Believer turned skeptic. Help a bored dude out.

I'm a little confused. Is this thread about the Phoenix lights, infamous ufologists, or therapy for former 'believers'?

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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by ubeenhad

 

The fact that this supposed proof isn't publicly available should tell you everything. If it isn't public access, it's dangerous. Why would it be dangerous? Because no matter what it is, it's a secret being kept from us.

It doesn't matter what the secret is; it means we're being lied to.

Or it didn't actually happen and it's really easy to say it's being kept a secret because then you can say you are being lied to and insist the lack of any proof is because 'they' are hiding it?

Originally posted by ubeenhad

Originally posted by Orkojoker

Originally posted by ubeenhad
reply to post by Orkojoker

 

How much of the specifics of the details were molded after everyone in town heard about a UFO over town. It was gossip, and many of the stories could have collaborated in the hours/days after the incident.

Impossible to know.

How many recordings of original witness reports still exist of the V shaped craft that went up and down the whole state?

edit on 28-9-2012 by ubeenhad because: (no reason given)

Videos of the "craft"? Zero that I'm aware of.

No, the original phone calls of witness reporting it as its happening.

Oh, my mistake. I don't think I've come across any. Would definitely be interesting to hear though.

Originally posted by itsnotme
reply to post by ubeenhad

 

you have to ask
otherwise you are blindly following
most ufo believers still think greer is there saviour

There are many ufo believers here and I don't recall one that believes that greer is anything but a sham.

Also from your earlier post just to clarify the flares were dropped at 10pm the ufo was at 8pm. The flares were a convenient cover up for the ufo.


I wonder if it happened now with everyone owning cell phones with hd cameras if we would have some nice footage. All those people weren't describing lights in the sky but a massive ship. Whether it was aliens of some secret military project I don't know.

And to the op who used to be a believer and now is a skeptic, why don't you try to be both.

Originally posted by ubeenhad
Couple things.

Phoenix Lights.
I was born in phoenix, and was there when the event happened tho I was young and didn't see it myself. I remember hearing about it all growing up and it was just another conspiracy story. Till I read an account from the ex-mayer in a UFO magazine years later. Learning the details of this massive sighting is what stirred my interest in Ufology.

Why do almost no documentaries mention that there were flares dropped by airplanes, and were videotaped as well? and why do most of them conveniently forget to mention that it was actually two events, two completely different descriptions, and no video exists of the huge triangular craft? What about the only person who saw the triangular craft with something other than his naked eye, a telescope, claim without a doubt it was airplanes flying in formation?

I invite you to contradict this info, I would love to learn more that could give the story more credit; tho this is not the main question im asking. im more looking for why documentaries leave out this type of information. I can safely say that most people in the professional science community would immediately be skeptical of all the info since some was left out, and in turn discredit anyone who was part of presenting the limited information. This is a major problem if you ever want full disclosure. Ufologists have to start presenting the information without bias even if it makes the story less interesting. In the long run, if there really is merit to all of this, it would be much more beneficial.
If they are just trying to play the governments game, and think its the only way to win the public over, I think they are wrong. To win the public, you gotta win the scientists. Or atleast a good portion of them. And it will be easy with real proof. No one wants to find out we have intelligent life with technology vastly superior to our own visting us all the time than scientists. Its like a ticket to the future.

edit on 28-9-2012 by ubeenhad because: (no reason given)

I am contradicting the info. There is at least one black and white and really grainy video which I have in one of my UFO videotapes from ages ago showing what is claimed to be a triangular UFO. What is shown is a series of lights traveling in a chevron formation and you can tell it's human aircraft 'cause they don't hold the triangular shape for long, it's reminiscent of the Hudson Valley sightings which one can tell it's human aircraft.

As for the "lights" themselves there is uncontested proof that the so-called UFOs in formation are as explained, military flares. Additionally, in one of the better videos shown one can see the strobe of a human craft.

The Phoenix "lights" have been blown out of proportion just as the Roswell "crash" for which there is no evidence of an alien craft. Phoenix: no evidence of anything non-human.

Armchair hindsight: Nobody in the governor's office, no ufologist, no UFO buff, no smart kid--nobody at all filed a request for the relevant FAA and weather radar data under the Freedom of Information Act. Next time, let's do that.

reply to post by xpoq47


elaborate?

The Phoenix Lights. The governor said his office was going to investigate. Yet requesting the FAA and weather radar data for the timeframe and area up to 41,000 feet and having one of MUFON's radar experts examine the data could have settled the matter. Not making such a request is a failure of every interested party who knew of the incident at the time. Such a request has to be made within 15 calendar days, I think, but that should be checked.

Another failing is when a reporter has a chance but doesn’t ask a government spokesman who is discussing UFOs on camera if he/she has personally ever seen a UFO. One Air Force Officer 20 years after becoming a long-time government spokesman on the subject was directly asked on TV and said that yes, he did have clear sighting along with other Air Force personnel, all of whom filed official reports, about three years before he was assigned to Project Blue Book. Even so, the public apparently yawned it off. But still, one should put these people on the spot and see what happens.

reply to post by ubeenhad


Just because one (mainstream) case of many may be in certain aspects controversial doesn't mean that there aren't cases which hold some truth. Instead of trying to focus on the past, which is covered in thick layers of smoke, focus on the present and on the future - the now. Understanding what is currently happening and what way occur in the future (depending on your perception of time) is far more important and ultimately could also provide you with answers you seek in the past.

Whatever the nature of the Phoenix Lights incident may be, in the end it is irrelevant. Its outcome, becoming possibly one of the biggest mainstream UFO events in history, is where your focus should be. Everything has a purpose and happens for a reason. Are you on the right timeline?...