Paul Ryan's-Path to the Poorhouse

If Americans who are embracing Rep. Paul Ryan's "Path to Prosperity" -- and that now includes Mitt Romney -- spent a few minutes reviewing a few recent research reports, they just might conclude that the Wisconsin Republican's plan to reduce the deficit might better be renamed the "Path to the Poorhouse" because of what it would mean to the Medicare program and many senior citizens.

While the amount of money beneficiaries would receive would depend on their health status, the average 65-year-old would get $8,000 under the Ryan plan in 2022, the year it would take effect. That's the amount the current Medicare program is expected to spend on the average 65-year-old that year. After 2022, the annual increase in the "premium support" payments would be based on the consumer price index (CPI). And therein lies one of the biggest problems for anyone hoping to live long enough to enroll in Medicare and stay alive for a few years.

Last month the government reported that the consumer price index had increased 1.7 percent between June 2011 and June 2012, meaning we've been paying on average 1.7 percent more this year than last year for goods and services. The cost of medical care, however, shot up 4.3 percent -- more than two and a half times the CPI. And that was not an aberration. The cost of medical care has been rising faster than the cost of just about everything else in this country for years.

That's one of the reasons why private health insurance premiums have been increasing so rapidly. That and the fact that insurance corporations have to report a big enough profit every quarter to satisfy their shareholders and Wall Street analysts.

Source

I think many seniors feel this way about the plan, even though his plan doesn't start until 2023? How is this even going to help up now? Won't it just screw us later and leave for another administration to fix? Wouldn't you agree? I checked out this side comparison and what Obama care currently covers I think is sufficient.

Kaiser (A Insurance Company) side-by-side comparison


I think the answer to our financial problem is outside of our health care problem. But that is my opinion!

I'm tired of the relentless increases of minimum wage, which pushes everyone into the next tax bracket, so the Government will remain solvent and pay it's bills and leave the AMERICAN DREAM behind. Sooner or later our young and NAIVE voters will wake up and realize this. BTW...RYAN-ROMNEY 2012!

reply to post by RELDDIR


When was the last time minimum wage was bumped up?


Been $7.40 here for quite a while.

ETA:

Gas is 4.09 / gal. also.

I agree 100% with this:

Originally posted by RELDDIR
I'm tired of the relentless increases of minimum wage, which pushes everyone into the next tax bracket, so the Government will remain solvent and pay it's bills and leave the AMERICAN DREAM behind. Sooner or later our young and NAIVE voters will wake up and realize this.

Just not with this:

Originally posted by RELDDIR
RYAN-ROMNEY 2012!

lol

Originally posted by QUANTUMGR4V17Y
reply to post by RELDDIR

 

When was the last time minimum wage was bumped up?


Been $7.40 here for quite a while.

ETA:

Gas is 4.09 / gal. also.

edit on 15-8-2012 by QUANTUMGR4V17Y because: gas price

Good Point.....it was raised three years ago.
Source

A very small couple of points. The first source is The Huffington Post If you think FOX is extreme, then you can apply the same label to the Post. The second source is not to an insurance company, but to the Kaiser Family Foundation. Again there is some question about their objectivity.

My understanding of the Medicare plan proposed is that it has no effect on people now aged 55 or older. For those younger, they can choose between staying on the program or going the voucher route.

I might disagree with the plan, but it's not as drastic as one might think.

reply to post by charles1952


^^ exactly right. Everyone hears the dems screaming "Ryan is going to kill old people!" and they run with it. Ryan's proposed plan will curb spending while still giving aid to seniors. And if I understand correctly, will actually reimburse healthy seniors if they do not use Medicare. Obama backed a 740 billion cut to Medicare..why isn't anyone talking about that!!!?? And under obamacare, you are penalized for being healthy. Not to mention the added debt that will ensue. Me and a few others I know are in great health. I have coverage from a private company and it covers me just fine. My buddy doesnt have coverage, but doesn't need it. Under obamacare he will have to pay for others to get help while he sits at home.

On a separate note..don't mean to sound so brash, but if seniors were saving and investing into roths and 401k's like they should have done, they wouldn't need all these "handouts". Not to mention a large % getting SS and pension pay. Obama is trying to make the American people rely on government handouts and not themselves. Whats going to happen when the people who are paying for these handouts(working middle class) finally break from all the taxes and they themselves need help?

Originally posted by charles1952
A very small couple of points. The first source is The Huffington Post If you think FOX is extreme, then you can apply the same label to the Post. The second source is not to an insurance company, but to the Kaiser Family Foundation. Again there is some question about their objectivity.

My understanding of the Medicare plan proposed is that it has no effect on people now aged 55 or older. For those younger, they can choose between staying on the program or going the voucher route.

I might disagree with the plan, but it's not as drastic as one might think.

Actually, that is not true. One thing FOX and the Right is not telling you:
The Ryan plan keeps the EXACT same cuts Obama makes to Medicare (1. which are not really cuts, but a reduction in the rate of growth, 2. the cuts do NOT affect beneficiaries, as they are taken from insurance subsidies in Medicare Part D and some reduction in what providers get paid -- research ACOs if you really want to understand that).

There are two BUTS here and they are big ones:

1. The savings Obama finds in Medicare go 100% to fill the "donut hole" costs seniors have previously had to pay out of pocket due to gaps in the Bush Medicare Part D plan. In other words, not only do Obama's Medicare cuts not affect seniors themselves in terms of Medicare covered services, it saves them additional money by reducing out of pocket costs for drugs.

2. The Ryan plan, by contrast, uses the $716B in savings found in Medicare (the same Obama has), BUT does NOT plow them back in to fill the donut hole. Under the Ryan plan, the donut hole remains, this means under the Ryan plan, even CURRENT seniors will have to pay more out of pocket (the CBO estimates about $300 this year per senior) since a repeal of Obamacare will re-open the donut hole. Where does this money go to in the Ryan plan? Pay down the deficit maybe? No, actually it is used to in small part offset the massive new tax cuts his plan extends to the richest Americans (the Ryan plan completely eliminates ALL taxes on capital gains).

I know it is a bit complex, but that's the truth as clearly as I can state it. CNN and the mainstream networkd have explained this pretty well, but don't expect to even hear it on FOX.

Originally posted by charles1952
The second source is not to an insurance company, but to the Kaiser Family Foundation.

Sorry, to me anything related Kaiser is related to the insurance company. The kasier foundation is the foundation for the man that created Kasier Permanente, which is a health insurance company.

Insurance companies would benefit from Ryan's plan, why would a company that would benefit from the plan put out a fair comparison? If you really study these proposals, nothing Ryan wants to do will help us now, just hurt us in the long run.

reply to post by pajoly


Thank you for the inteligent comment!! I knew ATS had some smart members that actually know factual data before commenting.

Obamacare really helps our elderly population, they no longer have to decide on medicine or food. Without Obamacare my 66 year old employee wouldnt have been able to retire because she wouldn't have been able to afford health insurance, but now she can!

I do not understand why the right says Obama care is socialism, but Ryan's plan is not.

reply to post by Djayed


Umm facts please? Obamacare IS socialism. Period. Ryan supports capitalism. Period. Look at the 80's under Raegan(similar to Ryan's plan). We had economic prosperity under Raegan. And guess what!? People paid more taxes during that time because more people had jobs! Including the rich! So please tell me, what's so great about obamacare and his plans for the economy?

Originally posted by Vbmatt16
reply to post by Djayed

 

Umm facts please? Obamacare IS socialism. Period. Ryan supports capitalism. Period. Look at the 80's under Raegan(similar to Ryan's plan). We had economic prosperity under Raegan. And guess what!? People paid more taxes during that time because more people had jobs! Including the rich! So please tell me, what's so great about obamacare and his plans for the economy?

Ummm facts please? See it works both ways!! Please show me how Ryan's plan is like Reagans? And you can thank all of the tax breaks on the good ol'republican party! Bush, Bush, Oh and when the senate held Obama hostage so eh rich can keep their tax breaks!

Here is a report on your all mighty Ryan and his plan:

Not only does the latest Ryan plan increase the likelihood that future seniors will find themselves facing health care costs they can’t hope to afford (although Ryan’s ‘splitting the baby’ between his original proposal and the Wyden-Ryan plan puts the elderly is a slightly better position), it also greatly increases the deficit the nation would face in 2040 under the complete Ryan budget. While the deficit number has not yet been projected, it would be something more than the $14 trillion projected in the first Ryan budget proposal and something less than the $50 trillion Miller estimates could have been the result of the adopting the Wyden-Ryan plan.

Indeed, Mr. Miller, a one-time senior advisor at the White House Office of Management and Budget, has estimated that the Wyden-Ryan plan would have ballooned the deficit from the $14 trillion the Ryan budget envisioned by the time we get to a balanced budge in 2035-2040, to something closer to $50 trillion. If you are surprised that the Ryan budget proposes a $14 trillion debt —even were his plan of getting us to a balanced budget at some point between 2035 and 2040 to succeed—you shouldn’t be.

Sourc e
The source links to Forbes, and the article is 5 or 6 pages so please read it before attacking!

reply to post by Djayed


I dont know why the code is putting that space on my source link.... It keeps coming out Sourc e???

reply to post by Djayed


Ignorance is abound today it seems. Just like all other dems, avoid answering any questions and try to pull liberal opinions and push them as facts. And Ryan's plan has been viewed under the microscope by both sides. It's pretty simple really, cut taxes across the board, which boosts jobs, cut handouts, which will boost jobs, restructure(not abolish) Medicare, so it will lower the defecit...if you need more, look at hannity.com. He outlines the Ryan plan quite well. Facts, not liberal opinions, please

Oh and I just clicked your "source" and lol'd. Headline was "some guy, a leftist view on Ryan's plan..."

Originally posted by Vbmatt16
reply to post by Djayed

 

Ignorance is abound today it seems. Just like all other dems, avoid answering any questions and try to pull liberal opinions and push them as facts. And Ryan's plan has been viewed under the microscope by both sides. It's pretty simple really, cut taxes across the board, which boosts jobs, cut handouts, which will boost jobs, restructure(not abolish) Medicare, so it will lower the defecit...if you need more, look at hannity.com. He outlines the Ryan plan quite well. Facts, not liberal opinions, please

Oh and I just clicked your "source" and lol'd. Headline was "some guy, a leftist view on Ryan's plan..."

edit on 16-8-2012 by Vbmatt16 because: Prevent 2nd 1 liner post

1. Did you read the comparison on the Kaiser foundation link of the original post?
2. You talk about me posting an article from FORBES as a source but you post a source from hannity.com, that's not only laughable but the definition of Irony! Forbes is not a propaganda site, but I cannot say the same about hannity. Now post some proof from some credible sites like Breitbart or the Examiner....oh wait I said credible...those won't work and unfortunately ether will fox!

If you would have taken the time to read the original source material and the guy with the "leftist view" you would have been able to determine for yourself that Ryan's plan would kill us in the long run! A least the columnist doesn't hide his point of view behind his origination, he clearly wants you to know where he stands!

reply to post by Djayed


That's fine and dandy but I suggested you go to hannitys site only to refresh yourself on the facts of Ryan's plan. At the very least see a level headed view of his plan. You read a liberal view of it so I thought it only fair that you see a conservative view. ANYWAY...back on track...tell me one good thing about obama's plan..oh wait, he doesn't have one.

Originally posted by Vbmatt16
reply to post by Djayed

 

That's fine and dandy but I suggested you go to hannitys site only to refresh yourself on the facts of Ryan's plan. At the very least see a level headed view of his plan. You read a liberal view of it so I thought it only fair that you see a conservative view. ANYWAY...back on track...tell me one good thing about obama's plan..oh wait, he doesn't have one.

Obamacare is his plan and it is already starting do some real good. Like I said in a previous post, the answer to our financial issues does not reside with our health care issues.

Our healthcare issues are already being resolved, and just for good measure, here a couple of reasons why I support his plan.

Preventative medicine is covered:Aspirin, stop smoking programs, annual check ups! Yep all covered!

The mandate to have insurance! That's right catch that cancer early so I don't have to pay for your treatments when it is too late!

No Being denied benefits because of exsisting conditions!

I went through three different insurance companies before I could get help to stop smoking. Now if I had cancer, sure no problem we will treat that! But if I wanted to stop before I got cancer, well you are SOL! Now they have to help you quit! Instead of too bad so sad unless you have cancer!

reply to post by Djayed


First off how can you say obamacare is doing good when almost all of the policies under obamacare haven't even been implemented yet? Obamacare is doing nothing but adding debt to the pile. And as far as coverage goes...healthcare will become so subpar it will take weeks just to get a checkup. Look at Canada. Average cost for healthcare will rise, while performance declines. There are already multitudes of doctors/practicians wanting to quit and get out of healthcare because of obamacare.

And why should I have to pay extra for you to quit smoking? Because you made a poor choice by smoking and contracted lung cancer, I(average joe tax payer) now have to pay more every month in to the "community pot," which is healthcare, for you to get coverage for a choice you made, all while i wait in line for weeks just to get antibiotics for a cold.

So if you like socialist healthcare so much, why don't you move to Canada and give 40-50% of your income to the government?

First thing's first.

How much do seniors pay Now for:

1. SS check deduction per month.

2. 2nd policies to cover the gaps and notches.

3. anything else that's extra cash costs.


Now what will it cost as ObamaCare continues out let's say 5 years?

Include all the HHS rules that may not be decided yet (if any)


Now compare all the above to this Ryan proposal.
(assuming the Ryan plan is actually complete with actual figures)

Originally posted by Vbmatt16
reply to post by Djayed

 

And why should I have to pay extra for you to quit smoking? Because you made a poor choice by smoking and contracted lung cancer, I(average joe tax payer) now have to pay more every month in to the "community pot," which is healthcare, for you to get coverage for a choice you made, all while i wait in line for weeks just to get antibiotics for a cold.

Normal right winged response, let's ignore the fact if cigerettes kill people with Cancer that costs millions to treat. In the long run you are paying more taxes because they do not catch it early or do not get checked at all untill it is too late and costing you(average Joe tax payer) out the wazoo because we couldn't think about things call preventive medicine.

So if you like socialist healthcare so much, why don't you move to Canada and give 40-50% of your income to the government?

You are the typical right poster that has no factual data behind the propaganda you repeat from "News" outlets like Fox, Brietbart, and the examiner.

Canada tax info
Source

With these taxes, yeah sure I will go live in Canada:
Source

You would help your agenda better if you just observed instead of joined in on the debate. I feel like I am talking to Glenn Beck or something. Mr. Beck, is that you?