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Where are the French Germans etc to defend their governments? Admit your wrong doing!

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posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 06:34 PM
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With the Oil For Food scandal and France/Germany/Russias involvment, I want to hear those from these countries who always seem to be bitching about the US say something negative about their own government.

You guys were bought by Saddam - now admit it!

EDIT: typo

[edit on 14-10-2004 by American Mad Man]



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 06:45 PM
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AmericanMadMan you forgot to ask the US to tell also for the names of the US companies involve, hooopS!!!!!!!!!!How can I forget they are conveniently protected.



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
AmericanMadMan you forgot to ask the US to tell also for the names of the US companies involve, hooopS!!!!!!!!!!How can I forget they are conveniently protected.


I am not talking about companies....

I am talking about governments - specifically, the French German and Russian ones, and their respective involvement in an international scandal that not only stole US tax dollars but also had political influence on global security.

How convenient that you attempt to try and divert attention from THE REAL culprit, and instead try to blame sonething - ANYTHING - that involves the US.


Get over your liberal "I hate America" agenda and get to the topic.



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 07:58 PM
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marg6043...

Do you have any evidense of US companies that were involved ???

Or is this just another opinion ???

American Mad Man...

Ya I agree they were bought off...

[edit on 14-10-2004 by Jedi_Master]



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 08:07 PM
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YOu actually think that they would admitt BUSH was right? Political Suicide, whiile they undercut Bush's attempt to get the UN on board, they were collecting money.......hehe they will never apologize? Have the French EVER done so?



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 08:15 PM
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Well Jedi, if I have the names I will be posting them in here but I am going to give you a nice link, supply by AceofBase.

www.informationclearinghouse.info...

And by the way we do have about two threads in the subject.



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 08:22 PM
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Originally posted by Jedi_Master
marg6043...

Do you have any evidense of US companies that were involved ???

Or is this just another opinion


Here's a New York Times story:


IHT:

The 918-page report says that four U.S. oil companies - Chevron, Mobil, Texaco and Bay Oil - and three individuals, including Oscar Wyatt Jr. of Houston, were given vouchers and got 111 million barrels of oil between them from 1996 to 2003. The vouchers allowed them to profit by selling the oil or the right to trade it.



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 08:28 PM
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Ahhhh...

Halliburton...I would like to know where informationclearinghouse.info got their info from, or is it just an opinion from informationclearinghouse.info ?

Got to look at the sources here, informationclearinghouse.info looks to me like a biased site...

Do you have any info from unbiased sites ???



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 08:30 PM
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Thanks Ace...

Will look into those companies, and that site...

[edit on 14-10-2004 by Jedi_Master]



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 08:46 PM
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Again, THIS IS NOT ABOUT AMERICAN COMPANIES! IT IS ABOUT EUROPEAN GOVERNMENTS!

Stop trying to change the subject of this thread. American companies have NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. If you want to talk about it, make another thread!

This is about France, Germany, and Russia getting BRIBES by Saddam.

I want some frogs to admit their government was wrong! ome on, I know you surrender monkeys can read this! Just say "France was on the take from Saddam, and thats the reason we didn't back you" and I will try to salvage some type of respect for your poor excuse for a country.



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 08:46 PM
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Well...

From what I read from the link...


The fact that these companies and individuals received oil from Iraq does not mean that they did anything illegal, experts on the program said. Such allocations may have been proper if the individuals and companies received appropriate UN approval. In interviews on Friday, spokesmen for the oil companies and for El Paso Corp., which assumed control of the assets of the company once run by Wyatt, said the transactions had been legal.


Looks like if they had UN approval, then it was legal ( but of course the UN is corrupt too )...


But each confirmed that they had received subpoenas from a U.S. grand jury in New York, which is investigating "transactions in oil of Iraqi origin" as part of the oil-for-food program, according to a U.S. financial filing by El Paso.



But it looks like they are still investigating, so who knows what this will turn up...



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 08:50 PM
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Oh sorry American Mad Man...

Yes France, Germany, and Russia were taking bribes from Saddam, that's why they don't support the Iraq war...

I guess we will have to wait for these folks to comment...
if they ever will...



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 08:54 PM
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American MadMan, post some links to the German government officials who were bribed please.

I'm unable to find information on it at this time.



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man
Again, THIS IS NOT ABOUT AMERICAN COMPANIES! IT IS ABOUT EUROPEAN GOVERNMENTS!

Stop trying to change the subject of this thread. American companies have NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. If you want to talk about it, make another thread!

This is about France, Germany, and Russia getting BRIBES by Saddam.

I want some frogs to admit their government was wrong! ome on, I know you surrender monkeys can read this! Just say "France was on the take from Saddam, and thats the reason we didn't back you" and I will try to salvage some type of respect for your poor excuse for a country.


If I were French - and I'm of French descent - I'd tell you to go to hell. And you ask why Europeans are critical of America's attitude in world affairs? You act as though you're the only ones in the right, and everybody else should be ashamed of not being American! In fact, the more conservatives among you seem to thrive on humiliating other countries or demanding that they humiliate themselves. After calling the French "frogs", you actually expect them to come and say "Sorry, Mr. Powerful and Right American, we are evil, puny and so very wrong"?

I thought this board was about discussion of issues, not putting other countries or their citizens on trial. If that's what it is, then I want nothing to do with this forum.



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 09:03 PM
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Otts...

Can you comment on the OIL For Food program, what is your take on the french situation, in this ??



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 09:06 PM
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[

Originally posted by American Mad Man

I want some frogs to admit their government was wrong! ome on, I know you surrender monkeys can read this! Just say "France was on the take from Saddam, and thats the reason we didn't back you" and I will try to salvage some type of respect for your poor excuse for a country.




I find this insulting also, US has his share of dirty deals and secrets, what ever is your personal problems with these countries ATS is not the place to vent your problems and anger. Perhaps you should consider going into those countries you hate so much and take your complains directly to them.



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 09:31 PM
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Originally posted by Otts
If I were French - and I'm of French descent - I'd tell you to go to hell.


I have French in me - it doesn't stop me from telling it how it is. Yes, they probably will tell me to go to hell, because they can't own up to the fact that they are wrong. They are too full of themselves to wake up and realize that "the big bad US of A" was actually right, and they were wrong.



And you ask why Europeans are critical of America's attitude in world affairs? You act as though you're the only ones in the right, and everybody else should be ashamed of not being American!


What pisses me off is it is exactly the opposite - it is the Europeans who think that they are always right, and this thread proves it! Where are the French up in arms over their governments involvment with a known mass murderer who commited genocide? Where are the Germans? NO WHERE - BECAUSE THEY ARE NEVER WRONG AND CAN DO NO WRONG IN THEIR OWN EYES!



In fact, the more conservatives among you seem to thrive on humiliating other countries or demanding that they humiliate themselves. After calling the French "frogs", you actually expect them to come and say "Sorry, Mr. Powerful and Right American, we are evil, puny and so very wrong"?


I didn't expect any one of them to show up, because they can't admit their own wrong doing. THATS THE GOD DAMN POINT! And what the hell is the difference between calling someone a surrender monkey or frog and calling a whole people fat? NOTHING. BOTH re insults of an entire population, but Europeans seem to have no problem dishing it out, but when it comes time to take it, they can't and cry foul, just as you are doing now.



I thought this board was about discussion of issues, not putting other countries or their citizens on trial. If that's what it is, then I want nothing to do with this forum.


This is a discussion of an issue - the issue is how French, Germans, Russians and other European nations have criticized the US ever since we went to Iraq, yet when their real reasons for objecting to it come out, you don't hear a peep out of them about their own missdeads!

It is very indicative of how blatently anti-American some European nations have become.

BTW, I would expect nothing less of this argument coming from Canada.



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 09:32 PM
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*takes a very deep breath*

Jedi Master, you're right to call me back to reason. I'm sorry, folks, if I lost my temper. I will only say this - I admire and respect American pride and patriotism. What I do not tolerate is American smugness - and trust me, I will NEVER say that all Americans, or even half of them, are smug and take pleasure in demeaning other countries.

Now, on the oil-for-food program...

As French is my first and main language, I have the advantage of consulting sources in French on the Internet re that scandal. I'll do a research on that in the next week and post whatever I can find on how the French media and the French political class is treating this. Other than that, I have nothing new to add to what has already been made public.

I am all in favor of prosecuting this scandal further, and if French officials were involved in it (and I know, it's no longer a question of "if") I'm sure the French population will remember that when election time rolls around. But I think it's incredibly unfair to profile an entire nation for the actions of some members (we have yet to know the full extent of what happened) of its government.

What I can say on the present French government is that Chirac has never been loved. If he was re-elected with 82 percent of the vote in 2002, it's because the other contender in the second ballot of the elections was extreme-right, anti-immigration candidate Jean-Marie Le Pen. In that situation, all the other parties - which had not passed the first ballot - pushed to vote for Chirac as a lesser evil.

For the Chirac administration to be involved in a scandal once again does not surprise me. I was in Paris in 1996 when an influential member of his party, Bernard Tapie, was going to jail. One night, I was invited to dinner at a friend's place, and I have never seen Parisians - usually proud - go through such a session of self-flagellation regarding the corruption of the then Jupp government. So believe me, the French are aware that theirs is not the most angelic of governments.

Re the oil-for-food scandals, I believe we haven't got the entire story yet. More details will come, and hopefully we will know what Chirac knew and when he knew it. But meanwhile, I beg people to show respect for the nation if not for the government.



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man
Again, THIS IS NOT ABOUT AMERICAN COMPANIES! IT IS ABOUT EUROPEAN GOVERNMENTS!

Stop trying to change the subject of this thread. American companies have NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. If you want to talk about it, make another thread!

This is about France, Germany, and Russia getting BRIBES by Saddam.

I want some frogs to admit their government was wrong! ome on, I know you surrender monkeys can read this! Just say "France was on the take from Saddam, and thats the reason we didn't back you" and I will try to salvage some type of respect for your poor excuse for a country.

Oh, hey there buddy youre in luck today! Guess what? I am a American/French citizen!!! So what kind of brilliant remarks would you like to make about our "poor excuse for a country" ? In fact, tell me 1 thing you know about french society/culture. You think it makes you look smart to sit there and badmouth France's dealings with Iraq, when the US arms saddam, then invades there to find the weapons he had previously destroyed. Look im not going to get into a political debate here, because youre really not intelligent enough. But I would like to hear some of your thoughts on the country that is my 2nd home, You sit there and call us "surrender monkeys"...its so ridiculous to base your current thoughts upon eras that ended decades ago, if we were to go by those rules, that would mean that americans would still be in the highly racist segregation era of the 1940's, theres something to be proud of... And hey since were going back in history, why dont we bring up the fact that the french helped america gain its independence from britain... We dont like to remember that one too much now do we? No, we just call the french pussies because they wont bow down to our every request like the UK, and go illegally invade countries that arent posing risks to global peace. Remember kiddies if you wanna stick it to ol pepe le pew, call em Freedom fries when ordering at Mcdonalds.



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man
BTW, I would expect nothing less of this argument coming from Canada.


I have ALWAYS taken pains to show respect for the American nation even though I don't agree with its government. I date a Californian, I know that Americans are regular people, and that intelligence or stupidity, honesty or dishonesty, does not have a nationality. I have ALWAYS taken pains to get people to show respect to people of other nations and not generalize an accusation to an entire people. I will be the FIRST to tell other people how unfair it would be to put the entire American nation in the same category.

Because A) as I said, I DON'T believe that the American nation is "evil", and B) I believe that if I'm going to expend efforts saying that you can't throw all the French into the same category, I'm going to be consistent and give the same respect to Americans.

So you know, I really resent ONCE MORE being branded because of my nationality.

Forget it, I'm done with this forum.




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