Wally World, your Terror Superstore

First off, technology only makes the "job" of a terrorist a little easier. That said, any terrorist that is serious would have no problem doing his "job" without any of the affore mentioned stuff. There are so many ways to commit a terrorist act that would require NO technologically advanced stuff. If they are determined, there is no way to stop them.
Also, I live in Iowa and Ammonium Nitrate is not that hard to get.

I agree completely, the IRA didn't have too many problems in the 80s without mobile phones and other modern techs. If a terrorist is in your country and wants to destroy something, the only thing that will stop them is a competent intelligence service and a diligent police force.

i think wall-mart is evil

Shoafy, getting Ammonium Nitrate may be a little harder than you'd think. Go ask for some in a garden center and watch the response.

Seriously, I think Dept of Ag requires a signature and a handling permit for more than 5 pounds. Prove me wrong, though, if you can. All that you buy will also contain tagents, little microscopic chips with serial numbers and RFID's that will set off a metal detector, yet are not magnetic.

No, you cannot just go into a store and buy a gun in the US. Many states now have instantaneous background checks. Everywhere, you must leave a record and positive ID. And it's a 5 day wait (with the local PD getting a copy of your info) on pistols.

IF technology is so irrelevant, then why is the US Army so obsessed with it?


For that matter, why are the Ayatollahs of Iran???

1. You don't need ID to buy nails. Nails are a terrorist's best friend.

2. To my knowledge, you do not need ID to buy ammunition.

A little creative carpentry, and your local PD has a nightmare. THAT is terrorism.

DE

The reason there have been no terror attacks since 911 is because there are no REAL terrorists. The reason I have come to this conclusion is simple.

If anybody spends half an hour searching google(I wont provide links, you can find them yourselves) you can find out how to build all manner of explosive devices and the ingredients needed to make them.

Lets use Ammonium Nitrate as an example. Purchasing small amounts(through different hardware stores, pool supply companies and agricultural outlets) over a period of twelve months would give you enough to make a huge bomb. Everthing you need is readily available and purchasing through different companies would not raise suspicion.

Now consider the fact that 3 years has passed and not one attack. Not even a little one. Doesn't anybody find that strange? Not even a little bit?

If I was a real terrorist the last three years would have been a free for all, blowing up things all over the place.

But it hasn't happened, simply because there are no civilian terrorists. The REAL terrorists are in the White House stirring up fear of a non-existant threat.

Just my opinion.

There are two scenarios:

1. There are no terrorists. We ahev been lied to, deceived and conned into a state of paranoia.

2. There ARE terrorists, but the United States intelligence services are jsut so damn proficient, not even one has made a sucessful attack on home soil since 9/11... not even one has attempted!

Personally, I think the first is much more likely than the second. Any moron with an 8th-grade chemistry education and the will can make a dozen different bombs. There have been no sniper attacks, no acts of violence, nothing. Not even a peep from even domestic terrorists.

Now, i supported the war in afghanistan. I believe that AQ was terminally crippled there. But now, another war has given rise to more terrorists because the US got greedy.

DE

[edit on 17-10-2004 by DeusEx]

The French and Aussies claiming that they shut down this terror network on their own, without the USA:

www.smh.com.au...

Or this terrorist cell out of Baden-Baden, that had planned to attack a French target over Christmas 2003?

www.antialqaeda.com...
Or this article from 2002, about the German and Dutch intelligence forces working on the background of the terror team responsible for 9-11:

billstclair.com...

Or how about this recent trial in Germany, where the German state claims a defendant was involved in 9-11, and the US GOVERNMENT supplies information obtained from sources held at GUANTANAMO that the guy was in fact innocent:

www.dw-world.de...

How do you explain these articles, some of them by quite well-known writers and international newspapers?

Are they all being forced to do this by USA? It's hard for me to imagine France and Germany playing ball with Bush for any reason, unless it was literally life and death.

And what about the last article, where US intel is trying to clear a suspect the Germans have put on trial for 9-11? Is THAT being manufactured by the USA?

I'm not saying we are getting the whole truth, psychoses, or that the truth is not being "protected by a bodyguard of lies" as Churchill put it.

But I don't see how your view explains the evidence I've just posted.

I agree with many of you who have posted that it is really pretty simple to cook up a fairly nasty explosive device.

But, in the words of the mouse in the nursery story: "Who will bell the cat?"

It's one thing to build bombs.

it's another thing to live long enough to put them in place (remember the failed Trade Center bombing in 1993? Their ANFO blew up when they hit a speed bump in the parking garage . . .)

It's still another to walk away from the ruins without being caught. McVeigh, Nichols, Sacco & Vanzetti. They all get caught before they ever get a chance to put a 2nd bomb. Kazinski did better, but he attacked a total of what, 20 or 25 people? The DC snipers did that well.

Nope, time dooms terror orgs.

And that is what is happening to Al Quaida. They HAVE shifted attacks to softer targets, like Australia, Phillipines, and Spain.

Eventually, when they have matured their infiltration skills, I'm sure they'll be back.

Right now, I expect their hurdles include the ethnicity of most of their supporters, distance and expense of getting to the target from ME, lack of agents with ability to pass in the US., lack of laundered US money, and lack of trust. Do you think Al Quaeda can recruit in American mosques? I'm sure the Arab-American community would turn them over in an instant . .

The problem with your argument is that while time would doom the lone bomber, a few bombers and a few snipers would cause havoc. The police would be stretched to their limit...as well as being out in the open. Break down the forces of law and order, break down the thin blue line that protects society and there'll be panic.

DE

I have maintained for some time that Bin Laden's intermediate-term target is not the US, but Saudi Arabia. He is himself Saudi, and has advocated a revolution there since before the 1979 Soviet/Afghan war.

Bringing down Saud would drastically weaken american presence in the ME, and give him the financial base (state-owned oil) and more importantly, the religious base (mecca) to assert himself as the first Caliph since 1918.

Once he unifies Dar-et-salaam v. the West, He can take on USA and europe.


IF i were a terrorist, I'd wait until after the election to do anything.

From AQ's viewpoint, why give Bush any ammo?

Being a clear threat, with lots of corpses lying around, has definitely hurt AQ, whether AQ is 10 people or 10,000.

The fact that Americans can now assert that there is no real threat is the environment I would want as a cell-leader.

So you spend the 3 years from 2001 to the next election laying the groundwork . . .

Getting your agents into sensitive areas, improving their english. Learning how to use a GPS signal to home in on priority targets with a scud, making US hawks look like nazis. Picking the Americinium out of 10,000 smoke detectors to make a dirty bomb. Learning how Homeland security does (or doesn't) operate.

Don't just get 19 more suicide bombers into the US; wait 3 years and get 1900 on target!

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
Shoafy, getting Ammonium Nitrate may be a little harder than you'd think. Go ask for some in a garden center and watch the response.

Seriously, I think Dept of Ag requires a signature and a handling permit for more than 5 pounds. Prove me wrong, though, if you can. All that you buy will also contain tagents, little microscopic chips with serial numbers and RFID's that will set off a metal detector, yet are not magnetic.

No, you cannot just go into a store and buy a gun in the US. Many states now have instantaneous background checks. Everywhere, you must leave a record and positive ID. And it's a 5 day wait (with the local PD getting a copy of your info) on pistols.

As I stated before, I live in Iowa and my grandparents and 2 uncles have been farmers all thier lives. I spent every summer when I was a kid on my grandparents farm and used to be friends with many of the farmers in the surrounding area. So I have been around agriculture most of my 30 years. That said, most farmers that use Ammonium Nitrate in thier fertilizer buy it very large quantities. They don't always use all of it. Now I'm not sure on the law you say was passed about AM purchases a few years back, but I know for a fact that ALOT of farmers have AM just laying around in thier barns that has been there for years. And if you're right about that AM law, which I'll ask my uncles about, it doesn't make it much harder to acquire AM, just harder to purchase it. If you've ever spent any time on a farm, you know that security against theft is something farmers don't have to worry too much about, especially in rural Iowa. Most farmers' machine sheds and barns are not very close to thier houses and are very seldom locked up. It would be easy for a "terrorist" to break in to one of these buildings and spend hours foraging for the supplies that they need, then be gone for hours without ever being seen or heard.

Now as for the gun thing. As a hunter-firearms enthusiast, I can personally vouch for how easy it is to purchase a firearm. I dont know about other states' laws, but here in Iowa, anybody can buy a table at a gunshow and sell as many guns as they please to anybody that they want with no background checks at all. I live in Des Moines, IA and there is usually a gunshow within an hours drive almost every weekend of the year. When I bought my used MAK-90(AK-47) at a gunshow, it was from a private owner(not a licensed dealer) that paid $50 for his retail booth spot and had about 40 guns for sale. The only time there has to be any paper work when a private owner sells a firearm is if it's a handgun. Then all you have to fill out is a bill of sale and transfer of ownership papers that get filed with the clerk of court of the county that you bought it in. But to buy any long gun( hunting rifles,shotguns,assault weapons); all you have to do is go in, find one you like, give the guy his money and walk out. That easy.
The point I am trying to make is this: The laws passed that are supposed to stop "terrorists" or "criminals" from getting the things they need to cause harm to people and property, dont do much good. These laws are just causing hassle and inconvenience for people that are law abiding and need such things as Ammonium Nitrate to farm or firearms for lawful reasons. The "terrorists" and "criminals" can and will get around the laws easily. Wal-Mart should be the very least of your paranoid worries.


[edit on 17-10-2004 by shoafy]

[edit on 17-10-2004 by shoafy]

Ahhhhh....and all this time little ol paranoid me was worried about other Wal_mart denizens......families of mulletheads, shapeshifting reptiles, herds of rude noisy foreigners running you down with their shopping carts..............

And now I must worry about jihadists as well? At Wal-Mart?

Is nothing sacred anymore?

if i were a terririst i think that wal marts would be a perfect target...guy walks in with a briefcase, sets it down in an aisle or restroom and walks out the door....boom...if you did this in 6 different states on the same friday or saturday, that would be terrorism...would be simple to do, simple to coordinate, and relativly risk free ( would the 70 year old door greeter stop you) this would put terror into every small town and crossroad in the us, it would strike at the economy and effect the largest retailer in the world...why go for another big strike and attack a strength where the country you are attacking is prepared?

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

I really was trying to be serious with this thread.

I'm cunfussed though...you can buy those things at numerous stores besides Wal Mart....

Originally posted by toejam
if i were a terririst i think that wal marts would be a perfect target...guy walks in with a briefcase, sets it down in an aisle or restroom and walks out the door....boom...if you did this in 6 different states on the same friday or saturday, that would be terrorism...would be simple to do, simple to coordinate, and relativly risk free ( would the 70 year old door greeter stop you) this would put terror into every small town and crossroad in the us, it would strike at the economy and effect the largest retailer in the world...why go for another big strike and attack a strength where the country you are attacking is prepared?

I agree with this statement. Also though, there are more bomb making materials out there than AN. Available at way more places than just Wal-Mart. But what do we do about it? If all of a sudden you COULDN'T buy night vision goggles at radio shack, I guarantee there would be a thread on here about taking away our freedom. But you can buy them at radio shack, so theres a thread on here about enabling terrorrists. I'm just not sure what point we're trying to make here.