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Columbus Day Celebrates The Most Important Turning Point in History

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posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 07:15 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
yes, they then took it back to the old world and spread it, but natives were inmune to it.



UHHH

No, nobody is immune to it

I would have to see some proof on that



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 07:17 PM
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Actually amuk I should not had used inmune but they were more resistant to the effects, my daughter did a report on it for her biology class.



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Actually amuk I should not had used inmune but they were more resistant to the effects, my daughter did a report on it for her biology class.



OK thats a whole different story



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 07:30 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
You know that Columbus and his men got the syphilis from the natives? yes, they then took it back to the old world and spread it, but natives were inmune to it.


It only takes a second to type a lie. It can take hours to google the truth.



It's likely that researchers will never come to an agreement about where syphilis originated and how it arrived in the Old World. The most widely accepted theory is that the venereal form of the disease arrived on the shores of Europe along with Christopher Columbus's crew, when they returned in 1493 from a journey to the New World. Indeed, although no cases of the disease seem to have existed in Europe before Columbus sailed to the New World, it had reached epidemic levels on the continent by around 1500. But in recent years, pre-Columbian skeletons -- such as those unearthed at the Hull friary in England -- have been found with distinctive signs of syphilis. Those skeletons have turned the nice, tidy picture of New World origins into a muddy mess.

The sexually-transmitted form of syphilis is caused by a corkscrew-shaped bacterium called Treponema pallidum, which is one of a closely-related group of bacteria called the treponomes. Other treponomes are responsible for the three non-venereal forms of syphilis, which primarily affect the skin and are most common in early childhood. Bejel, also caused by Treponema pallidum, is prevalent among Bedouin tribes and elsewhere
in the Middle East; pinta, caused by the Treponema carateum bacterium, is common in Central and South America; and yaws, the result of infection with the Treponema pertenue bacterium, is found in moist, tropical regions throughout the world. Venereal syphilis probably mutated out of one of those other forms -- most likely, researchers say, from the bacterium that causes yaws. When that happened, however, is the big mystery.
www.pbs.org...




Debate about the origins of syphilis has continued for nearly 500 years, ever since early sixteenth-century Europeans blamed each other, referring to it variously as the Venetian, Naples, or French disease. One hypothesis assumes a New World origin, and holds that sailors who accompanied Columbus and other explorers brought the disease back to Europe. Another explanation is that syphilis was always present in the Old World but was not identified as a separate disease from leprosy before about A.D. 1500. A third possibility is that syphilis developed in both hemispheres from the related diseases bejel and yaws. New studies by paleopathologists Bruce and Christine Rothschild favor a New World origin.

Ancient and medieval sources have long been cited as evidence for syphilis in Europe before Columbus, but none of the descriptions by Greek and Roman authors are specific enough to be certain. Returning crusaders brought "Saracen ointment" containing mercury for treating "lepers," an appropriate medication for syphilis but not for leprosy.

Thirteenth- and fourteenth-century A.D. references to "venereal leprosy" may also indicate syphilis because leprosy is not sexually transmitted. But the first unambiguous descriptions of syphilis begin around 1500. These may either reflect growing medical knowledge and ability to differentiate syphilis from other diseases or signal its arrival from the New World.
www.archaeology.org...




Italian Skeletons Reveal Old World Diseases
By Rossella Lorenzi, Discovery News

April 12, 2004 � Researchers investigating Italian cemeteries have found further evidence to confirm that syphilis and rheumatoid arthritis plagued the Americas long before the arrival of Columbus.
Involving various sites throughout Italy, the study examined 688 skeletons dating from the Bronze Age to the Black Plague epidemic of 1485-1486. The remains were investigated for the presence of bony alterations characteristic of rheumatoid arthritis, gout, spondyloarthropathy and syphilis-causing organisms, called treponemes.

Indeed, syphilis is known to scar and deform bones. Legend holds that Columbus and his crew contracted syphilis in the New World and caused an outbreak in Europe.
dsc.discovery.com...


www.google.com...



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 07:33 PM
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Originally posted by LL1
Winston Churchill, Al Capone and Christopher Columbus?

Give up, that's to those whom may not know....

Well they all died from syphilis...



Originally posted by marg6043
You know that Columbus and his men got the syphilis from the natives? yes, they then took it back to the old world and spread it, but natives were inmune to it.


Congratulations Marg, I now take what you post even less seriously than I did before (you now have a credibility vacuum). LL1, it was Winston Churchill�s father who was rumored to have died from Syphilis.


New York State Department of Health
Does past infection with syphilis make a person immune?

There is no natural immunity to syphilis and past infection offers no protection to the patient.


www.health.state.ny.us...


Wikipedia
The origins of syphilis are not known, though it does appear to have been documented by Hippocrates in Classical Greece in its venereal/tertiary form. This form was known in a Greek city of Metaponto in Italy about 600 BC, and at Pompeii where additional archaeological evidence of uniquely grooved teeth of the children of mothers with syphilis has been found.

Evidence of syphilis in medieval Europe has been found at the site of a 13-14th century Augustinian friary in the northeastern English port of Kingston upon Hull.

This friary provided medical care including palliative care and burial rites for "wretched souls". Skeletons discovered at the friary bear bone lesions typical of tertiary venereal syphilis. Carbon dating affirms these skeletons were buried during the existence of the friary, which was destroyed in 1539.


en.wikipedia.org...

A page about Lord Randolph Henry Spencer-Churchill.

www.winstonchurchill.org...



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 07:35 PM
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Well Grady thanks to point out that I told the truth, you probably had the same class that my daughter had in her second year of college.



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 07:42 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Well Grady thanks to point out that I told the truth, you probably had the same class that my daughter had in her second year of college.


Marg, do you actually read any of the posts? Do you bother to use the links people provide to support their points?

You are wrong! Syphilis immunity did not exist in North America, or anywhere else in the world... Then or now.



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 07:49 PM
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Here's my conspiracy of the day. marg, dgtempe, and nanna of 6 are identical triplets who were separated at birth and miraculously reunited here at ATS.



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Here's my conspiracy of the day. marg, dgtempe, and nanna of 6 are identical triplets who were separated at birth and miraculously reunited here at ATS.


I find your coment on me and the other fellow members insulting but again I can match you with some around here too.


[edit on 14-10-2004 by marg6043]



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 07:56 PM
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Come on children lets play nice now



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 07:59 PM
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Amuk I love the fun, you know Grady is just cozy and harmless.


LL1

posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 08:12 PM
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It's the insulting member that does not realize that just like Catherine The Great, and her death, at the family's request negative information is removed from history.
To the member with the monkey avatar. Look into abnormal pysch disorders on sexual deviants.
All I have to say to you, is like father like son.
Now this is Gradys' thread on Columbus, want to start a syphilis thread, then so be it.....
Winston Churchill died from syphilis, he went deaf and blind.

List of people on stamps of the United Kingdom - encyclopedia ...
... Two of her sisters, Maria and Elizabeth, died. .... ... Sir Winston Churchill, KG. ..... ...
Towards the end of his life, he caught syphilis and began to go blind. ...
encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/ List%20of%20people%20on%20stamps%20of%20the%20United%20Kingdom - 57k -



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 08:36 PM
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Ok, I guess we go back to the topic.

I really don't see the point of celebrating Columbus day. I would much rather celebrate the folks who actually made something out of this place (despite the nasty way they did it).

We need to KNOW the bad parts of the past, but still celebrate the good. I guess it's a balance we haven't mastered yet.



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 08:49 PM
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How many of you just decided since Grady posted it, you have to disagree?

This is the main theme of the article, as I took it:


On Columbus Day, we celebrate the civilization whose philosophers and mathematicians, men such as Aristotle, Archimedes, and Euclid, displaced otherworldly mysticism by discovering the laws of logic and mathematical relationships, demonstrating to mankind that the universe is knowable and predictable.


No one can dispute that statement!

Several points to be made:

No, Colombus wasn't the first to discover the "New World". The Norse were in the North America as early as 800 AD, but their settlements didn't last, and the powers of the day were unaware that the "New World" existed - considering they believed the world was flat. What Columbus did was open the "New World" to the pre-eminent powers of the day. To them, he did discover it. The only reason to argue the semantics of who discovered is for arguments sake.

Also, Columbus never actually set foot in what is now America, in my opinion making the argument about Native Americans not celebrating the day invalid. Indian kids like the day off of school just as much as anyone! Besides Amerigo Vespucci is the name you should be spitting on.

My Aunt by marriage is a fool-blooded Native American. I've known her my entire life, and never once has she spoken poorly about Columbus Day. She's spoken about the fact that the bloody history of Native Americans isn't taught as much as she'd like, but she's never once said she believes she'd be better off if the "white man" never came. She thinks while the bloodshed that occured was horrible, the nation that grew on it was a pretty good result.

Also, since the majority of her family still resides on a reservation, she works to better the conditions on the reservation. I imagine she'd find this argument to be pointless - these efforts could be better focused on things that are happening now, rather then 150 to 400 years ago. People presently not effected by something tend to scream about the past rather then want to change the future.

Also, the idea that this is solely an American tragedy is false. While we're not innocent in the matter, the English, French, and Spanish started the bloodshed long before America was even a thought.

How come when someone posts a thread actually about the killing of natives after European expansion almost no one responded, but when Grady posts something praising the fact that Columbus' voyage was one of the most important things to happen to civilization everyone screams about the killing of natives? You have to realize that this was a huge turning point in history, and on whole, a positive one.

Some one would have come eventually and as stoic as Native Americans are the outcome wouldn't have been any different.



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 08:58 PM
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Do I need to say anything else?


www.abovetopsecret.com...



Article from MSNBC

Majority exterminated
Overall, 95 percent were obliterated.

''What this means is that, on average, for every 20 Natives alive at the moment of European contact � when the lands of the Americas teemed with numerous tens of millions of people �only one stood in their place when the bloodbath was over.''






posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 09:02 PM
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Originally posted by LL1
It's the insulting member that does not realize that just like Catherine The Great, and her death, at the family's request negative information is removed from history.
To the member with the monkey avatar. Look into abnormal pysch disorders on sexual deviants.
All I have to say to you, is like father like son.
Now this is Gradys' thread on Columbus, want to start a syphilis thread, then so be it.....
Winston Churchill died from syphilis, he went deaf and blind.

List of people on stamps of the United Kingdom - encyclopedia ...
... Two of her sisters, Maria and Elizabeth, died. .... ... Sir Winston Churchill, KG. ..... ...
Towards the end of his life, he caught syphilis and began to go blind. ...
encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/ List%20of%20people%20on%20stamps%20of%20the%20United%20Kingdom - 57k -


Insulting? Not as insulting as your lack of due diligence and slipshod research. Please refer to this quote from the website that you misquoted.

On another note, all psychiatric disorders are abnormal, whether they are �on� sexual deviants, or not (was this some attempt to label Winston Churchill a sexual deviant?).


encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com
On January 15, 1965 Churchill suffered another stroke � a severe cerebral thrombosis � that left him gravely ill. He died nine days later on January 24, 1965.


encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com...

Your errant interpretation of a Google search can be attributed to Frederick Delius. Please note the same �source� has been utilized for this reference.


encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com
Towards the end of his life, he caught syphilis Syphilis and began to go blind.


encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com...

You read the search synopsis and attributed an ill defined line to Winston Churchill, without any regard for veracity you posted and when disputed you eschewed further research� Ignorance Embraced.



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by PistolPete
How many of you just decided since Grady posted it, you have to disagree?

This is the main theme of the article, as I took it:


On Columbus Day, we celebrate the civilization whose philosophers and mathematicians, men such as Aristotle, Archimedes, and Euclid, displaced otherworldly mysticism by discovering the laws of logic and mathematical relationships, demonstrating to mankind that the universe is knowable and predictable.


No one can dispute that statement!


But personally, I can dispute that this is the meaning of Columbus Day. I don't need some random article telling me what Columbus Day is. Columbus Day is just that, it means different things to different people.

I enjoy reading Aristotle, but I would never associate him with Columbus.

I don't see any point in celebrating Columbus Day as a turning point in history. If anyone else feels so inclined, by all means have fun, but I used to see it as another day off school, and now, I didn't even remember it until Grady brought it up.



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 09:05 PM
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Hi Grady- the secret is out at last. Actually, the psychiatrist says im all 3 people and we're working on this problem.



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 09:13 PM
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What can I say I prefer to be triplets with two fine ladies, we make quite a trio.


LL1

posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 09:20 PM
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When your credentials are as long as any college professor, whether
that be undergrad or grad would your statement hold any water.

Winston Churchills' mother was quite promiscuous. Whether he acquired it by birth, or
through affairs, is for you to do more than "Google Search".
As I stated before look at abnormal pyschology/sexual deviant
behaviors of famous people.


judicial-inc.biz...



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