring the worlds attention to it for months.This never lasts.

Originally posted by jacknast76
We are technically still at war with North Korea. The Korean conflict never ended with a peace treaty, just an armistice.

You get my point----they don't teach it like we teach it: "eventually, we pulled out, formed the new boundaries, and haven't seen action there since". They teach it like "any day now, the US will bomb us and try to finish this ongoing war." Not the same.

Originally posted by 00nunya00

Originally posted by jacknast76
We are technically still at war with North Korea. The Korean conflict never ended with a peace treaty, just an armistice.

You get my point----they don't teach it like we teach it: "eventually, we pulled out, formed the new boundaries, and haven't seen action there since". They teach it like "any day now, the US will bomb us and try to finish this ongoing war." Not the same.

Well if current events are any sign, that "any day now" is not that far of a stretch to imagine.

BTW I agree 100% with your OP. In that NK is more of a threat to the US/allies than Iran. Neither being a threat to our "freedom" as some would suggest.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000


#2. North Korea has VERY VERY big friends and those friends do NOT want U.S. Combat forces on TWO of their borders at the same time. True, the border Afghanistan shares with China is a tiny one...but don't figure that means China isn't very well aware it's there. China damn near threw the United Nations clear off the peninsula the last time we ran U.S. forces up to the Yalu river. I think they are determined it never happen again...and so there is the 2nd reason I think it brings actual fear to a man like Obama to even consider the idea.
.

China only did it because we were stupid enough to go into their territory when they told us not to. North Korea has no real friends. If the U.S. actually did invade them I doubt China would care as NK is increasingly seen as a liability in China. Russia isn't going to spill blood over it either.

North Korea will not be invaded because they have nothing of value in their country. Nor do we need to do it as it's likely the new Kim will either be rode out on a rail or killed.

I will oversimplify it here.

For the most part NK is under the umbrella of China and by that Nk receives support but also keeps them in some ways under there heal so NK will not do anything to foolish to lose their support therefore as long as we have decent relations with China we do not have to worry about NK stepping too far out of line. In the case of Iran most in government consider them a loose cannon and the fear remains that the fanatical religious group can take power and have access to nuclear weapons. There is a faction within Iran that believes the end of days will bring about their savior and it is there responsibility to bring about that time.

There I extremely oversimplified it but that basically sums it up.

Originally posted by Grimpachi
There is a faction within Iran that believes the end of days will bring about their savior and it is there responsibility to bring about that time.

And there's a big faction in Israel that believes the exact same thing, down to the T. They're even supported in this belief by evangelical US Christians. That makes Israel equal to Iran's unpredictability and volatility and threat to the rational world, right?

reply to post by antonia
Well, ask yourself this. The Chinese have major inroads into Mexico in particular and several other South American nations right now for economic ties. Strong ones. Would we care if the Chinese Military had a full intervention into Mexico? ..right up to our borders, in force?

I mean, Mexico is even having a civil war in many ways... It's not TOO far from what the U.S. would consider intervening in, if Mexico was about 10,000 miles away with their oil. Sad as it is to say.

Oh I think the Chinese would do something in North Korea. The question is, what? I've always felt fairly confident that if it came right down to it and the Chinese saw no choices or time left, they'd handle North Korea themselves to prevent the U.S. from expanding numbers or influence any further in that area. They've become especially touchy about influence areas as they've become more powerful in their own right, IMO.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I think he answered his own question......

4)THEY ALREADY HAVE NUCLEAR WEAPONS AND THE CAPABILITY OF MAKING AND PROCURING MORE!!! They are even close to having reliable missiles to deliver them to MANY ally countries in the region, including our own facilities there

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by antonia

 

Oh I think the Chinese would do something in North Korea. The question is, what? I've always felt fairly confident that if it came right down to it and the Chinese saw no choices or time left, they'd handle North Korea themselves to prevent the U.S. from expanding numbers or influence any further in that area.

What has been said in Chinese media is very different from what you seem to believe. The reunification of Korea is a forgone conclusion there. The problem here is many of you don't realize China has some serious internal problems. Their economy is also in a perilous state.
www.cbsnews.com...

They are already facing social upheaval with a terrible economy coming on top. The don't have time to worry about NK. Even then, they know we will never invade NK. There is no profit in it, so we won't.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
I agree with you entirely about North Korea being far more deserving..IF we feel the irresistible need to go to war against some other nation again. Personally, I think 2 wars in a couple decade period should be our legal limit and it's time to END the second one while we're at it. Yesterday would be fine by me.

As for why? I believe it comes down to 2 basic reasons.

#1. North Korea HAS Nukes....Iran does NOT. The US obviously knows that on both. It makes Iran safe enough to go pound and North Korea did have it's period of serious threat too. I recall that until they proved they had atomic weapons, if not nuclear and they don't need anything special to throw one into Japan. If Iran actually tests a nuke, I think the U.S. will back off faster than you can say it....unless it causes Israel to instantly attack. I still don't buy the fact they are making them at all though...as previously noted in other posts.

Not really all that much of a concern for us. It is a concern for South Korea but the North lacks a delivery system for it to matter to us overall.

#2. North Korea has VERY VERY big friends and those friends do NOT want U.S. Combat forces on TWO of their borders at the same time. True, the border Afghanistan shares with China is a tiny one...but don't figure that means China isn't very well aware it's there. China damn near threw the United Nations clear off the peninsula the last time we ran U.S. forces up to the Yalu river. I think they are determined it never happen again...and so there is the 2nd reason I think it brings actual fear to a man like Obama to even consider the idea.

Getting stomped to mush in a ground war to repeat the Korean Conflict would be political disaster like nothing else could quite match. I'll bet that's been enough to keep a few Presidents from ever seriously considering it as more than retaliation to a North Korean attack on the South. IMO.

This is the big reason. China has a vested interest in keeping North Korea as a buffer zone between it and South Korea. So any action taken against the North has to have Chinese approval. People often lose sight of the fact that the Korean conflict would have been over had MacArthur followed orders and not pushed through to the Chinese border.

Iran can't even take their own oil and turn it into gasoline.

They have no Air Force, no Navy. The only reason the smart people want Iran attacked is to cut China's oil supply.

China's fast tracking in research and may surpass the white man. Gotta cut their energy sources for white man to stay on top.


North Korea......they'll be eating each other this winter.

reply to post by 00nunya00


Your OP requires only one word to answer: CHINA.