NEWS: 39 Million Americans In Working Poor Families

"we pay my husbands social security taxes evey year. sometimes the EIC covers it sometimes it doesn't. this year we owed a balance of 755.00 after EIC AND AS OF OCT 1, we now owe 2289.57. next year at tax time we will pay almost all of that off with the EIC, but it is still not enough. my husband is selfemployed. we pay "other" taxes everyyear, just not "income" taxes. "

Social Security is not a Tax per say, it is an entitlement program that you (at the point of a gun) pay into for a future benefit. I am not supporting or defending this horrible program-just pointing out that it doesn't fit in the tax category. The EIC is intended to cover other taxes-like sales tax so that you are recompensed for it. (actually it's more like a transfer program where money is taken from a net taxpayer and given to a non-income tax paying family to buy votes, but I digress)

"we did not even get that tax rebate from bush, because we don't pay income taxes"

Well...it's pretty hard to get a rebate when you didn't pay in the first place....


"yes, i have a computer (donated from a friend, very old) and i have internet acess because i only pay 4.95/mo. i gave myself this because i quit smoking(!!!) and i needed to take free classes on the net to keep up my education.alot of those business tax breaks, deductions, etc do not help my husbands business."

Good deal on the internet for $4.95...keep an eye on the garage sales-maybe you can pick up a newer machine on the cheap..you'd be amazed what's for sale out there. And congrats on kicking the smoking habit-a big plus for your health and finances.

" i'm not complaining, we do not live beyond our means, and there are a few other factors that reduced our income in the past 4 yrs, but it has only been in the last year that we've needed foodstamps, because of a health problem my husband developed."

I'm sorry to hear that and I hope he's better soon.


"what i'm saying is the complaining i hear about lazy, poor, live off the govn. people comes from ignorance. not everybody wants to stand in line for hours, then fill out form after form,be treated like your pitiful just to have to admit that just right now you can't feed your kids?"

I understand that and I'm sorry the process is difficult, but you should get the aid you need and deserve.

" that your husband has to do without heart meds so the light bill can get paid? and for what?"

Neither of those are viable options. Two ideas for you; one, check the drug manufacturers website and see if they have a program to give you free/reduced price meds-most of the big companies do. Two, I take a couple of meds and get my Dr. to presribe them in a larger dose 100mg v. 25...then I cut them in 1/4's The 100mg prescipton is a few dollars more, but I get 4x as much! Call the power company and see what they have-if nothing else they can put you on a average cost plan where you pay a level cost every month-it helps with budgeting!

"on welfare, and very few these days qualify, you get a 150.00 a mo., jobtraing/school, free daycare,and foodstamps and medicaid for only up to 2 years.youyhave to work/school. now, for the working poor, i only qualified for foodstamps and partners for healthy children, a fed. program . hopefully i will be able to go back to work soon, and finish school, but we are not the spendthrifts and lazy people you talk about."

Welfare isn't intended to be an ongoing life support program. If your husband is disabled and can't work, Have you contacted the Social Security Administration for disability benefits? That's the program that should help in those cases-I received those checks as a teenager.

" i work hard everyday to raise my children to appreciate the little things in life, not what comes acroos on the tv. we do things together that cost nothing and have more fun than any trip to dineyword. i'm not looking for a handout, its just sometimes someone may need a hand up."

There are plenty of people out there who will happily give you a hand up, but YOU have to find them. If you are a churchgoer, there is an excellent place to start. There is almost always a private charitable organization that can show you how to improve your financial woes-contact United Way for a list of the hundreds of organizations that they are affiliated with or simply look in the phone book. If you need some help-you need to ask!

Life is tough. Frankly, sometimes it sucks. But it isn't up to the Government or someone else to fix it-it's up to you.

Man, I have my work cut out for me today. Last post and then I get back to making money.

"However, in the US, 12.9 million children were living in poverty last year. "

OK, but how do you define poverty? The census lists it at a certain income level which is not a good reflection on lifestyle. If you have a million dollars in the bank collecting 1% interest, according to the census Bureau, you are living in poverty. (Only $10K in income) Tell me how many children were hungry because no adult was able to feed them after their income and available Government assistance. BTW, one of those "questions" asked to come up with those stats was something akin to , 'In the past year has your child ever complained about hunger?' News flash! I hear 'Daddy, I'm hungry, when are we going to eat?' almost daily. Complaining about hunger?


"The US Census Bureau figures for 2001 say that 16% of Americans 65 and older are in poverty. "

That's a real problem. Usually it's a combination of poor planning on the part of our retiree's and a very bad Social Security system. I think that number is a bit high due to the example I showed earlier; income v. wealth.


"In 2002, 34.9 million people, including almost 13 million children, lived in households experiencing "food insecurity," or "the lack of access to enough food to fully meet basic needs at all times due to lack of financial resources." This represents 1 in 10 households in the US."

That is pure BS. The adults responsible for their care are failing them and all the money in the world won't fix that. Programs like Food Stamps and WIC provide plenty of money for basic sustanence. You won't eat steak but I can feed a family of four on $4 (or less) a meal if I have to. I won't even get into school lunches/breakfasts/food banks and the lot.

"These are the most vulnerable among us, who cannot "move to another job, another city, go to school, and improve yourself in general." They cannot appreciably alter their lifestyles to better suit their means. What happens to them in these conditions? "

Actually many can-especially in the case of the elderly. I don't know how many times I've had this conversation with a senior who insists that they must live in the house they've always had with 3 BR and 2 Baths and the two car garage and then complains when they can't afford the heat bill. Sorry Ma'am. Sell the house, invest the proceeds, and move into a small apartment in a lower cost market. Or just get a freakin' reverse mortgage.

"1. Preschool and school-aged children who experience severe hunger have higher levels of chronic illness, anxiety and depression, and behavior problems than children with no hunger."

I'm sure they do! There is no excuse for not feeding your children!

"2. Elderly people who are unable to pay their winter heating bills "literally 'freeze to death" in their own homes after being exposed to dangerously cold indoor temperatures, or are asphyxiated because of improper use of fuels such as charcoal briquettes, which produce carbon monoxide."

Actually, that's pretty rare. They are in much more danger from falls and home fires. Show me a power company that will turn off Granny's heat in the winter and I'll show you a 'Live 5 News Report.' It won't happen if Granny just asks for some help.

3. According to a study done in the UK, growing up in a "poor" household "increased the likelihood of leaving the parental home early for both men and women. For men, it also decreased the probability of higher educational achievement and increased the probability of economic inactivity. For women, it increased the probability of having a child by age 21."

This topic is on Poverty in the US..I know it's worse in the socialist paradises of Western Europe. (and will get even worse as their population ages) Stay on topic.

"Poverty should not be a partisan, political issue. Whether directly or indirectly, it affects every single one of us, and the only way we'll be able to deal with it is to reevaluate our national priorities."

You're right-it's not a partisan issue-it's a common sense issue.

"This really says it all:"

No, it really doesn't. The Federal Government is charged with "Providing for the Common Defense," the vast majority for Education and Social Welfare is handled at the State and local levels. Thus, the national budget is consumed by DoD spending not DoE. (Care to put a column on 'SocSecurity next to that Defense spending cookie pile?)

Once again, Repeat after Old Sargon...'Lie's, Danm Lie's, and Statistics'


Edited for typo's-it's not a conspiracy...




[edit on 13/10/04 by Sargon of Agade]

Justmytype

First of all you and I don't even fit into the demographic on the topic.

That aside.....

Excellent post, I really felt the anger you have toward my views and I can understand your position and I don't blame you. Let me tell you a little about my own personal situation. I am soon to be 26 and I have a 10 month old son and I support my significant other completely off of my salary. It is not easy, and I make less than what you are your wife are pulling in. I had to lower my standards of living because we wouldn�t be able to feed our son otherwise. I itemized my expenses and cut out any excess fat. When I was unemployed and I couldn�t afford my soon to be son healthcare we went with Medicaid so he could have good medical care.

It�s not easy, I never said it was and I am not talking about handouts. Do you want to go to college and maybe try pursuing a different career? There are others out there. Maybe they'll pay more money? If you want to go back to school maybe you should talk to one of the counselors there. They will be able show what financial aid programs that are out there and find something that fits your needs. Are you a member of a minority? There are tons of programs for any minority group in the US. Or maybe the company you work for full time has a tuition reimbursement program. If you can't make ends meat on what you are living off of now you need to look at different avenues to start going down so you can live comfortable.

I'm not going to spend my whole day looking for these programs for you. Maybe you should look at some of the links I have posted below. I just did a quick Google search and came up with these. I'm not trying to sound heartless and I really can understand your frustration. I just know, any of the financial difficulties that I have had in my life, I can blame myself entirely for.

www.fedmoney.org...
www.ed.gov...
www.proposalwriter.com...

So, oh great wise people....

What if you are hurt, and really don't believe that you can work...(I won't even drive the distance I used to to get to work)...but....can't afford the medical attention you need to get the confirmation necessary for the disiablity??

All those nice programs are missing people!!! They are asking, they are being denied!

God, this was my situation when I quit my job.....

a counselor at the school felt my son was depressed, he was....wanted me to take him to counseling....he wasn't insured.
I was insured, made sure of it right after my husband got a job after being laid off for nine months...that was nine months of me working in pain, not seeking medical attention because there was no extra money or health insurance, never taking more than a day off at a time because....company policy!!
the nutty specialist my doctor sent me to for tests decided he needed to test me for something else first....fibermalygia....and thus gave me antidepressants.....which blew my mind, not to mention ate up close to $90 that was to go to food, gas money to get to work, ect.
my sons, all three, decided that they since we couldn't come up with the close that they need for school, they wouldn't go!.......for the life of me, I couldn't come up with the losey $30 bucks I needed to get what they needed from the salvation army thrift store!
About at this point, I quit my job.....
used the last paychecks I had coming to me to take two kids to the doctor...not the one with the depression, I knew they wouldn't cover that one....for other medical problems that were hindering them from going to school..
Since my youngest son was under the age of 16 a nice social service worker appeared at my door, he needed to go, or we'd be visiting family court....I asked help while I was working, and my husband was unemployed, we made too much for them to help me with my medical...
I asked this little social worker for help, again with no real results...oh, I could get another job!!! and oh ya, have you, mom, ever thought of getting some counseling yourself? But, still no help, he made too much money. Heck, I've even had to avoid taking kids to the doctors, simply because I had no way to get them there!

Well, about a year after this, with me sometimes falling when trying to walk....(the medical problem I was trying to get help with), well, I tried to walk, didn't work, I fell, and broke my ankly in two place.
so off to the hospital for the medical care that I needed, but coudln't afford, that wouldn't have been necessary... IF THE IDIOTS WOULD HAVE LISTENED TO ME IN THE FIRST PLACE!!....and of course it's the medical care everyone claims can't be denied me.

Well, if it can't be denied me, then why the heck did it take my husband's boss, calling all over heck, because the doctor the hospital referred me to insisted on a nice $1000 prepayment before he would do a thing about the danged foot!!! Why did it take a state senator calling that doctor's office to convince him to do the operation that I needed before it got done.
Even then, I really didn't want to, but the hospital took my income information and told me that the gov't would help....well, I am now, not able to work, $20,000 in debt, and they didn't help with a danged thing.

My oldest son had his mind set into going into the Navy...between his "inadequate medical records", and his decision to just opt for a ged instead of finishing that last year....(HE DIDN'T HAVE WHAT HE NEEDEED TO FINISH), well, that got shot out the window.

Lived without cable tv.....done that.....
Gone without food....been there, quite often, if you don't believe me, ask the doctor who fixed my foot and yelled at me for not eating right.

Start a business....ya right.....I've got just about an entire website set up, the plans made, at least as far as I am willing to go with them. What I ain't got was the money that was to launch it.....which really wasn't that much....but it went into trying to get my kids straightened out instead. So, I am sitting here waiting for more money to come my way.

You can deny my existance all you want, won't change a thing. I'll just sit here, really quite humored at this point, since, quite frankly, by the time people begin to recocnize that hey, we are telling the truth, hey, they will be in the same spot, and sooner or later, only those "elite" in the world will be paying the taxes and supporting us all! Then, well, do you really believe that they will be paying it?

Originally posted by Sargon of Agade
OK, but how do you define poverty? The census lists it at a certain income level which is not a good reflection on lifestyle. If you have a million dollars in the bank collecting 1% interest, according to the census Bureau, you are living in poverty. (Only $10K in income)

And that happens how often in the real world?

Tell me how many children were hungry because no adult was able to feed them after their income and available Government assistance. BTW, one of those "questions" asked to come up with those stats was something akin to , 'In the past year has your child ever complained about hunger?' News flash! I hear 'Daddy, I'm hungry, when are we going to eat?' almost daily. Complaining about hunger?

Go back and actually read the definitions in the Current Population Survey; the food security module is a joint effort between the USDA and the Census Bureau.

"Households that are classified as hungry are those in which adults have decreased the quality and quantity of food they consume because of lack of money to the point where they are quite likely to be hungry on a frequent basis, or in which children's intake has been reduced due to lack of family financial resources, to the point that children are likely to be hungry on a regular basis and adults' food intake is severely reduced.

"Even when hunger is not present, adults in households determined to be food insecure by the survey are so limited in resources to buy food that they are running out of food, or reducing the quality of food their family eats, or feeding their children unbalanced diets, or skipping meals so their children can eat, in order to adjust to the economic problems that threaten the adequacy of their family's diet."

They're not talking about needing a snack before dinner.

Programs like Food Stamps and WIC provide plenty of money for basic sustanence.... I won't even get into school lunches/breakfasts/food banks and the lot.

Oh, let's do. The "Status Report on Hunger and Homelessness in America's Cities" put out by the United States Conference of Mayors in 2002 states:

"Officials in the [25] survey cities estimate that during the past year requests for emergency food assistance increased by an average of 19 percent, with 100 percent of the cities registering an increase. Requests for food assistance by families with children increased by an average of 17 percent. Requests for emergency food assistance by elderly persons increased by an average 19 percent during the last year, with 92 percent of the cities reporting an increase.
"On average, 16 percent of the requests for emergency food assistance are estimated to have gone unmet during the last year. For families alone, 14 percent of the requests for assistance are estimated to have gone unmet. In 32 percent of the cities, emergency food assistance facilities may have to turn away people in need due to lack of resources.
"Forty-eight percent of the people requesting emergency food assistance were members of families -- children and their parents. Thirty-eight percent of the adults requesting food assistance were employed.
"In 64 percent of the cities emergency food assistance facilities have had to decrease the number of bags of food provided and/or the number of times people can receive food....
"During the past year requests for emergency shelter increased in the survey cities by an average of 19 percent.... Requests for shelter by homeless families alone increased by 20 percent, with 88 percent of the cities reporting an increase.
"An average of ...38 percent of the requests by homeless families ... are estimated to have gone unmet during the last year. In 60 percent of the cities, emergency shelters may have to turn away homeless families due to lack of resources....
"Requests for assisted housing by low-income families and individuals increased in 88 percent of the cities during the last year. Thirty-one percent of eligible low-income households are currently served by assisted housing programs. City officials estimate that low-income households spend an average of 49 percent of their income on housing.
"Applicants must wait an average of 19 months for public housing in the survey cities. The wait for Section 8 Certificates is 21 months, for Section 8 Vouchers, 23 months. Forty-eight percent of the cities have stopped accepting applications for at least one assisted housing program due to the excessive length of the waiting list."

Local govt.'s are barely treading water with regard to these problems. At what point do you think this should become a federal priority?

Show me a power company that will turn off Granny's heat in the winter and I'll show you a 'Live 5 News Report.' It won't happen if Granny just asks for some help.

One of those mythical power companies is Georgia Natural Gas. Back in the winter of 2000-'01 GNG threatened as many as 190,000 customers with shutoff due to nonpayment. The Georgia Public Service Commission had to step in and issue a moratorium on shutoffs because of record high winter heating bills and billing problems caused by deregulation. When all was said and done, GNG was found guilty by the PSC of improperly and illegally disconnecting service to almost 1200 customers. This stuff *does happen.* And please don't reply with "they should've applied to LIHEAP." In 2001, LIHEAP received a total of $2.25 billion...enough to serve only 17% of eligible households.

This topic is on Poverty in the US..I know it's worse in the socialist paradises of Western Europe. (and will get even worse as their population ages) Stay on topic.

So you're saying that poverty affects people differently according to their proximity to the Greenwich Meridian? Must've missed that memo....

If it makes you feel better, Columbia University's Mailman School of Public Health--located right here in the good ol' U.S. of A--has said that "Living in low-income families—families with incomes below 200 percent of the federal poverty level—the amount that research suggests is needed for most families to be economically self-sufficient—exacts a measurable toll on children’s overall healthy development. The intellectual, social-emotional, and physical development of children in low-income families have been shown to lag behind that of their more affluent peers."

The Federal Government is charged with "Providing for the Common Defense," the vast majority for Education and Social Welfare is handled at the State and local levels.

See the above-referenced United States Conference of Mayors report; this problem is too big to be "handled at the State and local levels."

The national budget is consumed by DoD spending not DoE.

Again, we need to reevaluate our priorities as a nation. The Pentagon's budget is more than 5 times greater than that of the next greatest spender, which happens to be Russia (which was an ally, last time I checked). Exactly how much defending do we need?

sources:
www.usmayors.org...
www.nccp.org...
www.macontelegraph.com...
www.acorn.org...

Since I really don't have the time to address all of the issues at this moment-but I shall return to do so-I hit the big one;

"Again, we need to reevaluate our priorities as a nation. The Pentagon's budget is more than 5 times greater than that of the next greatest spender, which happens to be Russia (which was an ally, last time I checked). Exactly how much defending do we need? "

About enough defending so that we don't have 3 million illegals pouring across our southern border annually and so that 757's aren't flying into the WTC...yeah that ought to cover it. (I wonder how many of you statistics include non-citizens???)

The Government isn't the answer to all of your problems-and as to you reference to the prime meridian, it has noting to do with geography, but evertything with a socialist agenda. Now get down to Kerry HQ's and get to work.