speeding up time

Now this is all hypothetical, so bear with me. I want to lay out a scenario here and pose a question with it.

You are an a spacecraft capable of obtaining the speed of light. You are going to travel from earth orbit to a distant nebula. You are able to observe the nebula in realtime as you travel from Earth to the nebula.

Question:
During the trip, while observing the nebula, would time appear to speed up? I ask this because the light from our closest star, not counting sol, takes millions of years to reach us. The closer you are to the star, the less time it takes for the light to reach you. So, to me, it would seem logical that while you were observing this nebula on the craft it would be similar to watching a recording of the nebula on fast forward. I would think the rate of speed would also affect the perception of the speed of time.

Any thoughts?

Yes, it would, though keep in mind that the changes would not occur within our attention span. The space craft would have to be travelling many times the speed of light for you to notice any subtle differences. But, if you were travelling away from the nebula at light speed, light from the nebula would stay with your craft. The only differences you would be able to percieve, would be if you were to move your head back and forth while looking out a window, then it would appear to go forward in time, then backward, etc. etc. (though you wouldn't be able to notice any changes).

Does any one know what formula represents this? If anybody could help cure this obsession of mine id be very much indebt to ya.

I think I've got it:

"C" represents the speed of light
"S" represents the speed of the spacecraft
"P" represents the speed of light viewed from the spacecraft.
C + D = P

If you're going towards the light source (in this case the nebula), then "D" would be positive, and if you're coming home from you're little adventure, then "D" is negative.

Simple, huh? I'm sure that this is correct, but it seems too easy. If anyone comes up with a more complex one, post it, because I'd like to see.

[edit on 14-10-2004 by diehard_democrat]

Originally posted by diehard_democrat
I think I've got it:

"C" represents the speed of light
"S" represents the speed of the spacecraft
"P" represents the speed of light viewed from the spacecraft.
C + D = P



[edit on 14-10-2004 by diehard_democrat]

Thats it? I really was expecting somthing much longer. Ive been doing some searching, but I cat find a therom posted for this anywhere else.

Give it a bit, there are some diehard physics nuts on this board ( ment in a good way ). If there is a different therom, They will let us know.

Doesn't Einstein's Relativaty Theory explain that? I know that the faster you go, the faster time goes, and the slower you go, the slower time goes. Like time goes faster when your going 100 mph rather than 40 mph (and i mean literal time, not what seems like a long time). Although this speed difference is not enough to make any type of impact on you. You really have to reach the intense speeds for long periods of time to make any impact. But yes, time does technically speed up and slow down.

Well, I understand that speed affects time, but my question was how woud the nebula apper to you while observing it on the trip. Would it seem to flow normally like when you fkying on an airplane and approaching the ground? Or would it be like warching a video of the Nebula in fastforward? Also, any supporting formulas to represesnt this phenomenon.

The theory of relativity only comes into account if you are travelling at the speed of light, I recall. For those who don't know what E=MC 2 actually means:
Energy=Mass x Speed of Light squared

At the speed of light, you would become energy, and yes, time would accelerate and decelerate, but only on a small scale. If you were to go into a capable spacecraft, travel around the Earth at the speed of light, then come back down a few hours later (your time) everything else would have aged years.

I read that somewhere.

Kidfinger:

Here's my take on it, and I'm sticking to it.

Let's go with your hypothetical situation. Let's assume this
little Nebulae is only one light year from Earth. We know that isn't
so, but just for hypothetical sake, let's say it is one light year.

When you leave Earth towards it at the speed of light, you start
adding up the seconds.

The light being emitted from this Nebulae is coming TOWARDS us at the
speed of light. You start subtracting the seconds from the other end.

After just six months, you reach exactly half way in your journey. This
is a balancing out location. The added seconds equal the subtracted
seconds. From then on, each second becomes half of its value. In other
words, time is then speeded up to where it is twice as fast. The closer
to the Nebulae you get, it WILL seem like seeing a movie on double speed.
Another thing, when you reach the half way point or the balancing
location, you are actually watching the light being emmitted from the
Nebulae at real time. You have traveled TOWARDS the Nebulae at the
speed of light for six months, and the light FROM the Nebulae has been
coming towards you at 186,000 miles per second for six months.

From the balancing location, time will continue on, however for every
second you travel, two will have gone by. By the time you reach the
Nebulae in the next six months, time will have gone by only six months
in your mind, but in all reality a whole year has gone by.
To heck with Einstein!


ZOOMER

[edit on 14-10-2004 by ZOOMER]

What my final theory is, is time never changes no matter what. But what does change, is the ratio between different time frequencies (if you know what I mean by that). One frequency would be the person travelling's point of view, and a bystander's point of view.

You're in a car going on vacation, and a hitchhiker whizzes by. From your point of view, the hitchhiker is moving at 60 mph. But, from the hitchhiker's point of view, you're doing 60. Make sense? Maybe this will help.

If you were to go into a capable spacecraft, travel around the Earth at the speed of light, then come back down hours later (your time) everything else would have aged years.

You're operating time at a very low speed, because the only thing you are doing right now is going the speed of light, which takes a great portion of your energy. But, the people back on Earth have no worries, so they operate time at the regular pace. That is why you only age a few hours, but they age a few years.

Does that make any sense? I hope it can answer your question.

[edit on 14-10-2004 by diehard_democrat]

No, you're all wrong, the nebula will seem to be going in SLOW MOTION. Since you're going so quickly, time is slowed in your perspective. Same goes for anyone looking at you through a telescope from the nebula. They will ALSO seem to see you going in slow motion. Reason being? You may be slowing time down, but you are still on the same "clock" as the other observer. Let's say you both hypothetically live to be 80. You will both life 80 hypothetical years, but one will have bent time and space to slow it thus increasing the lifespan relative to the observer on the nebula.

If this is too confusing I'll try to get the explanation from the book that I'm reading which summarized General and Special relativity.

WaStEdDeAtH777 is right. As speed increases time slows, it is actually proven. It is just so slight in our relm to be noticed. But you would not actually see things going double time or anything like that, it would be a difference in time based on relativity, everything would appear normal.

Ever feel like time moves really quickly or really slowly? Like how the hours fly by when you're hanging out with your best friend or how seconds drag on endlessly when you're stuck inside on a rainy day. But you can't really slow time down or speed it up, right? It always flows at the same rate.

Einstein didn't think so. His idea was that the closer we came to traveling at the speed of light, the more time would slow down for us relative to someone not moving. He called the slowing of time due to motion, time dilation.

No way, you say? Well, imagine this. You're standing on Earth holding a clock. Your best friend is in a rocket zooming past you at 250,000 km per second (lucky friend!). Your friend is also holding a clock. If you could see your friend's clock, you'd notice that it seems to be moving a lot more slowly than yours. Your friend, on the other hand, thinks the clock in the rocket is moving just fine, and it's your clock that seems to be moving more slowly. Still sounds confusing? Well, remember it took Einstein years to figure this out, and he was considered a genius.

Einstein came up with an example to show the effects of time dilation which he called the "twin paradox." It's a lot like the Time Traveler game. Let's try it out with a pair of pretend twins, Eyne and Stine, both of whom are 10 years old in their pretend universe.

Eyne decides she has had enough of Earth and needs a vacation. She's heard great things about rock resorts in the Alpha-3 star system, which is 25 light years away (a light year is the distance light travels in a year). Stine, who has a math test next week, must stay at home to study. So Eyne sets out on her own. Wanting to get there as quickly as possible, she decides to travel at 99.99 percent of the speed of light. The trip to the star and back takes just over 50 years. What happens when Eyne returns? Stine is now 60 years old, but Eyne is only ten and a half! How can this be? Eyne was away for fifty years but only aged by half a year!

www.pbs.org...

I suggeast reading this book (The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene). It really explains these theories well.

Thanks for the book recommendation Mags, Ill have to check that out. Its a little on the confusing side. If you were flying into the light being emmitted by the nebula, it would seem that you would experience the light faster, not slower. I have read a few articled on Einstines time Dilation theory, but it just doesnt seem to follow logic in this situation. It works for people in the craft, but not logically for light being observed outside of the craft.

Originally posted by mags
WaStEdDeAtH777 is right. As speed increases time slows, it is actually proven. It is just so slight in our relm to be noticed. But you would not actually see things going double time or anything like that, it would be a difference in time based on relativity, everything would appear normal.


www.pbs.org...

I suggeast reading this book (The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene). It really explains these theories well.

True.speed and time are inversely proportional.But i completely disagree when you say everything appears normal.
Moving toward the nebula at several times the speed of light,you should expect to observe an increase in the frequency of light photons from the nebula.this of course should lead one to expect the "fast foward " phenomenon.

From the Theory Of Special Relativity, time dilates as follows:




where t=time dilation, t0 is observed time, v=velocity, and c=speed of light

Here is a useful link explaining the phenomenon.

Originally posted by Paul
From the Theory Of Special Relativity, time dilates as follows:




where t=time dilation, t0 is observed time, v=velocity, and c=speed of light

Here is a useful link explaining the phenomenon.

Thats what Ive been looking for! Thanks a million The formula makes perfect sence now that I see it.

No, you're all wrong, the nebula will seem to be going in SLOW MOTION. Since you're going so quickly, time is slowed in your perspective. Same goes for anyone looking at you through a telescope from the nebula. They will ALSO seem to see you going in slow motion. Reason being? You may be slowing time down, but you are still on the same "clock" as the other observer. Let's say you both hypothetically live to be 80. You will both life 80 hypothetical years, but one will have bent time and space to slow it thus increasing the lifespan relative to the observer on the nebula.

If this is too confusing I'll try to get the explanation from the book that I'm reading which summarized General and Special relativity.

Yep...helps to remember the reason it's called "relativity"...as it's "relative" to the observer... Really does a number on the old noggin' though, eh?

Originally posted by diehard_democrat
The theory of relativity only comes into account if you are travelling at the speed of light, I recall.

It actually holds for all motion. Yes time dialtion occurs as I walk down the street. The effects become more pronounced at greater speeds. Traveling at, say, 75% of the speed of light causes signifigant dialations.

It actually holds for all motion. Yes time dialtion occurs as I walk down the street. The effects become more pronounced at greater speeds. Traveling at, say, 75% of the speed of light causes signifigant dialations.

This is true. The easiest way I've found to think about is as follows. Think of yourself as a 4 dimensional being. You are moving in the traditional x, y, and z cartesian coordinates, that is you can move right or left, forward or back, as well as up and down. Those represent the traditional 3 dimensions. However you are currently moving forward in the fourth dimension, time, as well. You are always moving through one of these dimensions, and think of yourself as moving through the time at the speed of light (c), and that the maximum speed you can travel in any dimension is c. If you start heading in the z direction at 1/2 the speed of light, you only have 1/2 of your speed left to move through time. Thus your travel through time would slow down. This is probably wrong theorhetically, but it has helped me to understand relativity. Disclaimer: Understand that the preceding paragraph was only an effort to explain relativity in an easily digestable fashion. None of the claims I made re: the speed of light, etc. should be taken as fact.

Thanks for you time.

Matt.

[edit on 17-10-2004 by mattison0922]