Parents of British-born Muslim girl Shafilea Ahmed found guilty of her 'honour' killing

Originally posted by nightbringr
Sickening doesnt begin to describe this.

Wonder how long till the Islamic apologists show up to show us all how we are misguided and that we need to understand this is their culture, and therefore we must accept it.

edit on 3-8-2012 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)

The horrible "phenomenon" called honor killing is way older than Islam itself. It's a cultural thing, so please explain to me how this is a religious matter if it's older than the religion itself ?

This case could well be the first prosecuted - however, they (the judicial system) has actually made a landmark here or better still a 'precedent' to use the jargon.

It has at least sent a powerful message that with the right evidence under British law honour/murder killings within these communities will not be tolerated here.... I feel a tide a turning somewhat .

This was a heinous crime but our maximum penalty appears to have been meted thank goodness.

R.I.P. Shalifea with so much life in her eyes.

Now they should be executed by having their heads covered with a plastic bag in front of the other radicals.

This was the original statement I was objecting to. Now that might be how our soldiers do things in Afghanistan but aren't we meant to be more "civilised"?

I don't recall saying her parents should be shown leniency, but you all still jumped on me in your bloodlust.

If you think sending someone to prison for probably the rest of their lives is leniency then perhaps we should just execute all the prison population of the UK?

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

LOL, you do not know these kinds of people

What do you mean by these kinds of people?

I know muslims and none have ever tried to kill me? But if you're talking about extremist muslims, then if you know them shouldn't they have tried to kill you?

I think you all got the wrong idea from my original post.

Don't for one second think I condone what her parents did.

Originally posted by ollncasino
THE UK domiciled Pakistani parents of Shafilea Ahmed, have been found guilty of murdering her by suffocating her with a plastic bag in front of their other children for being too Westernized.

They had clashed with their eldest daughter over her westernised lifestyle and objected to her wearing the same clothes as her white friends, rather than traditional Pakistani dress.

Ind ependent.ie

The UK's Independent goes into more disturbing detail.

Iftikhar Ahmed, 52, and his wife Farzana, 49, of Liverpool Road, Warrington, Cheshire, suffocated Shafilea, 17, with a plastic bag in 2003 in an apparent "honour killing".

Shafilea's sister Alesha told the jury at Chester Crown Court her parents pushed Shafilea onto the settee in their house and she heard her mother say "just finish it here" as they forced a plastic bag into the teenager's mouth and killed her in front of their other children.

Crying in the witness box, Alesha told the trial her parents held a terrified Shafilea down on the settee in their living room as the plastic bag was forced into her mouth.

"You could tell she was gasping for air," she said before adding that Shafilea "wet herself because she was struggling so much".

Asked what happened next, she told the court: "That was it, she was gone."

Alesha went on to describe how the other children ran upstairs to their bedrooms in shock and she saw her father carry Shafilea's body to the car wrapped in a blanket.

The Independent

Why do people immigrate to the West and then murder their own daughter for being too Westernized?

I hope they rot in hell although that is too good for them.

Why? Because they're evil incarnate, that's why. Everybody makes mistakes in their lives but murdering your family is beyond comprehension, in any circumstance except self defence, imo

This same exact thing happened here in ontario a few years ago. Pakistani girl was murdered for wearing makeup and "revealing" clothes. The fathers obviously have a deep hatred for our country, yet they live here anyways/
These are called conservative muslims ( they vote liberal here and conservative at home)

I have personally seen a few racist traditionalists through girls I dated in the past. their fathers and brothers get really enraged if they find out a western guy is dating their daughter/ It's a shame.
God bless these people and show them the truth

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147

Originally posted by ollncasino
THE UK domiciled Pakistani parents of Shafilea Ahmed, have been found guilty of murdering her by suffocating her with a plastic bag in front of their other children for being too Westernized.

If these people hate the West so much that they would brutally murder their own daughter for being too "westernized", then why are they here?

You know what the twisted irony in all this is? The father used to be a bit of a party animal in the '80's who liked beer and "disco's", was married to a Danish Christian woman (with whom he had a child) who he then left to go back to Pakistan to marry his childhood betrothal. He even then invited his Danish wife to live with him and his new wife in England....

I'm glad they got sent down for this and was made even happier that the Judge slammed the whole practice and their culture to boot. Primitive isn't even the word for it.

Originally posted by Kram09
But if you're talking about extremist muslims, then if you know them shouldn't they have tried to kill you?

I would call Pakistani parents who kill their daughter for being too Westernized, extremists.

What would you call them?

reply to post by slidingdoor


Unfortunately, it isn't the first. There an estimated 50 killings a year and many have been prosecuted. In fact, the UK has seen a sharp rise in so called "honour" crimes, as much as 47% apparently...

reply to post by ollncasino


You're twisting what I'm saying.

The other poster said he knew these kinds of people (by which I assume he means extremist muslims). If he did then shouldn't they have tried to kill him?

What I'm trying to say is labelling all muslims with the same brush is wrong and I know muslims and none have ever tried to kill me.

So please don't skew my words.

reply to post by stumason


That's interesting Stu , I don't recall seeing such a successfull prosecution before. This case has had fairly good media coverage and the 25 year sentence is huge...and correct . I sincerely hope it's really sent a message to the communities who practice this barbarism .

reply to post by slidingdoor


I wouldn't be so sure. Even two of his own kids still defended him in the trial and a survey in 2006 showed that 10% of Muslim students at a University believed it was a valid response to a perceived slight.

I think, in the future, this might make the communities more insular, especially the men. Unwilling to grass each other up to us "kafirs". It is really down to the women in the community to stand up and make sure these crimes are reported.

Here be a Wiki link: en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Kram09
The other poster said he knew these kinds of people (by which I assume he means extremist muslims). If he did then shouldn't they have tried to kill him?

What I'm trying to say is labelling all muslims with the same brush is wrong and I know muslims and none have ever tried to kill me.

While it is true that most UK Muslims are not extremists (for instance, about 600 serve in the UK armed forces) trying to assert that extremist Muslims don't exist is both wrong and foolish.

In light of the Pakistani couple murdering their own daughter for being too Westernized and honor killings in the UK in the Islamic community being all too common, I would contend that your position that Muslim extremists don't exist is not only wrong, it is an insult to peoples' intelligence.

reply to post by ollncasino

your position that Muslim extremists don't exist

You've misread my comments.

Nowhere did I say or even intend to suggest that muslim extremists do not exist.

That's ridiculous.

Originally posted by Kram09

Nowhere did I say or even intend to suggest that muslim extremists do not exist.

That's ridiculous.

I'm glad to read that. However, I am still puzzled as to what you were implying when you wrote this below.

Originally posted by Kram09
I know muslims and none have ever tried to kill me?

But if you're talking about extremist muslims, then if you know them shouldn't they have tried to kill you?

These things happen in Hindu and Sikh communities as well. It has less to do with religion and more to do with lack of education/poverty.

reply to post by reppie


Neither is really relevant, as poverty crosses all boundaries and you don;t see this in Western culture and many of these families are University educated.

You're quite right to say it isn't just Islam, although that seems to the most prevalent, but it is entirely down to culture, specifically a Patriarchal one where women are seen as mere objects to trade.

Honur killings are a cultural practice and occur within some Hindu, Sikh and Buddhist communities as well as some Muslim one's.
Until relatively recently it was also practiced in some South American communities.

This was a particularly abhorent instance - I struggle to comprehend how parents could murder their own child and in such a manner.
What must have been going through that girl's mind as her parents suffocated her?
The mind boggles.

This may surprise some but I am quite strongly opposed to capital punishment, (that is a discussion for another time and place), but I wouldn't shed a tear if this couple were thrown into a cold rotten cell, the key thrown away and them simply left to rot.

There seems to be a perception that this type of crime is on the increase, and statistics back this up, but I suspect that this may be because we as a society are becoming more aware of the practice and that the reluctance within the communities where these acts occur is breaking down.
There seems to be some sort of schism growing within these communities.

The hypocritical thing is that it is generally accepted, or at least a blind eye is shown, for men to break with the traditional values and to drink, take drugs and shag about.
I know two girls from Pakistani backgrounds who have been through hell for living a 'westernized' lifestyle whereas it is relatively common place to see males from similar backgrounds living the life.

Originally posted by Freeborn
There seems to be a perception that this type of crime is on the increase, and statistics back this up, but I suspect that this may be because we as a society are becoming more aware of the practice and that the reluctance within the communities where these acts occur is breaking down.
There seems to be some sort of schism growing within these communities.

Indeed, it is the reporting that has gone up, which reflects in the "rise" seen in the crime stats. The same can be said of a variety of other crimes, which see an "increase", but it is usually down to increased reporting of the crime as opposed to it actually increasing.

Originally posted by Freeborn
The hypocritical thing is that it is generally accepted, or at least a blind eye is shown, for men to break with the traditional values and to drink, take drugs and shag about.
I know two girls from Pakistani backgrounds who have been through hell for living a 'westernized' lifestyle whereas it is relatively common place to see males from similar backgrounds living the life.

Oh, tell me about it. I worked with Muslims at Telewest in Slough. There was one female as well and she always copped grief from them, such as she should stay at home to have kids, that sort of crap. And this was from quite young, British born Muslims too, not immigrants.

They would put on the pious face, especially at Ramadan, but would still be happy to go down the pub, smoke, sleep around. God forbid Fuzzy (that was her name - shortened from Fuzzana) ever show her face at lunch down the pub, even if she only had a coke.

The hypocrisy was astounding and she saw it clear as day, but could not do a great deal about it due to her "culture" and fear of how her parents would react.

I said to her that her culture was wrong then and needed to change and she would agree, but still be at a loss as to how. I felt sorry for her, she had a marriage lined up and I can imagine her now as a "homemaker" for some bastard who doesn't love her and treats her like crap...

Originally posted by reppie
These things happen in Hindu and Sikh communities as well. It has less to do with religion and more to do with lack of education/poverty.

And, lack of love. These honor killings are proof that paternal and maternal instincts are taught by the society we each live in. We humans are not born with it.