USAF gets 24 F/A-22's

Congress approved for the FY2005 24 Raptors at a cost of 4.1 billion.

The funny thing is that the Navy is getting $3 billion for 42 F/A-18E/F, Makes you really relize how much those birds cost.

Raptor Funding

I love those Raptors, great plane. I am not so sure I mind selling some of our other planes. I guess I just care who we sell them to.

This is great. I wonder how many they are going to end up with? They are going to be way too expensive to export even if they wanted to let the technology outside of the U.S.. It will be interesting if they realy do push this F/B business or keep it pretty much primed for the Air Surperiority role it was intended for.

It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside

I wish we could add a zero to the end of that number though...

Congress approved for the FY2005 24 Raptors at a cost of 4.1 billion.

The funny thing is that the Navy is getting $3 billion for 42 F/A-18E/F, Makes you really relize how much those birds cost.

WOW, I did the math with the prise tag divided by the number and this is what i got --- 1 Raptor cost 170 million & 1 Hornet cost 71 million . Did I do something wrong or is that number also including R&D costs?

I'd be interested on what the unit price works out at

Based on the 24 F-22s @ $4.2 billion (US$ assumed)
and on the 42 F-18Es@ $3 billion

It works out at approx $170 million per F-22
and approx $70 per F-18E

I assume this must include support equipment and spares as well, since elsewhere it was posted that F-22s contractor was supposed to have made economies in production reducing the unit price to $100 million.

I would be more interested in costings on the current unit cost of a new build F-15 and the envisaged unit cost of F-35 best/worse case scenario.

At the moment an F-15X or F-18E/F/G buy for Australia now looks like something Australia could live with independently in the region, and a US Coalition flying missions supporting US Raptors & F-35s.

As an Australian I would much rather replace 100-120 airframes with 100-120 F-18E/F-15s than a buy of 50 F-35s, when we can't afford the costs of any, let alone 100s of back up types. Hell I'd rather keep the legs of a rebuilt F-111 2040+ Supercruiser with BVRs, SOWs and mini bombs than a shorter legged F-35 bomber with smaller bomb load needing IFR.

We could always look and see where the tech and politics have gone in 2040 for our next buy....Who knows...late model F-22 & F-35 or whatever might be affordable by the standards of the day.

Unfortunately our Government has already hitched its cart to a one size fits all F-35 purchase. Given the six decades we have rapt up in the US alliance they better be there when we need them. Because I wouldnt want us flying F-35 in everyrole we need, especially when we are going to end up with so few of them.

I wish we could add a zero to the end of that number though...

Relax, that number is way under what's actually going into service... I remember back during Gulf War I. I was talking to my father via phone (he was in Riyadh, and looking at more stealth fighters than they even said existed, right on the tarmac), hehe....

Thats good to hear.

So you are saying that the total number Raptors aquired will be more then 24, or that there are other types of stealth fighters we don't know about?

Maybe both?

- Personally i'm satisfied with Skunkworks being able to spit out the badest bird on the planet every 2 weeks.

The F-22 is a beautiful plane, one of the finest looking world. Looks like something out of Si-Fi Movie. Personally I don't think the plane is better than the new MiG's that are coming out ... but they definetly are bettering looking !

Originally posted by craigandrew

It works out at approx $170 million per F-22
and approx $70 per F-18E

$70?! My god thats cheap!! Ill take two

gimme a break.....at least I saved a word!

I was just thinking when this would happen







No offence meant@@:

I'm sure there are ecomonies of scale involved here too. They more you buy, the cheaper they are. UK, Japan, Taiwan, Italy, have we got a deal for you!!!

So you are saying that the total number Raptors aquired will be more then 24, or that there are other types of stealth fighters we don't know about?

The first one....but you can bet the second are in the proto stage...

Stealth Spy (some offense taken, as I'm kind of biased, hehe)...that pic is PURE fantasy,... My pop's plane would send that bird into the drink before the pilot even realized he was locked on, hehe.... Having looked at the "published" specs on the F22, I can tell you they aren't even close to what it can actually do, I'd love to be able to give you specs, but even my dad won't go that far....(not to mention, I'm not fond of him going to jail, even if he isn't my favorite soul in the world)...

[edit on 12-10-2004 by Gazrok]

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
I was just thinking when this would happen

Never, no offence taken

In regards to unit cost. Even high production numbers would at best shave off 10-20 million per copy. Im basing that on the C-17 program and I do not have hard data to back it up.

The better move IMHO is to buy more JSF, F/A-18 SuperHornets, and some F-15E's to replce say the F-111's. Before you scoff, replace the engines with the newer Raptor variety and equip it with the ESRA Radar 9I think I have the acronym mixed up) That would give you a good mix, potent strike and Air Sup and not break the bank like a few squads of Raptors would. One interesting note the new radar on the F-15 actually lowers its RCS according AWST. Because the radar dish does not rotate, it tends to be less reflective.

this is funny, 1 month ago I read about Air Force getting 24 Raptors for 2 billion, so what is true?

Re price tag Raptors;Maybe wishful thinking on the part of USAF staff?

Originally posted by longbow
this is funny, 1 month ago I read about Air Force getting 24 Raptors for 2 billion, so what is true?

That puts the price tag down to 83 million apiece,, that only happens in the Air Force's Dreams.

I beleive you are right about unit cost -v- production rate. The problem is while the US Forces continue to slash thier orders - wasn't the original order for Raptor pre competitior fly offs about 700-800 airframes and today they're talking about only 100-200 airframes. Not to mention your congress and senate continuously being squimish about funding.

While this situation progresses you can't blame your allies for being wary and having minor heart attacks amongst those who have put thier money on these type of programs.

Aircraft that are extending in service can't get funding for new airframes or real upgrades while the Force Managers keep chasing that next innovation or advance. All the while the developed countermeasures supposedly keep stacking up.

There were those in Australia, including the RAAF who wanted Australia to buy new F-15s with the best kit we could fit them with now, while Boeings line is still open. And wasnt the F-15 a test bed for a lot of Raptor concept technology in the 1980s and early 1990s...Engines for instance.

If that option closes, they even think a buy of F-18E Super Hornets on the same basis might be better for Australia.

We have a internationally respected (he has lectured at the USAF Academy and in Europe) who put forward a proposal to aqquire more stored F-111 and EF-111 airframes and putting the lot (ours and those) through a strip down and rebuild process to create a 2040+ Supercruise F-111 with all new systems and technology nose to tail....improved legs, BVRs, SOW and mini bombs. He supports JSF and F-22 but he is concerned these programs will price and develop themselves out of existence, and right now a mix of F-15s and Uber F-111s would deliver a long term achievable bangs for bucks return for a country that only has a AUD$20 billion p.a. defence budget for the ADF, that would meet our needs in the region and as a support in coalition operations.

Our old F-18 and standard F-111 crews usually do well in Red Flag exercises btw.

The bottom line is that our national economy has grown from 360 billion AUD$ to over $800 billion AUD - slightly more than doubled. The Raptor currently costs over AUD$300 million a unit. an F-18E AUD$120 million (very rough US/Aus $$ conversion)...Thats 4 to 7.5 times the mid 80s unit buy cost of our F-18A/Bs.....and F-35 our next gen buy is still seven to ten years away.

And isnt it amazing how quickly and willingly we race to remove the human element ( not just reaction but judgement based) from our weapons platforms in the form of UCAV development....It truly is the nintendo generation isn't it......the ultimate form of moral free war. We can bomb any target we want because we remove the chance that the pilot might pick up on something that is happening outside the view of his TV image before he presses the tit. Its all down to whats on the scope or programed into the AI, and we can deny knowing reasons NOT to bomb on a given mission......sheesh!

Scary.