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You know what the Best part of the debate was? (Are debates even relevant anymore?)

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posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 12:09 AM
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You know what the Best part of the debate was for me?

The fact that I did not even watch it. I instead chose to spend time with my wife and 2 year old at the park. Not only did I get to chase him around and practice some of those good old fashioned "Family Values" both candidates preach.

Lets be really honest here. The Debates are nothing but a dog and pony show. Barring a major slip up, its as scripted as a Hollywood movie. How many of us here on ATS really changed our stance based on what the candidates said. The polls showed that the numbers on undecided voters after the first debate was 20%, the second 18%, WHoooooooo Hoooooooo

Debates simply no longer matter!!!!!! Sad but true

[edit on 10/14/04 by FredT]



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 12:28 AM
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Originally posted by FredT

Debates simply no longer matter!!!!!! Sad but true

[edit on 10/14/04 by FredT]


Glad to hear you had good old fashion fun.

I think debates are a good thing, as most americans know ziltch about who they vote for. If they can just turn the sitcoms off and educate themselves maybe there would be interest in the process that so many gave their lives to give us the right to do.

[edit on 14-10-2004 by edsinger]



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 12:56 AM
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The best part of the dabates is; is the fact that they are over!

I do not believe they are relevant in the context that they were done. They were contrived to consolidate their base and no new information was debated.



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 01:00 AM
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The best part of the third debate was the end. I felt like somebody had set the audio feed to "repeat".

MK



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 01:27 AM
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But winning is still good too.

CNN/Gallup. Snap poll following debate. MoE 5%.
Kerry 52%
Bush 39%

I'll spare you the on-line polls. Brutal as usual for Bush.

But pundits must weigh in on what they see regardless...

MSNBC Keith Oberman: 12 Rounds Kerry, 4 Rounds Bush

Bob Novak: “Kerry seems to be overpowering Bush.” (cnn.com, 10/13/04)

Candy Crowley: “If what you’re looking for in a candidate is the best debater, I mean, that is definitely John Kerry. He has a quick command of the facts, he is very articulate, and I think the poll reflects that.” (CNN, 10/13/04)

Ron Reagan: “I will predict that the polls tomorrow, just as they have in the two previous presidential debates, will say that Kerry won.” (MSNBC, 10/13/04)

Pat Buchanan: “Kerry was, I thought, very much at the top of his game and I thought toward the end, when you saw Kerry, you saw more of the humanity of the man in some of those questions, which was very helpful to them; talking about the daughters and things. I thought he had some excellent moments.” (MSNBC, 10/13/04)

John Roberts: “I would probably have to give it to John Kerry. He seemed a little bit more poised.” (CBS, John Roberts, 10/13/04)

Joe Scarborough: “It gave Democrats a reason to be excited about John Kerry.” (MSNBC, 10/13/04)

Jon Meacham, Newsweek: “John Kerry took the populist war straight to the President.” (MSNBC, 10/13/04)

Tavis Smiley: “I think, Peter, that you have to shore up your bases…I think Mr. Kerry did that with people of color on the left.” (ABC, 10/13/04)

Bill Schneider: “Well this was a decisive win for John Kerry. It was just about as decisive as his win in the first debate, which everyone agreed was a blowout. His, the first debate he won by 16 points; this debate, Kerry won by 13 points. According to the views of the viewers polled immediately after the debate so they had no chance really to be influenced by the spin.” (CNN, 10/13/04)

Andrea Mitchell: “Kerry says, well we all, you know, married above ourselves and some would say, me more than most – joking about Teresa Heinz and her extraordinary fortune and I thought that was actually showing a lot of self confidence of John Kerry to joke about that disparity.” (MSNBC, 10/13/04

David Gergen: "John Kerry, Sen. Kerry gained strength as the debate went on and I thought he became much more effective and if anything I thought the last part of the debate was his." (PBS, 10/13/04)

Carlos Watson: “As we went along, as we talked about social security, as we talked about immigration, as we talked even about the Supreme Court, I thought John Kerry ultimately found his voice. And when all is said and done I think Kerry will be proclaimed the winner, which I think will be significant because I think he will be viewed as having won all three debates.” (CNN, 10/13/04)

Dean Reynolds: “I think the candidate whose numbers have been moving in the right direction for the last 10 days has been Senator John Kerry, this debate did nothing to stop that, and I think from the Kerry point of view they’ll be happy about the results tonight.” (ABC, 10/13/04)

Anthony Mason: “Dan, the uncommitted voters in our survey have given the edge in this debate, to this final debate, to John Kerry.” (CBS, 10/13/04)

David Gergen: "What I thought John Kerry did very effectively tonight was reach out to women voters and they've become critical to his election Charlie, its the bigggest change that's taken place since these debates started. And tonight, I would imagine with the Yankees and Red Sox on, there were probably a lot of women in that audience tonight." (PBS, 10/13/04)

"After viewing two presidential debates, a group of local independent voters has decided whom to support - and will use tonight's face-off simply to make sure they've got it right. Currently, Kerry is the pick of the majority. The Denver Post gathered the five panelists last month to view the debates. At the time, none of them had decided." (Denver Post, 10/13/04)

Seniors Weigh In For Kerry. AARP hosted a debate watch party in Las Vegas they were asked: Which presidential candidate best addressed the issues important to you? 76.2% for John Kerry, 15.1% George W. Bush, 8.7 Draw

Bill Schneider: “Well I think he did appear more presidential than the president, which is exactly why he won the first debate and why he won this debate.” (CNN, 10/13/04)

Richard Wolfe: “John Kerry has looked more presidential and more personable as these debates have gone on.” (CNN, 10/13/04)

Perry Bacon, Time Magazine: “And still, Kerry came out looking more presidential…” (CNN, 10/13/04)

Andrea Mitchell: “I think Kerry cleared up any confusion that might have existed about how he as a Catholic was dealing with this very complex issue (abortion).” (MSNBC, 10/13/04)

George Stephanopoulos: “I thought Senator Kerry was most effective on talking about jobs, minimum wage, healthcare and social security.” (ABC, 10/13/04)

"Kerry's answer on health-care costs may be his best yet. He lays out the case against the administration logically and clearly." (Kit Seeyle, New York Times online, 10/13/04)

"In response to the flu vaccine, Bush narrowly focuses on the question and tells people not to get a flu shot. Kerry smartly takes the topic back to health care." (Kit Seeyle, New York Times online, 10/13/04)

Chris Wallace: "I thought perhaps because of the subject matter that John Kerry did better in the second half on subjects like minimum wage which the president seemed somewhat uncomfortable on." (Fox News, 10/13/04)

Mark Shields: “I thought Kerry's best answer by far was on the assault weapons. When the President begged off, it was Bob Schieffer's question to him Jim, why didn't you, you said you'd sign it, why didn't you lift a finger to do it, he said well they told me in Congress they didn't have the votes to do it and he said I would have gone to Tom Delay, and said we're going to have a fight, we'll go to the country on this. I thought that was probably Kerry's best answer. (PBS, 10/13/04)

Chris Matthews: “Senator Kerry tonight was able to score on the class issue.” (MSNBC, 10/13/04)

Tom Brokaw: “I think that they were seeing on the war issue that John Kerry had tapped into something out there in America. That there were doubts even among the president’s supporters on the Republican side of the agenda and especially in a lot of those traditionally red states where they have a lot of people overseas and beginning to wonder if this was going well or not. So they had to move it; move the agenda, if you will, off the war and harder onto the social issues.” (MSNBC, 10/13/04)

Ron Reagan: “George Bush made a mistake. Kerry quoted him accurately as it turns out in saying he’s not really worried about Osama bin Laden and Bush came back and said, well I don’t recall ever saying anything like that, we’ll you’ll see the clip of him saying exactly that tomorrow.” (MSNBC 10:32 pm)

Mark Shields: “I think Kerry is far more factual.” (PBS, 10/13/04)

Brian Williams: “We heard the name Osama Bin Laden mentioned again tonight and tonight our fact checkers found the President in a major contradiction. Here is what the President said on stage tonight in response to a charge by Sen. Kerry (Bush clip, exaggerations). But here is what the President said about Bin Laden in March of 2002 (Bush clip saying he is not concerned about Bin Laden). (NBC, 10/13/04)

Chris Jansing: “He painted the president as some one who led us to a misguided war, who has put Americans at risk because they don't have health insurance, who has lost more jobs than any president.” (MSNBC, 10/13/04)

George Stephanopoulos: Most Americans believe we’re going in the wrong direction right now. (ABC, 10/13/04)

Jeff Greenfield: “I think to the extent that the Republicans were looking for the president to lay the heavy lumber on John Kerry, that did not happen. And so if we’ve gone this last ten days with Kerry slowly moving up on Bush, I don’t see anything in this debate that will change that.” (CNN, 10/13/04)

John King: “I do think Republicans will agree that the president was perhaps not emphatic or focused enough in doing as much as he wanted to do to calling the Senate record into play and put the liberal label on Senator Kerry.” (CNN, 10/13/04)

Bob Novak: “Bush looks wishy-washy on the assault-weapons ban.” (cnn.com, 10/13/04)

Richard Wolfe: “John Kerry, I thought, took this one by points. The president really needed to get a big victory tonight and he fell short of that. You know, he beat himself in the previous debates, but that really wasn’t good enough.” (CNN, 10/13/04)

"Bush seems more on edge than Kerry. His voice is rising, almost to a shout. And he pounds his hand for emphasis. Kerry is trying to show he is cool, calm and collected." (Kit Seeyle, New York Times online, 10/13/04)

Chris Matthews: “I think the president had sort of an unhappy look but it was a very controlled and disciplined look. He was obviously told ‘they’re looking at you, don’t put on a show.’ But he didn’t look happy. He wasn’t used to this kind of brow-beating.” (MSNBC, 10/13/04)

Bob Novak: “Bush's chuckles are not so good.” (cnn.com, 10/13/04)

It must be late. I'm agreeing with Bob Novak way too much lately. :shk:

Just watched it for the second time (like I did all debates). First time watch Bush. Second time watch Kerry. I think it was Kerry's best. He literally gets better and better as his momentum builds.

I'm quite pleased. I just like the heck out of Kerry more and more.


No BS.



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 01:33 AM
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I agree with fredT (hey that rhymes) the relevancey of this debate is purely the spectacle and not the point/counter-point argumanetation of policy issues.

Allthough to me the funniest thing is that after these two clowns have "debated" they ask the even less educated public to decide who "won".



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 01:34 AM
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Hey Fred, if I supported Bush I'd say the debates didn't matter, either. That's the best way to put a good face on Bush's hilariously bad performances.



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 01:40 AM
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I get off on it, I admit. It is true, Its more of the same. But it is fun to spin it, depending what side your on. Like this:
Debates:
#1Kerry sharp/Bush tired
#2Kerry sharp/Bush sharp
#3kerry tired/Bush sharp

I like Bush's answer about his woman. Have to daghters. I can relate



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 01:41 AM
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RANT

Doggone, it'll take a week to read that post you've got.
Anyway, I'll agree that winning matters, like when Bush will be re-elected to the White House Nov. 2.


Don't take it to heart though. Better luck in maybe....8 years from now?



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 02:11 AM
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Originally posted by Intelearthling


Anyway, I'll agree that winning matters, like when Bush will be re-elected to the White House Nov. 2.




Sure bush will be in the whitehouse come the 2nd of november but... election won't have anything to do with it just like last time!



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 02:20 AM
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Its sad, if Kerry wins. It will be from a truelly, honest election. But if Bush wins, it will be from lieing and cheating. Unbelieveable!!

If Kerry wins, I'll be the first to congradulate the lebs. And go on making the best of my life. To bad the lebs live by a diffrent reality



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 02:24 AM
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If kerry wins i wouldn't trust the result anymore than that of bush... come on to beat a cheater you have to cheat more than him, or not?



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 02:35 AM
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So if Bush wins, he beat a cheater, that could'nt cheat as good as he cheats.
WHew...lol
Thats hard to follow.
I think there alot of passion on both sides.
Cheating would distroy either one of them ....remember watergate



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 02:42 AM
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I think for most of us on ATS we've been tuned into and discussing both parties rhetoric for a while now. Some americans don't stay up on current events and are not interested in politics so the primetime nationally televised debates are going to be the reference point they look to when they go to vote. I think we forget that our group of members here are more interested in politics and current events than the average joe. Even though the candidates spend 99% of their time repeating rhetoric to us they might be telling some for the first time. Just a thought.

On another note, I thought Bush came off too defensive and sarcastic. Pretty darn good showing for Kerry. But in the end I don't like either of them. Both are vote pandering politicians willing to say or do anything to win. Tisk, tisk. I read the Michael Bednarik(spelling?) thread and liked him.
But I also think that he is vote pandering by saying he would order an immediate pull out from Iraq upon being sworn in. I think that's to get the vote of everyone opposed to the war and is not a viable scenerio. It would have been interesting to have him in the debate. Especially since he's pro legalization , if you know what I mean.

doctorduh



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 02:49 AM
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I think the debates are a good way to let people look at their options and make a decision... especially those who dont actually follow politics but vote coz they feel they should...

Anyways to tell you the truth i used to enjoy coming on here and getting firey at you conservatives and all that jazz... but honestly i just want it to be over already... Either way both candidates suck, but at least with kerry theres a chance of having a decent leader of the free world



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 02:51 AM
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Originally posted by Intelearthling
RANT

Doggone, it'll take a week to read that post you've got.
Anyway, I'll agree that winning matters, like when Bush will be re-elected to the White House Nov. 2.


Don't take it to heart though. Better luck in maybe....8 years from now?


Haha! What is this? A sporting event for you people? I am looking forward to when this election is over.



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 03:05 AM
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Originally posted by FredT
Lets be really honest here. The Debates are nothing but a dog and pony show.


Aren't most things merely for the sake of appearence? Especially in America! Now don't get me wrong as I would rather have them then not if only for the benefit of those whom wish to watch it, but you can always change the channel and find some equally annoying crap if you so desire. Or you can choose to turn it off. Seems as though you have made the choice that I have.



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 03:50 AM
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If only most of us had the time to keep the fire under there feet on the campain promises. But, it is said this is going to the largest voter turnout in a long time. If I can convert one lib, my time is worth it. The exchange of idea's is the important part of the debate



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 04:31 AM
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Whether or not it was genuine, I can't say. Nonetheless, I am allowed my fantasies right? So, for me, the best part of the debate was when they complimented one another, and spoke highly of their families. It might have been for show, but it was nice to atleast pretend briefly that there was some genuine heartfelt compassion between the two people up for leadership.

If it was an honest display, then that atleast shows they have the facility for it, and willingness to show it. That's something often sorely lacking in public speaking events in the political arena.




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