Italian Seismologists Could Get Four Years in Prison

Originally posted by RussianScientists
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

No... they actually got up in front of an audience and told them that there was no danger.

Being supposed earthquake experts, they needed to act like real scientists instead of big mouth idiots which endangered peoples lives; 309 dead because those people believed in them.

I have to agree with you.

What is the point in wasting money in paying them to do the research and studies, just for them to then blatantly lie to the public. They aren't paid to lie - that's a politician's job.

There is too much corruption and too many liars in this world as it is, we are drowning in deceit - so it makes a change to see a few of them not only exposed, but punished too.

Not only did they fail to warn fellow human beings of any danger, but they bare-faced lied about it, and hundreds of people died as a result.

Yes, it is right that they be brought to justice IMO, what they did was criminal.

Originally posted by MDDoxs
reply to post by RussianScientists

 

I will agree to proclaim the statements they made as fact is truly not justifiable and will agree with you that some punishment is in order.

However, I would ask the following; would this public outcry be the exact same if a earthquake occurred and only one person died?

Don't get me wrong, the deaths are a horrible tragedy, but perhaps due a combination of contributing factors the death toll increased to the amount it did

It should be the same if only one person died.

Here is a metaphor that brings the picture into focus.

You can't tell a child that doesn't know about the world that its okay to go and cross the street on their own when you are standing in a building where you can't see the street; especially if there has recently been more than usual traffic (in this case the extra traffic was recent earthquakes).

IF the child gets killed because you said it was okay to cross the street, are you not guilty in other peoples mind, as well as your own for the child being killed? The child believed in you as an expert of what goes on in the world. Did it matter that it was one child, or a group of children? Should there be punishment or not for someone telling the child that they could cross the street on their own?

I believe you can see my point.

Originally posted by RussianScientists

Originally posted by WanderingThe3rd
Thats so retarded

There still isn't any good predictions methods for earthquakes, so how could you ever find someone guilty for of such pre·pos·ter·ous reasons.

Unbelievable

No, indeed, your reply is based on BS from people that you believe in, because they state what they have stated, making you believe they are correct, and you have never challenged any of them; you tag along as a Sheeple, therefore you are a Sheeple helping them disseminate incorrect ideas; therefore people die needlessly in earthquakes with your help. Until you challenge those that say earthquakes aren't detectable before they strike, those in charge will just keep running with the ball.

My methods of early detection of latent energy before earthquakes strike are scientific in that its easily reproducable all over the world, that in fact the detection of energy build up of earthquakes as low as M1.5 has been proven, and that earthquakes of all magnitudes can be mapped before they strike.

Included in that map of any magnitude of earthquake will be its exact epicenter, exact depth to hypocenter/foci and its exact strike across the countryside; besides they can only occur at those locations when there is energy detected.

They really don't need to be predicted, they only need to be detected and then let the public know when there is danger from a large one that could kill or harm people. There is nothing preposterous about my knowledge, its scientific, its reproducable day-after-day, 24 hours a day, anywhere in the world; and that my Sheeple friend is believable since it is the truth.

maybe you should try to help enlighten people about the subject then

reply to post by RussianScientists

That article gives such small snippets of what the scientists said that it's hard to evaluate if they are guilty of anything or not just from that evidence. I haven't researched their exact statements yet but I might. Anyway, based on this excerpt from the OP article:

only 2 percent of small earthquake clusters predicted a big temblor.

At the controversial March 31 meeting in L'Aquila, earth scientist Enzo Boschi, now a defendant in the case, acknowledged the uncertainty, calling a large earthquake "unlikely," but saying that the possibility could not be excluded.

I would not dispute that 2% is unlikely. What he probably should have said was an exact statement of the historical data, meaning he should have said something like: "past data shows a larger quake occurs in 1 of 50 of cases like this. But earthquake prediction methods are unreliable so we have no way of knowing in advance which one of the 50 tremor series will result in a larger quake".

Scientists are trained to be careful in what they say and in what claims they make. This doesn't mean they can't get sloppy, but I'd be surprised if they were really guilty of anything. The only way I'd find them guilty is if for example, they had secretly hidden data and there were e-mails between them saying that the probability was say 60%, and they just completely lied and said it was only 2%. Yes that would be criminal. But I don't think that's what happened here...it's probably just a misunderstanding, which happens all the time when laypeople try to interpret remarks of scientists.

Originally posted by WanderingThe3rd

Originally posted by RussianScientists

Originally posted by WanderingThe3rd
Thats so retarded

There still isn't any good predictions methods for earthquakes, so how could you ever find someone guilty for of such pre·pos·ter·ous reasons.

Unbelievable

No, indeed, your reply is based on BS from people that you believe in, because they state what they have stated, making you believe they are correct, and you have never challenged any of them; you tag along as a Sheeple, therefore you are a Sheeple helping them disseminate incorrect ideas; therefore people die needlessly in earthquakes with your help. Until you challenge those that say earthquakes aren't detectable before they strike, those in charge will just keep running with the ball.

My methods of early detection of latent energy before earthquakes strike are scientific in that its easily reproducable all over the world, that in fact the detection of energy build up of earthquakes as low as M1.5 has been proven, and that earthquakes of all magnitudes can be mapped before they strike.

Included in that map of any magnitude of earthquake will be its exact epicenter, exact depth to hypocenter/foci and its exact strike across the countryside; besides they can only occur at those locations when there is energy detected.

They really don't need to be predicted, they only need to be detected and then let the public know when there is danger from a large one that could kill or harm people. There is nothing preposterous about my knowledge, its scientific, its reproducable day-after-day, 24 hours a day, anywhere in the world; and that my Sheeple friend is believable since it is the truth.

maybe you should try to help enlighten people about the subject then

Your wish is my command: www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Earthquakes, volcanoes and geysers build up DETECTABLE pressure before they strike.

That detectable pressure is measurable.

The zone at the surface of the earth (epicenter) of most pressure is easily detected and located on any of the three listed above before they react violently.

The exact depth (hypocenter or foci) of most pressure is easily detected and located on any of the above before they react violently.

In other words, scientifically you can tell 100% when there is danger already present, or not, before the violent reaction can occur. Scientifically you can determine the magnitudes ahead of time. IF a magnitude that is deemed dangerous for the location is detected ahead of time, a warning should be given.

reply to post by RussianScientists

I don't dispute that. We know where major quakes are likely to occur based on the stresses. But, we don't know WHEN they will occur. We may have records that say they occur in a certain location on average every 30 years for example, but just like the average family has 2.2 children and no family has 2.2 children, no earthquake occurs exactly at the "average" interval (or it would be an extremely rare occurrence). It may be 10 years or 50 years until the next earthquake. In California they know some big ones are coming at the San Andreas fault, but they can't say when. Can you? What are your accurate predictions for that?

Predicting Earthquakes Is Impossible

The Northridge earthquake--magnitude 6.8--caused 60 deaths and billions of dollars in property damage. Immediately after the earthquake, the rumor began to spread that seismologists at the California Institute of Technology had predicted an even larger earthquake. Caltech's response was that "Caltech cannot release predictions since it is impossible to predict earthquakes."

The vast majority of the world's seismologists think that earthquakes cannot be reliably and accurately predicted.

Despite great progress in seismological research, no physical law or mathematical formula now exists for reliably predicting the time, place and size of an earthquake....

The difficulty of predicting earthquakes is further underscored by the Parkfield Earthquake Prediction Experiment on the San Andreas Fault. Several predictions have been issued, but all have been false alarms. ...

Charles F. Richter, developer of the earthquake magnitude scale, commented in 1977, "Since my first attachment to seismology, I have had a horror of predictions and of predictors. Journalists and the general public rush to any suggestion of earthquake prediction like hogs toward a full trough. [Prediction] provides a happy hunting ground for amateurs, cranks and outright publicity-seeking fakers."

Twenty years later, Richter's words still apply. The media continue to publish favorable reports on prediction claims that are not generally accepted by the scientific community.

The public, media and government authorities must be clearly informed that earthquake prediction in its popularly understood sense is impossible at present, that all efforts to date have been failures and that there are no reasonable prospects in the near future.

Since they apparently said they were safe, in some ways this is an interesting trial, because many scientists lie, and misrepresent truth, they work for ELITES and don't give accurate information.

Basically if 2012 is an event, that they knew about, and many people survive (and I'm not saying it is), alot of people will be tried in court.

Just an example of a scenario, world wide.

This court case is setting a precedence, at least in Italy, and is probably making them pay attention, they're not off hooks, you can't just sell your soul to the corporation.

I don't know if the scientists are guilty, but I'm pretty sure they shouldn't be the only ones on trial. What about the politicians who knew there could be a big earthquake at some future time and failed to upgrade the building codes accordingly? What about contractors who cut corners and didn't meet the existing standards? What about homeowners who did their own shoddy construction or hired unlicensed and untrained workers to pile up rocks and call it a house? These four scientists are scapegoats. The trial is intended to put all the blame on them so everybody else can pretend to be innocent.

If the scientists announced that a big earthquake was likely to happen in the next week, how many people would have camped outside for a week? And what if it didn't happen? Would the scientists be prosecuted for crying, "Wolf!"

reply to post by RussianScientists


Thats not right since Earth science has been set back by lack of adequate sounding
equipment and studies. Denying the ether makes for inadequate science.

Originally posted by RussianScientists
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

No... they actually got up in front of an audience and told them that there was no danger.

Being supposed earthquake experts, they needed to act like real scientists instead of big mouth idiots which endangered peoples lives; 309 dead because those people believed in them.

Civil damages and possibly strip them of certifications they have (If there was actual wrong doing but I don't even agree with that). Beyond that, it doesn't seem like a criminal matter, nor could it be. A crime is only really a crime if it could be done before technology.

Steal someones money? Yes.
Harm someone? Yes.
Call for rain when it snowed... No.

My God! this IS insane....
Burn the witch.

this will make ALL scientists as Evil !
we are going Back to the dark ages.

This will discredit ALL scientists.

I'm reading down the thread and the replies to me..and I'm just totally baffled.

First, lets remember, we're talking about a natural event no man on Earth can predict or do better than the accuracy of a Ouija board at a frat party for getting 50/50 bets right on whether a mid-range quake spawns another or not. Truth be known, it's not even remotely close to 50/50 though since only a small fraction of big ones demonstrate a recognizable pre-quake pattern. The VAST VAST majority of little quakes lead to......absolutely nothing.

With that in mind... I'm just baffled. So....Scientists here say what Scientists have been saying world wide for decades now. Don't worry about this small series of quakes, it's NOT a threat. OOOOOPS.... Wrong this time. They, and those like them, were RIGHT 999 times for the last 1,000 times when they said those words to prevent silly panic or people from getting sick out of pure stress and anxiety. 100% right...until now.

So... Rather than..as I'd suggested, we step back and learn from this...nope..people died in an Earthquake (My God...I'm shocked..it's not like people EVER die in Earthquakes...it's ONLY because they made a bad guess right?) we sent the Scientists to prison.

Yup... This will just have every scientist in the world chomping at the bit to share either a REAL WARNING....or to debunk one badly given. I'm sure they'll be more anxious than ever.....after all, unlike EVER BEFORE....being wrong isn't just a professional cost now. You're going to Prison and losing everything you ever had in freedom and life for that mistake.

So..however ONE situation may look? The actions taken here will effect FAR beyond this one case..and in the worst way at perhaps the WORST time in our history to be telling Scientists to shut up and stop speculating, by threat of law and prosecution. I'll bet the message was heard..LOUD AND CLEAR..too.

reply to post by RussianScientists


What evidence is there they KNEW a big quake would happen and purposefully said nothing. Then tell me what they had to gain by hiding evidence. Typically being right is much better for a person's career.

I find it funny those Italian scientists are being held accountable.

Canada just fired all their scientists who were screaming about the ocean dying and what's happening to the fish. Political pressure from the fishermen who'll suck the oceans dry to keep making a buck....trumped science up there.

And in America Executive Powers were used so American scientists can't tell the public about radiation releases that could hurt the public. The Clean Water Act by Congress also made it Federal Law no public water workers can tell the public if something went bad and the drinking water aint safe.

Must keep the economy going at all costs....America muzzled its scientists and they've been packing up and leaving the country. Taking their money with them to......well they'll have a better chance of survival in the Southern Hemisphere....that's where all the smart people are running to right now.

Just read that they got 6 years.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Six Italian scientists and an ex-government official have been sentenced to six years in prison over the 2009 deadly earthquake in L'Aquila.

A regional court found them guilty of multiple manslaughter. Prosecutors said the defendants gave a falsely reassuring statement before the quake, while the defence maintained there was no way to predict major quakes.

The 6.3 magnitude quake devastated the city and killed 309 people.