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Kerry's dishonorable discharge?

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posted on Oct, 13 2004 @ 01:27 PM
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n Kerry Is Modern-Day Benedict Arnold

An official Navy document on Senator Kerry's campaign Web site listed as Mr. Kerry's "Honorable Discharge from the Reserves" opens a door on a well kept secret about his military service.
The document is a form cover letter in the name of the Carter administration's secretary of the Navy, W. Graham Claytor. It describes Mr. Kerry's discharge as being subsequent to the review of "a board of officers." This in it self is unusual. There is nothing about an ordinary honorable discharge action in the Navy that requires a review by a board of officers.
Here's the actual document from Kerry's website. Have a look and see if you can explain why John Kerry would be honorably discharged in 1978 by Jimmy Carter's Secretary of the Navy. You'll need Acrobat Reader to open it.
The document is dated February

forums.go.com...



The People Kerry Betrayed-(The POW's and their families, meet them)
www.powmiafamiliesagainstjohnkerry.com...








Navy Contradicts Kerry on Release of Military Records
By Marc Morano
CNSNews.com Senior Staff Writer
September 16, 2004

(CNSNews.com) - The U.S. Navy released documents Wednesday contradicting claims by Democratic Presidential candidate John Kerry that all of his available military records have been released.

The Navy, responding to a Freedom of Information Act request from the legal watchdog group Judicial Watch, also referred interested parties to Kerry's campaign web site for government military documents.

www.cnsnews.com...








Well personally I am glad someone is looking into this as the voters (all sides have the right to know if the man has the chance to be POTUS.


Oct 18 2004

Top GOPers in 'Major Effort' to Uncover Kerry's Naval Discharge





Top Republicans in Washington are trying to determine whether or not John Kerry received an honorable discharge from the Navy, the reporter who's taken the lead in probing Kerry's naval records said Sunday.

"I've already received an indication from high-ranking Republican officials that, basically, there is a major effort going on in Washington to find proof" of the type of discharge Kerry received, New York Sun reporter Thomas Lipscomb told WABC Radio's Steve Malzberg.

Last week, Lipscomb quoted a spokesman for Sen. John Warner, who was secretary of the Navy at the time, as saying his boss "has no recollection that would either confirm or challenge any representation that Senator Kerry received a less than honorable discharge."


www.newsmax.com...












New stuff here folks, its making sense now...The Press has NOT treated the candidates fairly, I already knew it but the evidence keeps mounting.

LINK TO SIGN A PETETION TO REQUEST KERRY SIGN THE FORM BEFORE THE ELECTIONS!

thiscause.org...




EVERYONE should sign this, even if you plan on voting for him. You should know what he is hiding from you. It is your right to know this. DENY IGNORNACE!


(((NOTE to MODS, I have condensed this down quite a bit, and linked for the whole articles, please dont delete this, it is to important. I did not paste the whole thing.....)))


Sign Form 180 & Help The Press Do The Job It Won't


Reportedly, for example, there are between 30 and 100 pages being withheld by the Navy because Kerry has not authorized their release.

Then there are records allegedly out of his control that Kerry says are covered by a contract with the author of his autobiography - a contract the author himself has said does not preclude Kerry from making any and all "secret" documents available to the press. Kerry has been disingenuous on this matter but the press has not tagged him for it.

Then there are medical records stored in separate government archives, along with affiliated Navy records not held directly by the Navy that still have not been unearthed that, just as with critics of Bush claim may exist to answer some of their questions, critics of Kerry also say may exist to answer their questions about the senator.

There also appear to be FBI records on Kerry's anti-war protest activities, as well as other DOD investigative files - if not even CIA files - that might answer a variety of questions about the young reservist in the Navy in the early to mid-1970's. Ditto old Justice Department files and records in other government repositories not yet known.

Kerry easily could help the press do its job by signing the required Form 180 and waiving any Privacy Act restrictions to other records being held by the government.

But he has not - and the press has said virtually nothing at the same time that, for example, the Associated Press went to court (and properly won, I say) a Freedom of Information Act demand for Bush's records. (Of course, the reality was and is that DOD has continued to look for records and making them public when found. But the way the AP FOIA case was reported generally failed to mention such facts thus leaving the public with an impression that Bush et al were stonewalling the release of records.)

That said and unless I've missed something, the AP and other press outlets have not gone to court on FOIA requests for similar Kerry records. And they certainly have not sought to challenge Kerry and his campaign (and supporters) to cough up such records, as they demand of Bush et al.

www.freerepublic.com...


www.insightmag.com...













New Oct 14
This is getting more interesting by the day!



Kerry Lost Security Clearance!

However, the Navy immediately pulled Kerry’s security clearance. He became a Naval Reserve officer who was known not to be trusted. He kept his commission, but lost all access to any classified information. In the words of one of the now-retired agents, “Lieutenant Kerry wasn’t cleared to know what time it was!”

The bottom line is, Kerry was on the Intelligence Committee of the Senate after the Paris fiasco and another trip to support the Moscow-backed Sandinistas in Nicaragua.

Today, he couldn’t get a security clearance to pull KP duty, but he wants to be Commander in Chief of all our military in the War on Terrorism!

www.freerepublic.com...



Maybe this is why he wont sign the form 180. This could be big if true!

www.nysun.com...
More Info below...


I have found some new info but I cant colaborate it yet, but it is important.



"John Kerry certainly is following in the Clinton tradition.

Unlike President George W. Bush, former Vice President Al Gore and most candidates for office, Kerry refuses to allow the Pentagon to release his military records. Speculations are rife, from his Purple Hearts, to criteria about his medals, and why Kerry did not receive an honorable discharge until March 2001, nearly 30 years after his service ended on July 1, 1972.

No explanation has been offered.

Informed guys in the Pentagon believe Kerry originally was discharged in the 1970s with a "general" discharge and used his pro-Clinton votes during the impeachment of Boy Bill to apply political pressure for an upgrade. Obviously, his military records would contain material on his appeal, and might explain the 30-year delay. "


*************************************************

"..Informed guys in the Pentagon believe Kerry originally was discharged in the 1970s with a "general" discharge and used his pro-Clinton votes during the impeachment of Boy Bill to apply political pressure for an upgrade. Obviously, his military records would contain material on his appeal, and might explain the 30-year delay..."
That is plausible... Probably the reason he didn't sign Form 180.

******************************************
If a group can sue and a judge can order that the Pentagon release any and all papers regarding President Bush's military service, why then can't the same thing be done to John "I have 3 Purple Hearts" Kerry?

***************************************
"But here are some irrefutable facts:


Kerry was a commissioned officer in the U.S. Navy

Kerry was an official of Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW), a self-styled revolutionary organization giving aid and comfort to our enemies

Kerry was and is a U.S. senator

Kerry was and is in violation of the U.S. Constitution. "

***********************************************

Rebuttal:

Unlike President George W. Bush, former Vice President Al Gore and most candidates for office, Kerry refuses to allow the Pentagon to release his military records. Speculations are rife, from his Purple Hearts, to criteria about his medals, and why Kerry did not receive an honorable discharge until March 2001, nearly 30 years after his service ended on July 1, 1972. No explanation has been offered. Informed guys in the Pentagon believe Kerry originally was discharged in the 1970s with a "general" discharge and used his pro-Clinton votes during the impeachment of Boy Bill to apply political pressure for an upgrade.
With all due respect to this reporter, he really needs to be more careful with his research.

Kerry was NOT Honorably Discharged in 2001.

The only document with a 2001 date is a DD-215 that he used to "correct" two campaign stars on his Vietnam Service Medal to four campaign stars. It turns out that Karry was only entitled to the original two.

Kerry was Honorably Discharged on 16 February 1978 during the Carter Administration.

That still leaves open the question as to why such a late discharge since Kerry's obligated service, including service in the Ready Reserve and Inactive Standby Reserve would have been completed in 1972.

Although this reporter flat out blows it with his "Kerry was Honorably Discharged in 2001" blooper, it is very plausible that Kerry may have upgraded a General Discharge in the early 1970's during the Carter Amnesty program.

That may be why the Kerry campaign has tried to hard to deceive the news media into believing that Kerry was Honorably Discharged in 1970 and that Kerry was Honorably Discharged prior to his Vietnam veterans Against the War activities


****************************************************


NAVY TELLS JUDICIAL WATCH IT WILL NOT RELEASE ADDITIONAL KERRY DOCUMENTS (31 Pages Withheld)
JudicialWatch ^ | Sep 16, 2004 | Tom Fitton


Posted on 09/16/2004 11:07:09 PM PDT by fight_truth_decay


NAVY TELLS JUDICIAL WATCH IT WILL NOT RELEASE ADDITIONAL KERRY DOCUMENTS

Navy Personnel Command Confirms Additional Unreleased Kerry Service Records Exist

“No comment” from Navy on FOIA Legal Review of Kerry Records

No Record of Kerry’s Discharge Certificate Maintained by Navy
www.freerepublic.com...



**************************************************

This one is good!

Military Record

Unlike McCain, Bush, and Gore, Kerry has adamantly refused to authorize the release of his military records. Most think it's because of his phony battle medals. I think the real reason is below. He was not granted an Honorable Discharge until March 2001, almost 30 years after his ostensible service term had ended!

This is very much out of the ordinary, and highly suspect. There are 5 classes of Discharge: Honorable, General, Other Than Honorable, Bad Conduct, and Dishonorable. My guess is that he was discharged in the '70s, but not honorably. He appealed this sometime while Clinton was doing trouser-tricks in the Oval Office. Political pressure was applied, and the Honorable Discharge was then granted.

Its a forum link, but I can not post the whole thing as it will be cut, so follow it.

www.rightnation.us...


John Kerry, unqualified for office?
John Kerry did some "pro bono" work for the North Vietnamese after he returned from his short Swift Boat tour in 'Nam. Performance of that work may have disqualified him from holding public office.

There was also a policy in force at the time for personnel discharging from Active Duty before their committments were up, and Kerry may have violated that policy.

In a real bombshell, the informant says that Kerry had a Dishonorable discharge, which Bill Clinton converted to an Honorable discharge in 2001.

If this information is true, Kerry is unqualified to be a Senator, and, if elected, will be the first POTUS to have achieved the office by perpetrating a Federal Fraud. Grounds for impeachment, sure, but why do we need to go to that thrash? Let's get a groundswell going (remember, we just did it to Dan Rather) and demand that he release his military records by way of proving these charges untrue.

rivrdog.typepad.com...

***********************************************









ORIGINAL POST.....................................................

































Mystery Surrounds Kerry's Navy Discharge
BY THOMAS LIPSCOMB - Special to the Sun
October 13, 2004

An official Navy document on Senator Kerry's campaign Web site listed as Mr. Kerry's "Honorable Discharge from the Reserves" opens a door on a well kept secret about his military service.

The document is a form cover letter in the name of the Carter administration's secretary of the Navy, W. Graham Claytor. It describes Mr. Kerry's discharge as being subsequent to the review of "a board of officers." This in it self is unusual. There is nothing about an ordinary honorable discharge action in the Navy that requires a review by a board of officers.



www.nysun.com...





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posted on Oct, 13 2004 @ 01:38 PM
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Looks like a DISHONORABLE DISCHARGE to me.

And this guy has the gall to run on his military record.



posted on Oct, 13 2004 @ 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by moxyone
Looks like a DISHONORABLE DISCHARGE to me.

And this guy has the gall to run on his military record.


This just might be the smoking gun, everyone here thinks I am so Pro Bush, but in actuality, I am anti-Kerry......

Any other vote, other then Bush, except for Nader, is a vote for Kerry and if what this article states is true...there is nothing the Kerry camp can do to spin this one off...Bush will win by a landslide...IF its true....


Spin away folks......



posted on Oct, 13 2004 @ 01:50 PM
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This will be dismissed by the media at large, excuses will be made, RANT will obfuscate, "what about Bush" will be the mantra... Blah, blah, blah. The truth is John Kerry can't allow his military to be scrutinized, merely propped up for his own political ends.

X__________________________________

Dare you to do it John, I just dare you to.



posted on Oct, 13 2004 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by Mirthful Me
This will be dismissed by the media at large, excuses will be made, RANT will obfuscate, "what about Bush" will be the mantra... Blah, blah, blah. The truth is John Kerry can't allow his military to be scrutinized, merely propped up for his own political ends.

X__________________________________

Dare you to do it John, I just dare you to.



Thats all it would take, and as a veteran, I can see it as the only honorable thing to do......SWEET!



posted on Oct, 13 2004 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by Mirthful Me
This will be dismissed by the media at large, excuses will be made, RANT will obfuscate, "what about Bush" will be the mantra... Blah, blah, blah. The truth is John Kerry can't allow his military to be scrutinized, merely propped up for his own political ends.

X__________________________________

Dare you to do it John, I just dare you to.


I assure you no obfuscation since nobody still knows what the hell any of you are talking about. Look up the Navy's final findings when Swifties demanded investigation of all this nonsense oh so long ago. I'm not even bothering to link it. You already know it. Yet you persist in your unAmerican and unsubstantiated and undeserving of continued rebuttal assaults on the Navy's findings anyhow.


You've been using these phantom slings to counter deadly accurate bazookas aimed at Little Lord Bushikins a while now. And not only do the never ending slings and arrows from your clan (as they cower behind crumbling walls) not hurt the righteous, they kind of indicate the rampant spread of some infectious mad cow disease within your camp. No offense Mirth. You know I appreciate the self retardation of your efforts more than anyone, as I'm getting quite tired and bored with all this.

And as much as I'll enjoy this third debate win and welcoming of the latest surge of Independent mercenaries to the charge for outing the deranged King, it's sadly not even sport anymore. So eat, drink and be Mirthful. And don't stop firing in the air on my account. But you'll curry no dignified moonings from me by screaming my name from the parapets.

Though the imagery of you holding your own poo screaming Raaaaaaaant! in your final hours warms me far greater than the bonfires of our assembled liberators (still ever so slightly out of your reach).

I will, however, make an appropriate donation in the name of any Republican War Widows I encounter when all this nasty business is over.



posted on Oct, 13 2004 @ 02:33 PM
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without ranting and saying absolutely nothing, please answer the following questions.

why was Kerry discharged in 1978, not 1972.

what did he do for the navy between 1972-1978.

why were his medals reissued in 1985?

why won't he sign form 180?



posted on Oct, 13 2004 @ 02:41 PM
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Edsinger, I like your funny post I realy do,

Lets see.......and this is from your link.




TextThe document is dated February 16, 1978. But Mr. Kerry's military commitment began with his six-year enlistment contract with the Navy on February 18, 1966. His commitment should have terminated in 1972. It is highly unlikely that either the man who at that time was a Vietnam Veterans Against the War leader, John Kerry, requested or the Navy accepted an additional six year reserve commitment. And the Claytor document indicates proceedings to reverse a less than honorable discharge that took place sometime prior to February 1978.




Honrable discharge took pleace in February of 1978 right?




TextThe Nixon administration ran FBI surveillance on Mr. Kerry from September 1970 until August 1972. Finding grounds for an other than honorable discharge, however, for a leader of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, given his numerous activities while still a reserve officer of the Navy, was easier than finding "dirt."



Nixon administration could not find anything dirty still Honorable discharge. Right?




TextFor example, while America was still at war, Mr. Kerry had met with the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong delegation to the Paris Peace talks in May 1970 and then held a demonstration in July 1971 in Washington to try to get Congress to accept the enemy's seven point peace proposal without a single change.



Kerry was "On peace talks" and that has being proven. Right?

Next The "Vietnam War" was technically military assistance to the friendly foreign government of South Vietnam, so actually US never declared war against Vietnam.




TextThere are a number of categories of discharges besides honorable. There are general discharges, medical discharges, bad conduct discharges, as well as other than honorable and dishonorable discharges. There is one odd coincidence that gives some weight to the possibility that Mr. Kerry was dishonorably discharged. Mr. Kerry has claimed that he lost his medal certificates and that is why he asked that they be reissued. But when a dishonorable discharge is issued, all pay benefits, and allowances, and all medals and honors are revoked as well. And five months after Mr. Kerry joined the U.S. Senate in 1985, on one single day, June 4, all of Mr. Kerry's medals were reissued



Humm......so at the end is not proved of all you claim and kerry still have his medals. Right?

Edsinger you need to read more carefully what you post.



posted on Oct, 13 2004 @ 02:46 PM
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Rant, the only offical naval findings that I have seen was that Kerry's medal write ups were done properly and that the awards were given based on the write-ups. I have not seen anything else offically, if I have missed this, please let me know.



posted on Oct, 13 2004 @ 02:55 PM
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I will answer when I have more time, but you can spin all you want, this has to be why he will not sign form 180. The swifties might be right all after all.

IF and I say IF, he got a Dishonorable Discharge....this election is over and you know it. Yeah I know, Bush dodged the draft etc etc etc.......but he got a honorable discharge.....


See the link I posted about the open letter, If true Kerry would be UNQUALIFIED to be President.

THe only thing he can do now is come clean.............



posted on Oct, 13 2004 @ 02:58 PM
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Edsinger guess what is not going to happend is just wishfull thinking. And beside guess what I will love to have Edward as president anyway, he is better looking that kerry



posted on Oct, 13 2004 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by RANT
I assure *SNIP*


Much as my original post foretold (the only prophecy that's come true on this board by the way
), RANT will obfuscate... And create... I made no accusation here, that was a means of diversion that you implemented to deflect the point at hand... Sign the SF-180... and put it all to rest John, come on, you can do it, you are a war hero.

Offer still stands John. (please remember to select an UNDELETED release of separation)

X_________________________

The "how to" of SF-180.

SF-180 (PDF)

Paperwork Monkeys, not just for when the job is “done” anymore…



posted on Oct, 13 2004 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by jrsdls
Rant, the only offical naval findings that I have seen was that Kerry's medal write ups were done properly and that the awards were given based on the write-ups. I have not seen anything else offically, if I have missed this, please let me know.


The Inspector general in response to the litany of charges against Kerry from partisan groups further concluded no additional investigation was warranted. Case closed. Good night Gracy. This stuff has been floated non stop by opponents his entire 20 years in office. It still don't stick.

I understand the need for whisper campaigns. And to revist every "SMOKING GUN" you can as often as you can even if already debunked. But you should also understand nobody is obligated to dignify it.

Besides, get with the program. Rove ordered the attacks to be on Teresa this week. Wait, maybe that's next week. Let me know won't you?

Though frankly on this subject (or any other unsubstantiated Kerry assaults I could name), I'd conversely still like to see the records proving George Bush completed that Domestic Abuse counseling in 2002, but I highly doubt Bush will be returning my phone calls on that one either..



posted on Oct, 13 2004 @ 03:17 PM
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Rant, That was only relating to Kerry's medals, whether they were approved properly. They were, he got them. case closed.


Washington, DC, Sep. 17 (UPI) -- The U.S. Navy Friday found Democratic presidential candidate's John Kerry's Vietnam war service medals to be properly awarded, rejecting a call by a private group for an in-depth review.


washingtontimes.com...

This has nothing to do with his other records. Why does Kerry refuse to sign the 180. President Bush has, What does Kerry have to hide?



posted on Oct, 13 2004 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by RANT
The Inspector general in response to the litany of charges against Kerry from partisan groups further concluded no additional investigation was warranted. Case closed. Good night Gracy. This stuff has been floated non stop by opponents his entire 20 years in office. It still don't stick.

I understand the need for whisper campaigns. And to revist every "SMOKING GUN" you can as often as you can even if already debunked. But you should also understand nobody is obligated to dignify it.

Besides, get with the program. Rove ordered the attacks to be on Teresa this week. Wait, maybe that's next week. Let me know won't you?

Though frankly on this subject (or any other unsubstantiated Kerry assaults I could name), I'd conversely still like to see the records proving George Bush completed that Domestic Abuse counseling in 2002, but I highly doubt Bush will be returning my phone calls on that one either..


Oh great "Veiler of Truth", mystical "Sequester of Requests", divine "Shell Gamer of Veracity".. None of what you have posted has anything to do with John Kerry's steadfast resistance to signing a SF-180 for full and complete release of all his military records (no, this hasn't been done yet).

p.s. While we are at it, how about Teresa's Tax Returns... No dice there either?


p.p.s. George Bush didn't make domestic violence the lynchpin of his campaign... Apples and oranges... But nice try.



posted on Oct, 13 2004 @ 03:33 PM
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I will answer when I have more time, but you can spin all you want, this has to be why he will not sign form 180. The swifties might be right all after all.


Why hasn't Bush signed it?

Is it because going AWOL doesn't look good?

Regardless of who, when, why, what, and how....Kerry's medals are official, and (as the article states) you don't get to keep them with a dishonorable discharge...

You're dealing in "what ifs?"....


Kerry isn't an angel, and more than a little crooked, but compared to Shrub, he's straight as a frickin' arrow....



posted on Oct, 13 2004 @ 03:37 PM
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I tracked down the references mentioned on the Kerry's discharge. Reference a and b are borth linked to from the repealed US code. Reference a basically just say what the President, and the Secretary are responsible for discharging officers, and reference c is the implementation of that, although I can't isn't available online. The relevant statute under reference b reads

(a) An officer of a reserve component who has at least five years of service as a commissioned officer may not be separated from that component without his consent except—
(1) under an approved recommendation of a board of officers convened by an authority designated by the Secretary concerned; or
(2) by the approved sentence of a court-martial.
(b) Subsection (a) does not apply to any of the following:
(1) A separation under section 12684, 14901, or 14907 of this title.
(2) A dismissal under section 1161 (a) of this title.
(3) A transfer under section 12213, 12214, 14514, or 14515 of this title.
(4) A separation of an officer who is in an inactive status in the Standby Reserve and who is not qualified for transfer to the Retired Reserve or is qualified for transfer to the Retired Reserve and does not apply for such a transfer.


Basically, it looks like Kerry couldn't be removed from the Navy without his permission, unless he was absent or got a court-martial. From the look of things, Kerry didn't want to leave the Navy reserve, but he was forced out by politics. Notice, there is no court-martial or other procedures to remove Kerry for any wrongdoing.



posted on Oct, 13 2004 @ 03:37 PM
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Dude, neither I nor Kerry is dodging anything but falling in Bush's trap of giving Regis his "final answer" about 6 times over regarding "okay, NOW I've released all my military records."


Yet Bush (to use your tact) "hides" behind National Security to not let us see his Driving Record, Driver's License and Criminal Arrest record? Didn't Bush mention something about family values in all his campaigns?

But back to Military record hair pulling. Kerry has nothing to defend. When FoxNews makes a story of it that takes, maybe he will and shut you up.
But as Bush's responsive floundering to every little accustion proved, it serves only the opposition to dignify baseless accusations. Bush screwed up big time on that, and you can't make Kerry follow suit pretending there's "smoking guns" behind every non issue. If anything's even there, can't you get something leaked or forged by someone on your team? Come on. This is weak, even for a whisper.

I have no clue what the "sign this" people think is going on (some Military & Media & CIA Conspiracy to make Kerry President?), but I assure you smarter people than you against Kerry let it lay. Not every upstart demanding to see a Presidential candidate's shoe size gets his way unfortunately as Bush has proved with all he's still hiding.



posted on Oct, 13 2004 @ 03:56 PM
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It's simply unbelievable what lengths people will go to..

BushFans, you're on a sinking ship and the harder you try to salvage it, the more ridiculous and shrill you look/sound.


It's beyond pathetic. But keep defending the indefensible! It's funny as hell.



posted on Oct, 13 2004 @ 03:59 PM
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Ed, there you go again. Trying to discredit Kerry once more. Your stupid link is made up by the neocons just for you..to link and spread the word.
George wishes he had Kerrys service record. He doesnt have a record of serving his country at all..an obscured record bought and paid for by daddy.
Tell it to somebody who'll believe your lies.




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