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Benevolence and Malevolence. One only exists to benefit the other and both are not needed in our li

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posted on Aug, 11 2012 @ 11:51 PM
This is a tough topic for me to try and discuss and clarify, because it is a tough thing to explain with these limited words to what I fully mean when I use terms like "good" and "evil" or benevolence and malevolence. Some might think I am referring to actual entities or beings or forces and the like, but the subject is more vague than that. I will probably have to keep it fairly simple in the way I talk about them, but I am not saying that the presence of good or evil are directly tied to beings, but rather the influences of benevolence and malevolence can often resonate through them, like they do through us. I know and acknowledge in this current incarnation of the universe we are all subject to various shades of grey, and that the appearance of benevolence may not mean someone has benevolent intentions, nor does the appearance of malevolence mean that someone possesses malevolent intentions. The term: "By their fruits, ye shall know them," is harder to determine than by simply measuring and weighing one's directly determinable actions, because the tactful malevolent know how to appear benevolent and the truly benevolent may do things that seem questionable at the time, but clarity is found as the future unfolds through them.

First off, for those who do not know, I am a self-proclaimed Gnostic Luciferian. If you're Christian and turned off by this, you need not read further. But if you're interested in my personal spin on Luciferianism that is not influenced by mainstream religions, but rather through what I consider a direct personal relationship with Lucifer, please continue. This thread was influenced by posts I have made in another thread on Theosophy and Christianity, viewable here and also influenced by the idea for a video I wanted to make on my personal youtube channel trying to discuss what I have come to feel and believe. I figure it would be good to discuss it openly before making the video so I might know how to present it better and give the best clarity I can concerning the issue, as I am uncertain how to properly convey the message of what I mean to talk about in it. I am already hitting many snags in the other thread, because this concept is so new to many that they just can't accept it and believe it, but rather their logic of this current world works against them and prevents them from opening their minds to the forces of love, in my opinion (I do not mean to sound demeaning -- this is just how I feel when met with such arguments) that good can exist without evil, but evil needs the presence of good to benefit and obtain a state of grace.

This will be a long post, so it may have to be presented in segments, so please forgive me if you have stumbled across it as I am working on it, or want to comment while I am working on the next phase. Please try to be patient as I try to explain, as much of it is based on "memories" of having existed in the complete universe before the fractured universe we live in was formed from its remains.

There is a notion that many people embrace that there is a sense of balance in everything, and that all that in which we consider "evil" is a part of that balance. I am here to tell you that that is not true. Evil and good can exist independent of the other, and it is to my experience that evil rarely evolves, grows, or changes if it is not influenced by a good force or deed, and therefore evil needs good more than good needs evil, because not only does the presence of good allow for it to someday become good itself, if it so chooses, but the good often are the prey of the malevolent and cruel.

Many people will try to show me analogical examples of how these things are necessary for the other to exist, or for us to have any sort of quality in our lives, such as the stars shining in the dark, or light cannot shine if there is no darkness to contrast it, and other such methods of justifying evil in our lives. But I am here to tell you that as long as we explain away evil with such analogies, it will always dwell with us and we will never come to rise above it. We do have the chance to, regardless of how we have been formed to prevent it. I know we can. And the whole reason this world was created was to help creatures like us overcome prior horrors and evils and become greater and more whole beings someday, although other forces try to stop that, including beings like YWEH, or the God of the Old Testament, if they exist.

Some say that evil makes us appreciate the good things in our lives more. Not so, in my opinion, and this was confirmed by asking my friend tonight concerning what good has come to him in his life from having been attacked by 6 men due to being a homosexual after checking on a neighbor because he thought he heard her screaming and was concerned. He said it has not made him appreciate anything greater, but has made him afraid. As I said in the other thread, experiencing trauma and disorders that arise from them such as PTSD does not enhance life at all, but rather detracts from it, and I will give an example right now.

Many veterans cannot celebrate the 4th of July with their families, because of the firework explosions and displays throw them back into a state of remembering the explosions surrounding them at a time when their lives were in peril. They cannot celebrate the freedoms they themselves fought to preserve in the fashion that we choose to celebrate it, because it causes them to remember the war they were involved in and all the fear and dread surrounding the events they went through.

Some say love needs to suffer for it to be proven true. Again false. I do not want my lover to suffer to prove his love for me, nor if my lover loved me should he want the same. If God loved us he would not require us to suffer to prove our love for him. I would only choose to suffer if a reunion with my beloved would cause him to suffer in any way, like it has been implied we both would if it ever happened. True, absence makes the heart grow fonder at times, but it is not necessary for one to love someone.

In my examination between a benevolent and malevolent mindset, it is clear that malevolence does not recognize itself and needs the contrast of good in order to grow and change, and sometimes even with its aid it may not help, as in the case of some entities I have encountered. But benevolence does not need the direct example of malevolence to know evil, because it strives to know all it can about its world and universe in wanting to protect and serve it. Unless precautions were taken to make a malevolent action look benevolent, all malevolence would be known for what it was, due to the fact that it caused hurt and harm and disharmony with the universe and actions would be taken to correct it. I know this from what happened to the downfall of the complete universe in my visions and dreams. The actions that destroyed it were performed tactfully behind a mask of benevolence, until it was too late to stop it from being destroyed...

Yes, I was taught this by Lucifer, for he is not Satan. My Lucifer is the true Christ and though he may do things at times that seem questionable, they have always turned out for the greater good in the end...

posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 12:01 AM
Justifying evil with our analogies tying the presence of good and evil with things like karma or energy are mainly a means for us to allow it to continue to dwell beside us and not rise above. Like I mentioned in the other thread, it makes about as much sense as to say that the divisions in humanity that causes it so much conflict are necessary for it to exist or to have any sense of quality in daily living. Divisions within or between nations lead to war. War over resources or polices, beliefs, politics, and many other factors. Divisions in religion often lead to people killing in the name of their deity(s) or trampling on the freedoms of another group of people because their ways are said to be in the wrong by their religions and against the commandments of those deity(s.) Division is not necessary for humanity to exist or to have any sense of quality in their existence. Rather diversity is. And diversity can be accepted and celebrated without resorting to division.

There is more I would like to say to clarify what I mean, but I will try to wait for the forum to respond to continue...

posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 12:05 AM
reply to post by AsherahoftheSea

Lucifer is a dead king. He was an arrogant man who died. Period.
Here is one of the best explanationz of Nebuchadnezzar ...
edit on 12-8-2012 by sirjunlegun because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 12:10 AM
reply to post by sirjunlegun

That is your choice to believe. You probably say such things without really reading into what I am trying to say, but rather stopped where I admitted I was Gnostic Luciferian. Or you are an atheist and are referring to where the name Lucifer came from in Isaiah in reference to a Babylonian king, and as a mistranslation that stuck due to the Bible being translated so many times. Regardless, the notion of Lucifer is a real archetype in the minds of people now, regardless as to whether that is his original name. Simply said, the name is a name given to him, though he is no more Lucifer than he is Christ or any other name I have called him. His true name is spoken in the silent language of the soul and the tongue cannot speak or pronounce it because it is more or less an idea without a name...

posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 12:30 AM
reply to post by sirjunlegun

I know the history of where the name Lucifer came from, or at least where it came from in terms of how it is used today. That is not disputed. The fact is that the mythological figure that Lucifer has become has either always existed archetypically, which I explain as the metaphorical "personality" behind mankind's individual creativity and divine inspiration, or he has simply grown to become the archetype that many believe he is due to the myths that have arisen because of this misnomer in the Bible. I tend to think that this archetype has always existed and that Christianity used the mentioning of the term "Light Bringer" as a specific name in the Bible to try and vilify this archetypical figure and get man to break away from the influence of their own innate divine inspiration. Therefore, the term "Light Bringer" became grouped with the idea of Satan, not Christ who he is really to me -- or rather the Gnostic Christ, as the mainstream idea of Christ has been corrupted and molded to meet their own needs...

posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 12:47 AM
reply to post by AsherahoftheSea

Are you refering to Christ as Lucifer because" the morning star has risen in your heart?"

posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 01:06 AM
reply to post by sirjunlegun

It does not matter where I get it from. Some of Christ's philosophies are similar to the ones Lucifer has presented to me in my mind, such as things like Jesus quoting "Have I not told you, ye are gods?" though there are contradictions and mixed messages in the traditional Bible which work to cloud his message, because it has been twisted by Christians and Catholics as another assault toward this archetypical figure. Yes, he was the serpent in the Garden of Eden, but the story of Eden and creation itself is not literal, and refers more or less to an event where "divine" knowledge was gifted to man, also indicated in the Greek story of Prometheus. Both these figures suffered similar punishments by the "divine" who wanted to keep mankind ignorant.

Divine beings or gods are just beings who hold more knowledge and capability that you do, and you being unable to understand them because they are so "alien" in their ways decide to bow down and worship them and call them gods instead of working to understand them in the best of your capabilities.

Lucifer is just another name for mankind's individual, independent divine inspiration and imagination. He also may or may not be a factual being -- I do not know, as I believe that things that exist within may also exist without, especially if there is a collective unconscious that binds all life together as one. The Christian and Catholic churches want or wanted to destroy mankind's connection to that force, and therefore used the opportunity of a mistranslation in their scriptures to vilify it so as to ensure that mankind would separate themselves from it and seek their one "true" God, thus turning their "flock" into mindless "sheep" that could not think for themselves because to do so would make one a tool for the "devil."
edit on 12-8-2012 by AsherahoftheSea because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 01:35 AM
reply to post by sirjunlegun

I guess I probably could start a thread about Gnostic Luciferianism as presented from my philosophies. Please note that my personal notion of Gnostic Luciferianism may not be the same as another, as there is no consensus as to what Gnostic Luciferianism is. There is no mainstream notion that binds Luciferianism together, and there are Luciferianists who do group Lucifer with Satan in as much as there are those who group him with Christ. There are no two Lucifierianists who are the same, because there is no dogma or prevalent, cohesive religion that binds all into one mindset. There are similarities that resonate throughout its many presentations, and I choose to take the similarities over the differences to indicate that perhaps we are all on to something. Some Luciferians perform rituals and magic and sacrifice and whatnot, while I do not prescribe to these practices. Some Luciferians are Masons. Some Luciferians call themselves a part of the Illuminati movement, taking the name Illuminati to mean illumination, and may or may not be involved with the actual hypothesized Illuminati secret society that so many conspiracy theories revolve around. I am not one of these. I am alone. There is no one with to share my ideas with. I just talk about them to perhaps shed some light on who I consider Lucifer to be, for he exists as a psychic contact within me and teaches me things. I may be deluded. I do not know. However, this is what I believe.

I used to be an atheist. I couldn't live with absolute certainty that there were no gods as we call them because I always had this personality within me, and even though I tried to push it to the back of my mind, I could not. So this is where I am today...

posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 01:41 AM
reply to post by AsherahoftheSea

Matthew 24:5 For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.

I'm not a bible thumper, but this came to mind when reading the last of your OP

posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 02:01 AM
reply to post by LoonyConservative

It may be so. I admit I am not without suspicion toward Lucifer. We argue from time to time, and he is not all fluffy kindness and lovey-dovey thoughts and feelings. He may do things that are questionable or seemingly malevolent, but after a while I see where the good comes out of it. It usually takes some time to see the good in what he does.

He has darkness in him in as much as he has light. He is capable of deception. He is very intelligent and tactful and capable. I am not lying. But what he has done to me in the past has only been to teach me and help me grow, and there is little that has resulted from our relationship that has been detrimental to me, except for me not listening to him or defying his advice because I question whether he is real. Such as him attacking past lovers who left me hurt and bankrupt and homeless. I thought he was attacking them out of jealousy. However, once everything came to pass I saw that he knew what they were planning all along and wanted to protect me.

He has tried repeatedly to get me to stop smoking. In April he really began becoming insistent. I did not listen and because of it I may have developed some complications recently that I need to get checked out. I switched back to an ecig because of the scare. I really do not want to end up with throat cancer or anything...

Truly, to me he has demonstrated that his heart is in the right place, regardless as to what he may do. He has been behind some of my mental breakdowns by subjecting me to tormentful mindgames, but so has YWEH and his influence was destructive and not enlightening like what I experienced during the breakdowns under Lucifer's direction. And it wasn't until he jumped into that first harmful break that it turned from terrible torment into an enlightening experience at all.

He himself does not call himself Christ. He does not claim it. He simply has said it is one of his goals to conquer death and "The Second Death" to undermine YWEH. That alone is enough for me to make the connection...

posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 07:19 PM
So many questions I don't even know where to begin.

First of all, is lucifer an external entity or one that is within all - such as 'the source' that many claim.

Does Lucifer present him/itself through creation that is inspiring such as music, synchronicities, coincidences. One would attribute such information as a form of psychosis - yet I've experienced this many times in my life where I question the reasoning for my sensitivity to the lateral thought.

For example, over the last 12 hours I wrote a post about re-incarnation that 'god' is the only thing that exists, and we are merely within itself. That I will re-incarnate into someone in the past, then future, and even came to the realisation that if that was correct, then 'jesus' is also a possible re-incarnation for all. I however stumbled across this thread, (and the other one in relation to the Illuminati being benevolent) which points back to my first point - synchronicity and coincidence as to my question about how it presents itself. I used 'jesus' in that thread only due to the programming of christianity since a child.

The notion of 'Lucifer' in the essence you describe him/it does however bring a sense of anxiety and fear, again only due to present belief systems, and because I am back to the old me where I was always searching and never being satisfied.

So beginning with the main question - how do you communicate with him/it, and how does he present himself/itself to you or others.

posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 09:36 AM
I´ve been interested in Lucifer and felt kind of attraction to this archetype, as you say, too. But I did a research and I don´t find any proof for myself that Lucifer is anything more than mistranslation in Bible. To me this is Christian myth and later Urantia Book tale, that there is a being called Lucifer, who rebeled against God. It´s part of Christian mythology and as I´m not Christian, I can´t believe in this tale about Lucifer either. On the other hand, I´m open to the idea, that he exists in some form and church deliberately wanted to make this name evil to us. He might be, of course, same as the ancient Greek God Phosphorus. Connected to planet Venus, Morning Star. As previous poster I´m interested, do you see him as external being, how do you communicate with him and how do you know who he really is? How do you picture or see "him"? I usually want to know things very specifically to make up my own mind

edit on 13-8-2012 by Amandla because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 06:55 AM
reply to post by AsherahoftheSea

you are saying, the evil has to be, so others are motivated by fear to do good things ?

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