Red State: OMG. This might just be the moment Mitt Romney lost the election (Andrea Saul blunder)

Originally posted by ThreeSistersofLoveandLigh
I think I get the whole issue now, and what Romney's stance on the whole health care issue is, and I think I now understand why. It's not easy to explain but I am going to give a stab at it....

Romney does not want Federal Universal Health Care. He isn't against a State mandated Health Care, such as he himself implemented in Massachusetts. I believe as far as he is concerned this issue should be handled on a State to State level and not necessarily recognized and mandated by the Federal Government.

You see, if Universal Health Care becomes a Federal mandate, it means that large corporations and multi-state companies will have no choice but to pay into the system in the form of federal taxes, thus reducing their profit.

What has happened in Massachusetts (where I live) is that because of the Massachusetts Health Care Act, large corporations and multi-state companies are finding ways around having to pay for health care and burdening the State with picking up the cost of health care to their workers. Many corporations in Massachusetts only provide paid heath insurance to "full time workers". They have begun to reclassify many positions hourly part-time, non managerial positions (with full time hours), and the only "full time" positions being salaried managerial positions, so that they don't have to pay a share of health care premiums, and it is left up to the state to pick up the tab because under Romney's Affordable Health Care Act, multi-state companies and corporations are only required to provide health insurance to full time workers. This saves the companies and corporations huge amounts of money.

Romney didn't implement this because he cared about whether or not people had access to affordable health care, he did it to give multi-state companies and large corporations a way to avoid having to pay for these benefits, thus increasing the amount of money that they make, the amount of profit that goes to their shareholders and into the pockets of the uber rich.

If health care becomes a federal mandate (a federal tax) they will have to pay into the healthcare system regardless, and these large multi-state companies and corporations will lose money.

Once you open your eyes and actually see how the system works, and for whom it is working for you understand what is really going on and why Romney seems to be flip flopping on the issue.

Truth is that he is not, you just have to understand which team that he's really playing for.

Did you know that under the Affordable Healthcare Act, that a state if they can come up with a plan that covers as least as well and protects their citizens as well as a federal program -- that they are more than welcome to implement it and bow out of the federal program.

www.washingtonpost.com...

Originally posted by RealSpoke
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Under the old system no one dies because of lack of health care. People die because of illness.

If your insurance will not cover the prescription you need in order to prolong your life then you kinda do die from lack of health care. Those pills exist, they'll just cost you an extreme amount of money you don't have! Insurance doesn't cover them...so you can just die early.

Happened to my grandfather.

And secondly, any poor person can get free emergency care at any county hospital. Hospitals cannot refuse emergency care based on lack of insurance.

It isn't free. They will still bill you for it. Which can result in getting sued, and ruining your credit score. That can then destroy your whole future.

And this will still happen. Obamacare is not a single payer system..it's not nationalized...it's the same old thing as it is now.

You speak as if healthcare is a human right granted to us by the Constitution. It's not. I'm sorry grandpa died, but look around.. all grandpas die.

Originally posted by ThreeSistersofLoveandLigh
***snip***
Romney didn't implement this because he cared about whether or not people had access to affordable health care, he did it to give multi-state companies and large corporations a way to avoid having to pay for these benefits, thus increasing the amount of money that they make, the amount of profit that goes to their shareholders and into the pockets of the uber rich.
***snip***

This cannot be emphasized enough.

How come a millionaire tax-evasionist has the working man's votes and gneral support?

THAT my friends is the true conspiracy in America.

Convincing millions of ordinary people that they have to support him while he digs into their pockets. Genious. Sheep.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


And?

You said people do not die from lack of healthcare, but they DO. That was the whole point, way to miss it.

all grandpas die.

With that mindset, everyone dies. Why help them if they can't pay? Kids die from cancer all the time...Probably in the same boat my grandfather was. If you have parents with good insurance and money, it's all good though.

Healthcare is a human right to me anyway. I don't need it to be in the constitution...they couldn't even grasp the concept of healthcare as we have it now back then. You do realize that the constitution has been amendeded multiple times...right?

reply to post by RealSpoke


My point is "lack of healthcare" is an abstract. It cannot "kill" anything. People have been dying for thousands of years. Do people still die in Canada? Attributing "killing" to "lack of healthcare" is a reification fallacy. If Jimbob dies from cancer with healthcare he died from cancer. If Mary Beth dies from cancer without healthcare she as well died from cancer.

I know it's a sad story, but people die. Healthcare is not a human right.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Lack of preventative health care can attribute to a person's early death.

You are making a fallacious argument, by stating that people will die with or without health care, or that people die all the time. No Kidding. The goal of having a health care plan is so people won't drop dead sooner than they have to. Preventative medicine via a sound health care plan would go a long way to prevent long-term disease that might arise later in a person's life.

Romney ....obama ..it does not matter and the powers that be own both! Last election they showed us how powerful they are by getting a muslim, non-citizen, 1 term Senator that did not show up for a vote.....ELECTED and convinced alot of people he was the most intelligent person in the world! If I were to tell you that 20 years ago you would have laughed.....not so funny now. Our vote stopped counting decades ago, the only reason we go to the ballot box is for the perception of a free election. Look at what the GOP did to Ron Paul in the primaries!
Our government is corrupt to the core and there is nothing we can do about it except smile and wait for the FLASH!!!!!

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


You can fix healthcare by just going back to a cash pay for treatment and outlawing Health Insurances and the prices would fix themselves. Health Ins is not going to go down ...did our car insurance go down when we were forced to buy it?

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Lack of preventative health care can attribute to a person's early death.

You are making a fallacious argument, by stating that people will die with or without health care, or that people die all the time. No Kidding. The goal of having a health care plan is so people won't drop dead sooner than they have to. Preventative medicine via a sound health care plan would go a long way to prevent long-term disease that might arise later in a person's life.

I know exactly what you're saying, I pointed out that healthcare coverage is NOT a human right.

reply to post by RealSpoke


This, you tool-boxes. This is what is really going on. I swear to god, it's like ignorance is a super-power around here.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by Blackmarketeer

 

"To that point, if people had been in Massachusetts, under Governor Romney's health care plan, they would have had health care." -- Andrea Saul, Romney campaign spokesperson

If only the Massachusetts Health Care Law was applied nationwide....hmmmm....what a novel idea.

It really sounds like Romney would support a President that would campaign on expanding Massachusets Health Care Law nationwide...doesn't it??? I wonder why he isn't taking that position himself????

A good question. A better one might be "Is there really any difference between Romney and Obama? Of course not

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Healthcare is not a human right.

And yet owning a gun is????


How did we get our morals so f'ed up in this country???

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Healthcare is not a human right.

And yet owning a gun is????


How did we get our morals so f'ed up in this country???

Pretty sure that started with our Constitution, so I guess nothing got f'ed up since that is how it always was. Can you show me where the Constitution talks about Healthcare?

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Lack of preventative health care can attribute to a person's early death.

You are making a fallacious argument, by stating that people will die with or without health care, or that people die all the time. No Kidding. The goal of having a health care plan is so people won't drop dead sooner than they have to. Preventative medicine via a sound health care plan would go a long way to prevent long-term disease that might arise later in a person's life.

Many insurance plans, including mine, do not cover much in the way of preventative care.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Healthcare is not a human right.

And yet owning a gun is????


How did we get our morals so f'ed up in this country???

Pretty sure that started with our Constitution, so I guess nothing got f'ed up since that is how it always was. Can you show me where the Constitution talks about Healthcare?

The Constitution doesn't mention steamtrains, condoms or nuclear weapons either. Should we therefore ban them? Healthcare should be a right.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Healthcare is not a human right.

And yet owning a gun is????


How did we get our morals so f'ed up in this country???

Owning a gun isn't a "human right" either. It's a "granted right" under the Constitution. Red herring, get back in healthcare.

Originally posted by stirling
First,before fooling with Health Care,it would be wise to take the "piss" outof the medical profession.....
The doctors,hospitals and all the medical staff get way overpaid......Perhaps it would be better to start where medical costs begin.......De-mystefy the The whole damn shebang.
These people are providing a service......like any plumber,or garage mechanic....
The whole mess is a ripoff....dont people see the problem?????!
They use this proffesion,and all the related ones to overcharge and impoverish people.
Look Where the REAL MONEY GOES!
Places like BAIN!

Well, when it comes right down to it, everyone SHOULD know that the reason there's a "healthcare crisis" at all is because all of these people are way overpaid and the price for everything that has anything to do with any kind of medical care or procedure is enormously inflated. And the government has never done a thing about this because they love it. It gives them an excuse to expand more and more into medical.

I don't care if they are saving someone's life. It shouldn't cost as much as a house or a car to do it. If the government wants to get involved, this is where they should be before they ever open their mouths to blame us for breathing. And the insurance industry has never been anything but a business with the goal of taking as much of your money as they can get without giving you anything in return. To force people to buy insurance in the name of "fixing healthcare" is the biggest insult ever.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Healthcare is not a human right.

And yet owning a gun is????


How did we get our morals so f'ed up in this country???

Pretty sure that started with our Constitution, so I guess nothing got f'ed up since that is how it always was. Can you show me where the Constitution talks about Healthcare?

Can you show me the depth of knowledge about health care in the late 1700s for that matter can you show me the depth of art concerning automatic weapons.

There is the part that gives the spirit of the document the part that says " promote the general Welfare"

Originally posted by BrianFlanders

Originally posted by stirling
First,before fooling with Health Care,it would be wise to take the "piss" outof the medical profession.....
The doctors,hospitals and all the medical staff get way overpaid......Perhaps it would be better to start where medical costs begin.......De-mystefy the The whole damn shebang.
These people are providing a service......like any plumber,or garage mechanic....
The whole mess is a ripoff....dont people see the problem?????!
They use this proffesion,and all the related ones to overcharge and impoverish people.
Look Where the REAL MONEY GOES!
Places like BAIN!

Well, when it comes right down to it, everyone SHOULD know that the reason there's a "healthcare crisis" at all is because all of these people are way overpaid and the price for everything that has anything to do with any kind of medical care or procedure is enormously inflated. And the government has never done a thing about this because they love it. It gives them an excuse to expand more and more into medical.

I don't care if they are saving someone's life. It shouldn't cost as much as a house or a car to do it. If the government wants to get involved, this is where they should be before they ever open their mouths to blame us for breathing. And the insurance industry has never been anything but a business with the goal of taking as much of your money as they can get without giving you anything in return. To force people to buy insurance in the name of "fixing healthcare" is the biggest insult ever.

edit on 10-8-2012 by BrianFlanders because: (no reason given)

What the hell has the government had to do with controlling the cost of healthcare. The gov controls costs in medicare and the veterans administration. But health care is controlled by the magical invisible hand of the almighty free market. In a cozy little estrangement between providers and insurance companies. As the cost goes up the insurance companies can charge more for premiums everybody profits but the consumer.

You are wrong to whine about the government. If you want the government to control costs and if you wanted the insurance companies out of the picture. Where were you during the healthcare debate. This is exactly what the democrats were talking about when they wanted a single payer system. With regulation on costs. and the whole insurance middle man removed.

Did you vote democratic -- did you speak up -- if you didn't this republican concept of universal healthcare is the best you can hope for, for now.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Healthcare is not a human right.

And yet owning a gun is????


How did we get our morals so f'ed up in this country???

No owning a gun is not, defending yourself is.