Two things......Thing one and Thing Two. Dr. Suess.

Two things. That's all. Just two things. Call me lazy, I am not sourcing this. There are plenty of sources for what I propose right here in ATS threads, as well as on many other links. Yes, perhaps I am lazy. Don't want to lost my train of thought--and that right there, train, and the industrialization implications that go with it. Sorry, burning brain syndrome, in which you have a thought, it fires along synapses, and there is such a burst of agreement and synchronicity that all supporting evidence affirms while leaving you at the exact same time? Anyone else ever experience this???
Having said that, in replying to the post, lots of people post ideas fueling threads without links, etc., and get intelligible responses, so don't reply with "put down the crack pipe," or "you're tripping, dude," etc... I am not a dude, not smoking crack and not tripping
Now that we have that out of the way, there are two things I would like to discuss, prevalent ideas on this discussion board, need not look for or use search to find the evidence of all of our meanderings regarding them, with plenty of personal (anecdotal) experience, and research links, hard and soft science, to back this up, two things that outstrip, trump, and game change (insert your favorite term for what I mean here) every other thread on conspiracy that exists here.
First: Time. Whether it exists or does not, whatever it is or that you consider that it is (notice that I nod to PERCEPTION here, as it is penultimate, yet not omniprescent in what I mean). The guts of time, or what we consider it to be, the radioactive decay of particle matter.....for that is, time-wise what the brightest brains among us have used to judge the passage of events and ordering of them, etc.
And yet, having said that, we can all agree that this is simply still a matter of perception. For if you control:
EMPIRICAL evidence--what is perceived that it is what is SEEN: informs you as to what is "real" and what is "imaginary."

It is really just that simple, isn't it? If I can make you see or not see something, then I can control what you consider to be "true," can I not? And then If I can control your perception of "time," then I can reset it, spin it, do absolutely anything I want with it, and therefore, totally define what we consider "reality," can't I?

When I cruise the recent topics, it is always with these two things in mind. IE: We may be repeating things, and there may be some pretending to experience what one, unique, individual is experiencing, and there may also be others who are TRULY thinking and percieving that they experience what someone else has already experienced---even just so there will be an agreement that "we are all one," for we have all experienced the same, etc. and on and on similar in this vein....pretended, induced or otherwise. And that is a whole other thread, for this does happen, is important, but still in the end, despite real or induced (which at some point ceases to matter, for if you are experiencing that pain, etc., induced or otherwise, it is still "real" to you at that moment, and so you have suffered it--and by our very definitions, we judge then, that, having been through that, we are owed something for it, and someone must pay for having done it to us, etc. So we can outline this experiential information as pretended/acted, real/induced, original..... Under the circumstances I have described, all are possible, and that, again, may be a whole other thread. For many of us know that we experience manipulation of our minds, yes, but also events which happen to us as discreet units, entities, and our narratives having experienced that are robbed from us, even as they are induced, to create a whole other life for another--and nanotechnology begs this question: is it then an AI experience, artificial in nature, and therefore, less "real,"
and judged by a different standard.....

I have outlined some ideas for a discussion. That is all. We all have experience in reading about time slips, etc. and know the circular pattern of what we perceive as time, here. Take the threads, for instance, about time "slips," and combine them with the threads about dead celebrities that seem to be alive again. In the comics in the newspaper, you will find comics that allude directly to a "do-over." Hmmmm. Are we gaining or suffering from this? We can't even discuss that, because we will first be divided by the argument that it didn't happen, or we should prove it, etc..... Think you will get my drift here.

And then the second: I judge, as an individual, from what my anecdotal and empirical experience is. This is what defines all of us, what we use to live, to think by, to go by....I was thinking today how the word of God, supposedly cautions us against judging, and yet, every day and every moment causes us in this life to operate, even for our own safety or our children's (the most defenseless among us), requires we have discernment, which is nothing less than judgement.

Having said that, if that judgement is informed by a manipulated perception of existence and "reality," and that is subject to control, then absolutely nothing is rendered valid, is it? Yes, we can try, strive, with the best of our efforts, sobriety, control, etc., to deserve and perceive what is "true," but in the given quantifiers, nothing would be anymore, would it? And thus, the most defenseless among us would be subjectified, with no ability for those with the good intentions (and remember, why is it said that hell is paved with those); to protect, without being made the opposite, even while you strive to be exceptional and protective of innocence?

Do you get this?? Is it not crazy making? For no matter what you do or strive to do, believe, act upon and therefore, protect, with control of these two things: perception of time, and perception, itself,: we can be made to appear to be anything, absolutely, that whomever is in control of those things, wishes us to be.......

Thank you for reading.

deepthought.newsvine.com... 22682-synthetic-telepathy-the-hidden-truth

Okay, having said all I did above, this is my first link for source regarding the question of your perception.

This regards controlling how you filter or percieve your environment, and how this may be controlled, through the "interface" we all use to filter, percieve, and interact with our environment. I can provide many such links to patents for control of our "devices," for what I described above we use them for, but if you do not see them in this light, then you do not see the overwhelming control placed upon your experience.
link

Part of what I seek, here, is to show you how controlled our perceptions and interactions are. And this is all it takes, to bend the light around (creating invisibility) or put light upon (illuminating), what you experience, perceive, and thus believe, and therefore, respond to, believe, react to, argue for or against.....

Having said that, it creates innocence, guilt, pain, pleasure, love, dedication, loyalty, rejection, hate.....
these are powerful emotions and cause us to react and act, which is then causative of events, on small scales and larger ones, ever larger........

all from your perceived judgement......your dedication and rejection......

and then ask yourself.......what you are doing, what we are doing, what we are acting upon, judging, accepting, rejecting, loving, hating, living for, dying for, sacrificing for.......it's all in what you believe, and you judge that by what you see and feel.....
There is much talk of God and Jesus, heaven and hell, on this forum. But it truly all is a matter of perception is it not, from what I have proposed to you? You have been sold "empirical," and then sold devices to interface with it. And it may be, that none of that is real, but only a configuration for your belief to get you to act accordingly....

reply to post by tetra50


Oh, and BTW, with what I have described, being dependent, increasingly, upon an information source that is malleable, historically and factually, that can both quantumly and through a perception of time and facts, control all the above: the computer, an Artificial Intelligence, which we all depend upon increasingly to interface its given reality with us so we can FUNCTION....it tells us what is, what was, what time it is, etc....., and perhaps even independent, seemingly, of it, out and about, not having recognized nanotechnology and what exists for control inside and outside of us, our "discreet units," which we call our bodies, it then becomes a quantum and hyper controlling device through what is described above, within and without our perspective......

Having said that, how do you even know what space is, what the sun you look at is and depend upon, etc.
And with that said, there was a thread today about what's so wrong with a one world government, seeking, supposedly to unite everyone, end war, etc....

Because what gave you this visage, also gave you the pain, death and disease that made that "one world" congiguration possible.

Jesus, God, I hope we AREN'T all one. For if we are, there is little hope, I fear.

reply to post by tetra50


HMMmmmm. interesting. guess i am not as smart as everyone here. There is something called a "shun." I was told about it a long time ago. You can try to fight, but you will be shunned. What you tell, truth be told or not, will be rejected just because it comes from you.....
I never really believed that. But, I guess it may be true. All about perception, so you will choose what you are designed to choose. Has nothing to do with right or wrong, intellectual or stupid, sourced or way out there......just what I said. So sad, and just goes to show the truth absolutely has ended and no longer matters, we are stuck in a looping beauty pageant. LOL

pitifully, bumping my own thread????? anybody???? okay. Too stupid to interact with the rest of the intellectuals.....

bumping my own thread again shamelessly, wondering if anyone wishes to read and reply?

reply to post by tetra50

again, would somebody read this, or not.......

Originally posted by tetra50
reply to post by tetra50

 

again, would somebody read this, or not.......

I read it. Your newsvine link leads to an error message.
Try rewriting it and pretend you are writing to someone with A.D.D. If you go on like this it's got to be REALLY good.
Your question/statement is somewhat nebulous.

reply to post by tanda7


deepthought.newsvine.com...

Hope this works. I don't need to read it, I wrote it. If it doesn't speak to you, so be it.

reply to post by tanda7


Sorry. Go on like this???? Have you read a lot of threads here? Nebulous?????
Are you in Orion??? Little joke here, about the "Great Nebula in Orion."
I think my point is rather obvious......
going on or otherwise.
There is NO going on, if you have not considered that many threads here allude to induced reality, and having said this, if it is true, and we accept it, then no other thread on conspiracy makes a lot of sense, for inducement MEANS, by definition, if we speak the same language, that you are controlled, to disseminate and interpret certain information, thereby controlling your response......
Need I explain this more.
Perhaps, I should just stick to the math.
1+1=3?????

reply to post by tetra50

I meant I read it.
Apparently I'm not the only one who finds it vague.
Sum it all up for me.
Don't get me wrong, I'm interested in quantum physics and the mechanics of reality. I'm intrigued.

reply to post by tanda7

I just did. But definitely, you are smarter. Sorry, I didn't speak to you. Really.

Thanks for the backdoor nod, as I in no way mentioned physics, quantum or otherwise.
But yes, this definitely addresses it, in a theoretical, philosophical, minus mathematics sense. Perhaps I should have addressed the lacking of the language of mathematics here, as I addressed it, albeit indirectly.......
I wanted solely, to deal with the basis for all science, EMPIRICAL evidence, and the lack of validity, thereof.
Having said that, hope I fixed that link for you.
For if what is described in that link is true, NO empirical that can be trusted any longer exists.
I seek to have a discussion about what would follow, if we accept that is true. For we are prone to get bogged down in IF that is true, and thereby, totally miss the bigger picture of what that would represent, then....

reply to post by tetra50
It seems to me that "reality" will seek to accommodate consciousness, regardless of the empirical evidence.
Belief is as much an influence on reality as facts.
Most people do not appear to enter the conversation because of a desire to mold their opinions, but to reinforce their beliefs. All it takes to validate a belief is collaboration, regardless of the quality of the source. That is why I hesitate to ever try and convince anyone of anything. It's pointless. Conversing to gather info for the purpose of developing a belief system is worthwhile. otherwise it's just validation seeking. Evidence is useless when dealing with the zealot.

Originally posted by tanda7
reply to post by tetra50

 

It seems to me that "reality" will seek to accommodate consciousness, regardless of the empirical evidence.
Belief is as much an influence on reality as facts.
Most people do not appear to enter the conversation because of a desire to mold their opinions, but to reinforce their beliefs. All it takes to validate a belief is collaboration, regardless of the quality of the source. That is why I hesitate to ever try and convince anyone of anything. It's pointless. Conversing to gather info for the purpose of developing a belief system is worthwhile. otherwise it's just validation seeking. Evidence is useless when dealing with the zealot.

edit on 29-9-2012 by tanda7 because: sp

Thank you. I find your comments directly pertinent. Belief. Ahh yes. But what informs said belief? What I seek here, is to discuss this, and your referencing belief and the importance of it to how we progress or not exemplifies what is so threatening, for what I propose is how tenuous what our very belief hinges upon. And again, you are nailing it....to challenge not only what we base our belief upon, but what the belief is, can be so frightening, challenging, that for those of us that understand its tenuousness, and malleability, it becomes pointless to argue the nature of factual knowledge, mathematics, "accepted science and dogmatic evidence thereof," and therefore, conspiracies regarding such.....

I am not seeking to reword what you said, Tanda, but if I understood you, this is my entire point.. And therefore, regardless and despite my evident lack of communication for you, you do reaffirm what it is I seek to say here.

It seems to me that "reality" will seek to accommodate consciousness, regardless of the empirical evidence.

reply to post by tanda7


However, recognition of consciousness is a whole different matter, and has absolutely nothing to do with empirical evidence, within the scheme of what I suggest above, suggesting that there may be no validity absolutely to anything empirical.

Consciousness, then, takes on a whole new meaning, and we are challenged to define what that may, then be.....and what the constraints of our given, perhaps, induced experience, relate to within those constraints, and have us redefining the term consciousness....
is it what we feel?
and what if what we feel is perhaps induced, as well? Are we and is consciousness a result and defining and expression of what our present existence feels like? That is determined by our bodies, is it not, and their quanitification of our existence and our brains' interpretation of it.

Was the link fixed for you. I can provide many others, in which not only our minds quantifying what I describe above, but our bodies' sensation, perhaps, is induced, as well.
The point is, if all is induced and subjecct and undergoing control mechanisms, then there is no empirical anymore, and then our definitions, representations, interpretations of reality, judgement due to, etc., are then subject to someone else and what they wish us to see, experience, react to, etc.....

This thread is about this being given, already, and taking that knowledge and understanding of the situation to the next degree. In other words, if you can't trust any of your senses, how do we judge what is real from here, and then determine how we should then act????

I want to do the "right" thing. I assume what that is based upon my understanding of "history," and "current events," ie, what is happening now. If all that is induced, then where do I go from here. I hate to invoke this name, but WHAT IF I don't really know who Hitler was, and the truth behind the war, then what now??? Just an example.

What if, I don't understand nor perceive the truth behind Hiroshima--just like Hitler, this one is very hard......for we have images and knowledge we have been inculcated with, given what I describe above and the assumptions we must then make if that is true, but that is the whole point. What if, everyone of those very difficult and painful images and inculcations and perceptions about that HISTORY are totally INDUCED, respun, given our predliction for wanting to not make anyone suffer???
This is the most shocking thing about what I describe. If all evidence is FED to us, and our psyches prepped and manipulated, and the story then bled into us, but not what really happened, then we are manipulated by our best attributes as humans......
and this, I find, thinking along these lines, the most horrifying possibility, if you follow what I am saying.
Add to that, no one wants to think down that road, and our predilection for security, safety and wanting to be right, it would be wholly easy to convince us, if indeed, one took over our ability to SEE, and then judge....would it not???
And who would want to read about, accept, and understand that?????

reply to post by tetra50
Sorry for the rocky start to this conversation. It's funny how much must be said at times just to get to the common ground.
Anyhow,
Just as every person has a different life experience, each person will have a slightly different tendency towards an understanding of the "why and how"' But the internal dialogue of any conscious entity will color the experience of "reality" for that person. For example, let's say one day out of the blue, your grandma or whoever gives you a Ford Taurus. Before that day you had not given that particular automobile a thought, now you see them everywhere. Is there suddenly more of them? Of course not, the difference is the life experience has changed, and therefore the tendency to notice.
What you think about will affect your experience of what is real.
Because of this we can be very generous and say "every point of view has some validity".

What is more important? to be correct, or to get what you want?
I have some interest in Gnosticism, from my studies of this subject, I have come to appreciate the power of faith. (please do not confuse this with anything of a religious nature, personally I feel religion is the antithesis of healthy curiosity)
Of course, all of this is my opinion alone.

There was a thread about what it would mean if Einstein was wrong: This was my response, and I find it cogent, here, as well, with what I am trying to say. As there are many who would meet what I say with mathematics and science....

the speed of light, redefined by the speed of certain particles we apparently cannot see nor judge!!!OMG
What does this mean.
When the observable becomes induceable.....what that might mean????Perhaps, we have been led down a road, and would we know the address, because what I suggest above means whatever you read it to be is, I hate this phrase, wait for it, whatever someone wanted you to think, so that the rules and the system by which they were introduced and justified were, totally, SCEWED
Where does that leave us.

There was a thread about math, a rant about YOU are not the SMARTEST.....Look it up.. It's worth the read. And I thought, let's talk about algebraic variables. What does variable mean? Having said that, let's talk about linguistsics.....letters add up to words that only work in a language of representation and definition because we agree.
AGREE, that certain representations mean what we agree.
The same is true of math. Numbers are a language, a representative language, in which we agree we have and observe a chair, and another chair, in a certain room, which adds up to two chairs. 1 like thing and another equals two like things. This is my explaining a mathematical assumption based upon language and numbers.
Oh boy. Do you see all the loopholes within what I just described?

Then: Let's take variables. In algebraic math, meaning 2(2 chairs which we see), and x( which as a VARIABLE could, illustrative of the definition of variable, mean anything, at any given moment, for it VARIES)....is X the rug on the floor, or the floor itself?

Just sayin'.......
if I had a code opposite from the letters of representation, what would what I spelled out here even mean????


And, in short, in answer to your question, it means that we have been literally sold a bill of goods, designed to keep us arguing over obfuscating "facts" so that we would never understand what is happening, truly, if we couldn't
" do the math," judged wanting as addicts while someone next door was shooting up, so to speak.
Are you ready for that metaphor, and reality, in a world where reality, itself, is an induced, up for grabs concept, to get you to judge, act, feel, etc......
Because this is WHERE YOU ARE....

I laugh, because i can no longer cry, my tears are spent.......for there is truth, but no one may ever know......and so many, here, will suffer as a result.

Originally posted by tanda7
reply to post by tetra50

 

Sorry for the rocky start to this conversation. It's funny how much must be said at times just to get to the common ground.
Anyhow,
Just as every person has a different life experience, each person will have a slightly different tendency towards an understanding of the "why and how"' But the internal dialogue of any conscious entity will color the experience of "reality" for that person. For example, let's say one day out of the blue, your grandma or whoever gives you a Ford Taurus. Before that day you had not given that particular automobile a thought, now you see them everywhere. Is there suddenly more of them? Of course not, the difference is the life experience has changed, and therefore the tendency to notice.
What you think about will affect your experience of what is real.
Because of this we can be very generous and say "every point of view has some validity".

What is more important? to be correct, or to get what you want?
I have some interest in Gnosticism, from my studies of this subject, I have come to appreciate the power of faith.
Of course, all of this is my opinion alone.

edit on 29-9-2012 by tanda7 because: (no reason given)

I find your opinion here very interesting, and no need to apologize. I understand your point; we notice what we experience and already take note of, through what we have experienced.
This is the circle unto itself, is it not?
But, if someone, anyone, wishes us to notice a certain thing, is this just not another way to skew our perception?
This is my point, all the many ways our brains obviously operate, which are self evident, and how this may obviously used to control, induce and skew:problem, reaction, solution....