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Columbus Day: Celebrating a holocaust

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posted on Oct, 13 2004 @ 05:44 PM
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This is something that is not taught in American Schools, but this is something that is important. Being 1/2 American Indian myself, this does hold a personal place in my heart as well. I am suprised to see this article on MSNBC, but is it a good one. During the holiday, instead of celebrating, we should all reflect on the days of killing the native people in order to build the society we have here. Forgetting the past will lead us to trouble in the future.


Article from MSNBC
DENVER - While Americans celebrate Columbus Day, American Indians remember one little toddler who played on the quiet banks of Sand Creek, until the morning in 1864 when the American soldiers came.

''Then, as one of the cavalrymen later told it, while his compatriots were slaughtering and mutilating the bodies of all the women and all the children they could catch, he spotted the boy trying to flee,'' wrote David Stannard in ''American Holocaust.''

''There was one little child, probably three years old, just big enough to walk through the sand,'' wrote a Calvary man.

''The Indians had gone ahead, and this little child was behind following after them. The little fellow was perfectly naked, traveling on the sand. I saw one man get off his horse, at a distance of about seventy-five yards, and draw up his rifle and fire he missed the child. Another man came up and said, 'Let me try the son of a bitch; I can hit him.'

''He got down off his horse, kneeled down and fired at the little child, but he missed him. A third man came up and made a similar remark, and fired, and the little fellow dropped.''

-cut-

Majority exterminated
Overall, 95 percent were obliterated.

''What this means is that, on average, for every 20 Natives alive at the moment of European contact when the lands of the Americas teemed with numerous tens of millions of people only one stood in their place when the bloodbath was over.''

While remembering the millions that were tortured, enslaved, murdered and eliminated by spread of diseases, Stannard said it is important to remember that each was a sacred and treasured human life.

-cut-

The Commission on Human Rights of the Organization of American States observed that 40,000 people simply ''disappeared'' in Guatemala during the 15 years preceding 1986. Another 100,000 were openly murdered.

''That is the equivalent, in the United States, of more than 4 million people slaughtered or removed under official government decree - a figure that is almost six times the number of American battle deaths in the Civil War, World War I, World War II, the Korean War and the Vietnam War combined.''


[edit on 13-10-2004 by JCMinJapan]

[edit on 13-10-2004 by JCMinJapan]



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 11:32 AM
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People back then had primitive attitudes, it was obvious that white men had a sense of superiority over other colored human beings... I'm sorry what happened back then, it still happened back in the 60s.
Women and children were sent to camps created by the government so that they could forget about their heritage and start learning the white man's heritage, culture ect...

Bongo drums fire dances pow wow's were banned from the Indian culture.
It was brutal how could this happen in the USA? Government intervention, people put too much trust in the government, and while the government is doing prejudiced things many people become ignorant and blind to the truth.

Thanks for sharing this article... I didn't know anything about this.



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by TrueLies
People back then had primitive attitudes,


Yes, back in 40-45 we where primitive, 6.000.000 Jews, 20.000.000 Russians.

Dresden, Hiroshima, Hanoi, Killing Fields, Irak 2004, does not count....all in the name of democracy


Back then is NOW, history is future and soon the future will be history, people of all time are the same, think the same and act the same, or do you realy think that we -all of a sudden, within a timespan of 300/400 years- start to act as peacefull and civilized creatures?

Keep on dreaming.
People never learn.



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 03:20 PM
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Ok, you misinterpreted what I said....

Our enemies are currently wearing suits and ties... A formal looking being, but an enemy underneath.

Back then was primitive, now it's more politically correct, although underneath the sheets, it's fairly obvious the tactics are as dehumanizing as they were back then, your right.



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 10:45 PM
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Originally posted by JCMinJapan
This is something that is not taught in American Schools, but this is something that is important. Being 1/2 American Indian myself, this does hold a personal place in my heart as well. I am suprised to see this article on MSNBC, but is it a good one. During the holiday, instead of celebrating, we should all reflect on the days of killing the native people in order to build the society we have here. Forgetting the past will lead us to trouble in the future.


Article from MSNBC
DENVER - While Americans celebrate Columbus Day, American Indians remember one little toddler who played on the quiet banks of Sand Creek, until the morning in 1864 when the American soldiers came.





Ok this is 372 years, three hundred and seventy-two years, after Columbus! What does this have to do with celebrating a great explorer?

[edit on 14-10-2004 by Carseller4]



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 11:36 PM
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No one is celebrating the deaths of Indians. That is pure BS.

That is like saying celebrating the 4th of July is celebrating every death in the revolutionary war. You are taking it out of context.

No one is denying that people were killed, raped or anything else. But it is glorifying the discovery of America by a great explorer, not the injustice done to American Indians.



posted on Oct, 15 2004 @ 02:08 AM
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Taking it out of context?!?!?

He is putting it IN context!

Great post there, we need constant reminders of the inhumanity we are capable of.

Those who forget the past are condemmed to repeat it. (not sure who said that.)

OR on a lighter note

Those who forget the pasta are condemmed to re-heat it.



posted on Oct, 15 2004 @ 03:20 AM
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No - the point of Columbus day is not to celebrate the fact that American Indians were killed and raped, it is to celebrate the fact that this place was found so we could have such a great nation here today.



posted on Oct, 15 2004 @ 03:56 AM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man
No - the point of Columbus day is not to celebrate the fact that American Indians were killed and raped, it is to celebrate the fact that this place was found so we could have such a great nation here today.


He said "great" just after "..the fact that American Indians were killed and raped.." its's in the same sentence even!



Priceless comedy.. really you sould go on the roaad with an act like that!



posted on Oct, 15 2004 @ 05:59 AM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man
No - the point of Columbus day is not to celebrate the fact that American Indians were killed and raped, it is to celebrate the fact that this place was found so we could have such a great nation here today.


Nothing good happend by the "finding". The natives had already found it...there was nothing there to find.

Columbus landing there just created destruction. I do not see any reason to celebrate it.

The "great" nation that exists today was built and founded on the destruction of a wonderful nation.



posted on Oct, 15 2004 @ 06:12 AM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man
No - the point of Columbus day is not to celebrate the fact that American Indians were killed and raped, it is to celebrate the fact that this place was found so we could have such a great nation here today.


Do we want the world to forget the holocaust during WWII? Well, that led to a more peaceful world....should we celebrate it?
Dropping the Atomic Bomb on Japan lead to a more peaceful world... Should we celebrate it?
Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor brought around a more peaceful world... Should we celebrate it?
The attack on the Twin Towers lead to freeing afghanistan and making it a freer country... Should the attack be celebrated?
The act of slavery brought around human rights issues and made this world a bit more equal for all races... should that be celebrated?

Should I go on?


What I am trying to say, is that YES, some good things may come out of the bad things that happen. But, the point is to never forget. They do not teach the genocide or these famous stories in American Schools. We spend maybe a few pages on the plight of the Indians, and unless you are actually interested in it, you will not understand the depth of what really happened. We should not hide our own deplorable history. It does not make us less of a country now, but one that lives in reality instead of trying to hide it while making other countries remember theirs. Columbus Day should be a day of mouring, just like Pearl Harbor, Sept 11, and many other sad days in our past. Not a celebration.

[edit on 15-10-2004 by JCMinJapan]



posted on Oct, 15 2004 @ 06:37 AM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man
No one is celebrating the deaths of Indians. That is pure BS.

No one is denying that people were killed, raped or anything else. But it is glorifying the discovery of America by a great explorer, not the injustice done to American Indians.

A great explorer!? You think that's what your celebrating? Columbus didn't "discover" America to begin with! How can you discover something inhabited...WE were already here.....Before Columbus sailed the Atlantic, he was a slave trader for the Portuguese, transporting West African people to Portugal to be sold as slaves. The Columbus legacy is steeped in blood, violence, and death.


Columbus Day: Native American Perspective
teacherlink.ed.usu.edu...
prestwidge.com...

www.nps.gov...
www.worldwideschool.org...




[edit on 10/15/2004 by LadyV]



posted on Oct, 15 2004 @ 07:20 AM
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Columbus did not discover The America's he invaded them!

Yeah he was an explorer alright, he came to the America's to look for gold and other precious minerals to take back to Spain.
But he took back a dozen or so Arawak Indians from Haiti instead, creating an international slave trade that persisted for years. He shipped about 5000 Native American slaves to Europe. And just about wiped out the rest. Those that refused to cooperate had their ears or nose cut off.
And his invasion led to the great American land grab by the Euro's, and the extermination of numerous Native American cultures.
And did you know Columbus never even set eyes on mainland America?
Puerto Rica was the closest he came.
John Cabot came after Columbus's "success" in reaching the Americas allowing the English to claim the America's as theirs.

He wasn't even the first European to come to America. It has been proved that Vikings sailed to New England around 1000 ad. And what about the Afro-Phoenicians who came here 2,000 yrs ago?

Most of our history has been written by and for white Europeans (and I am one btw) to meet their agenda.
Sure celebrate Columbus, why not celebrate Hitler or Pol Pot while you're at it? They were mass murderers and slave traders to.
Yeah this is a great country, built on the graves of those who have a genuin claim to this land.



posted on Oct, 18 2004 @ 07:03 PM
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Originally posted by ANOK
Most of our history has been written by and for white Europeans (and I am one btw) to meet their agenda.
Sure celebrate Columbus, why not celebrate Hitler or Pol Pot while you're at it? They were mass murderers and slave traders to.
Yeah this is a great country, built on the graves of those who have a genuin claim to this land.



Easy answer to this...... History is written by the winners!



posted on Oct, 18 2004 @ 07:28 PM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man
But it is glorifying the discovery of America by a great explorer, not the injustice done to American Indians.


Sorry, but you are wrong here. Columbus did not "discover" the New World, and was not even the first European to "discover" the New World. Columbus did, however, set out on the first mission to "colonize" the New World, which is a big difference from an actual discovery. Many Americans do not realize that this is a completely different concept, and that many Europeans knew about the Americas long before Columbus set out on his maiden voyage.

So, effectively, if someone said that celebrating Columbus Day is to celebrate the atrocities that he brought with him they would be completely right. Columbus set off on a mission to find a shorter route to India, and not only were they after the spices, but they were on a colonizing mission should the land prove hospitable to the long term aspirations of Europeans.

Disease, rape, pillage, murder, etc. was the legacy of Columbus. Why do you think Columbus' men tried to mutiny agianst him? He pushed them to the limits in order to fulfill HIS wishes, disregarding them completely, and did so with the natives as well.

PS- The first to discover the Americas were the Indians. No one can "discover" a new land if their are already humans living there.



posted on Oct, 18 2004 @ 07:28 PM
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Originally posted by JCMinJapan

Originally posted by ANOK
Most of our history has been written by and for white Europeans (and I am one btw) to meet their agenda.
Sure celebrate Columbus, why not celebrate Hitler or Pol Pot while you're at it? They were mass murderers and slave traders to.
Yeah this is a great country, built on the graves of those who have a genuin claim to this land.



Easy answer to this...... History is written by the winners!


I didn't realise I was asking a question there.
So you consider murderers and slave drivers winners?
Do you think it was a fair race?
I don't think the natives were participating in a win or loose situation by choice. Many of them welcomed the invaders only to have their land and homes taken away from them. Then they were shipped away to be slaves.
It wasn't all cowboys and indians like in the movies...lol
We propagandize the population with movies to brush the truth under the carpet.
They didn't win anything, they took it by force!



posted on Aug, 10 2012 @ 09:30 AM
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I ran across this thread by simply wondering around ATS. I read the all the replies in this thread to see the direction this discussion had gone. Let me share my take on this.

It would appear the native Americans do in fact have a point in saying that Columbus day does glorify the murder, rape and torture of countless natives. The natives were not treated as they are now until the Europeans arrived in North America. The suffering native Americans endured did not start until Columbus landed in North America. It was the starting point of an entire civilization being destroyed.

Yes, another civilization replaced the one which was destroyed. Yet, have we considered what would have happened if both civilizations had decided to live together instead of one of them being destroyed? North America could have been a much more peaceful and place if, from the start, Europeans had not enslaved the native people. It is very much a lesson to be learned. We cannot go back and change things at all. What happened is now what has shaped the present. The governments of the western world, and most of the Asian world, are not ready to learn from the mistake of trying to bully and enslave each other. Although, the people being ruled by these governments can, and are, learning form the dark acts committed in the past. It is the people, not government, who will be able to evolve past the desire to destroy other civilizations in order to replace it with something which will be worst.



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