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I question your intentions for answers, so I'm going to make an exit. It's kind of hard to overlook the fact that you quoted Luke 2:6-7 in your original post but hadn't read verses 1-5 enough to know why Joseph and Mary were in Bethlehem to begin with?
Originally posted by Akragon
It always cracks me up that Christians wonder why they're hated all over the world, yet can still offer a reply like this when someone presents something outside of their traditional train of thought...
Do you think the smugness is necessary or do just prefer to be dickish in your replies?
Do you believe that the Magi were present at Christ's birth, and, if so, upon what do you base that belief?
Matthew 2
King James Version (KJV)
2 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
3 When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.
4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,
6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
7 Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.
8 And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also.
9 When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.
10 When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy.
11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.
12 And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.
Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by adjensen
And i told you since you feel the need to insult me and my character, call me a liar, toss assumptions around...
Im done with you in this thread...
After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.”
When King Herod heard this he was disturbed, and all Jerusalem with him. When he had called together all the people’s chief priests and teachers of the law, he asked them where the Messiah was to be born. “In Bethlehem in Judea,” they replied, “for this is what the prophet has written:
“‘But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;
for out of you will come a ruler
who will shepherd my people Israel.’”
Then Herod called the Magi secretly and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared. He sent them to Bethlehem and said, “Go and search carefully for the child. As soon as you find him, report to me, so that I too may go and worship him.”
After they had heard the king, they went on their way, and the star they had seen when it rose went ahead of them until it stopped over the place where the child was. When they saw the star, they were overjoyed. On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh. And having been warned in a dream not to go back to Herod, they returned to their country by another route. (Matthew 2:1-12 NIV)
and so the thread ends, with you unwilling to answer a simple question to vindicate your claim, which may now be relegated to the trash bin.
Originally posted by Akragon
Originally posted by AshleyD
The gospel of Matthew never claims Jesus was born at their home. It just mentions the magi going there. Most Christians believe the magi were not there immediately at the birth like you see in Christmas pageants.
I had people come and visit us at home after having my son. Doesn't mean I gave birth there. Lol
edit on 8/6/2012 by AshleyD because: (no reason given)
Are you suggesting they went to an inn, had a baby, then returned home?
I don't see the point of the extra travel honestly... why not just have the child at home?
Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by AshleyD
Actually i have all the answers i'll ever need... I never refer to paul, its simply unnecessary... and luke is always questionable and needs to be referenced with the other 3 accounts of his life
I appreciate the advice though
edit on 6-8-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by AshleyD
You might notice there is no census mentioned in Matthew either actually...
Theres actually a number of discrepancies between the two books, for instance... Joseph and Mary's home is in Bethlehem in Matt 2:11, yet in Luke its in Nazareth (luke 2:4-7) with no home in Bethlehem.
after the birth of Jesus... they travel to Egypt in Matt 2:14.. . yet in luke they travel to Jerusalem and Nazareth (Luke 2:22, 39)
Unfortunately however, Paul is bar-none-without-a-doubt the most influential aspect within modern Christianity; the reasons for that are mostly arguable, and variable, but there it is none the less. If you are going to argue biblical texts and discount Paul you are discounting most interpretations of the new testament, as his influence upon those interpretations has become intrinsic throughout the various re-writings of the Bible... With the possible exception of John
it would be perhaps more accurate to simply call a spade a spade and instead of Christianity we should simply call it Paulianity.
Originally posted by Vespa51
reply to post by Akragon
Strange there was no room in Bethlehem when it was Joseph's home town. He must have had friends and relatives to stay with. Was there trouble because they weren't married!
Come on, how is that fair considering the church was not born until 50 days after the crucifixion and 10 days after the ascension?? Not to mention for the majority if people for the majority of the past 2000 years Christians were Gentiles not Jews.
The church and pastoral epistles were not needed until the church was born, then they were needed for correction, reproof, and new covenant doctrine. There was no Christianity or new covenant to write about before then.
Originally posted by Akragon
Of course the dating will always be up for debate... but why would no one write about him whilest he was around?