POLITICS: China-Taiwan Tension Worsening

Originally posted by J0HNSmith
Please not for the record, I am right and you are wrong!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Who is wrong on what?
Can you specify what you mean?

JohnSmith: Think it through man, if you had a choice between Walmart or cheap RAM for your computer who would win?

Oh, it's not me making the choices it's China and the U.S. I've just kept my finger on the pulse for 7+ years reading everything I can get my hands on. The U.S. covertly trains junior and senior officers and specialty troops in the U.S. They have given the Taiwanese their latest command and control equipment and frequencies and trained forces together to ensure compatibility.

The U.S. has moved nukes to Guam and B-52s to utilizes them. The U.S. has 8 ballistic missle subs in the Pacific and has recently moved more carrier groups to the Far east. It is enlisting Japan, Australia, and other east asians to repel chinese aggression. The real reason for the attack on Afganistan was so central asia would not fall into China's sphere. Now we have troops in all those countries(kazakastan, etc). We have asked Russia to look to it's long ignored far east and asked India to redirect it's nukes to China.

We backed the E.U. ban on weapons tech to China. Oh, things are moving, good or bad.



[edit on 10/27/2004 by bodebliss]

Taiwan is sovereign, Kim says

"Former South Korean president Kim Young-sam said Taiwan's existence as a sovereign nation with democratically elected leaders cannot be denied

Taiwan is a sovereign country with national and local leaders directly elected by its people, former South Korean president Kim Young-sam said yesterday.

"Taiwan has a 23-million strong population. Its people elect the president, legislators and local governors. Taiwan is a sovereign nation," Kim told reporters at the Grand Hotel.

Chinese officials had endeavored to stop Kim from making the eight-day trip to Taiwan. They managed to persuade some of Kim's close friends to ask him not to visit Taipei and dispatched an official to his house to give him "gifts.""

I read that article, also, Hellmut.

It looks good for a turnaround in South Korea's relations w/ Taiwan.

Originally posted by bodebliss
I read that article, also, Hellmut.

It looks good for a turnaround in South Korea's relations w/ Taiwan.

Yeah, and Colin Powell apparently flip-flopped too in order to sell arms to Taiwan...

I see the U.S. as the facilitator of an arms sale rather than the chooser and promoter of a particular set of arms choices. It was Taiwan's military that came up w/ the package.

Powell just put his foot in his mouth, the State Dept. and White House are unwilling to condemn his gaff.

Now after the US election, the question regarding Taiwan�s independence is a hot topic.

From The China Post: U.S. should take 'concrete' steps on Taiwan independence: Beijing

The United States should take "concrete" steps to back its stand that it doesn't support independence for Taiwan, China said Thursday following the re-election of U.S. President George W. Bush, calling the issue key to smooth relations.

"The smooth development of China-U.S. relations requires that the U.S. side properly handles the Taiwan question," Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Zhang Qiyue said.

Chinese media have complained that Bush might be encouraging self-ruled Taiwan to pursue formal independence, a move that China says would lead to war.

Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Zhang Qiyue (picture)

Former President of Taiwan Lee Teng-hui have received death threats.
Click on Lee Teng-hui (picture) for the full article...

From Taipei Times: Lee Teng-hui fires salvos on the hustings

The former president was in his usual combative mood, taking swipes at his former party and pan-blue camp leaders as well as laughing off threats.

"I never took any money from the party. Some people used money but have blamed the loss of that money on me because they're feeling guilty," he said.

Lee also talked about the arms deal with the US that has been blocked in the legislature, saying the new weapons were necessary to defend Taiwan against China. But the former chief of the Navy [People First Party Legislator Nelson Ku] is opposing the deal. I would like to ask him why he wanted to purchase these weapons back when he was chief," Lee said.

"Actually, I am surrounded by a lot of bodyguards today. Some people have been threatening to kill me. But I am not scared of this kind of thing," he said.

From: Xinhuanet: Taiwan intends to build Asia's largest missile base

A large bunker project is being constructed at Jiupeng missile test-launching ground by Zhongshan Scientific Research Institute under Taiwan's "Defense Ministry", which, after completion in next year, will be used to deploy "Patriot III" missile system purchased from the United States

US intelligence satellite noticed recently that a large structure by reinforced concrete is being built at Jiupeng base belonged to Zhongshan institute. From its unusual thickness, the US side predicted it is a bunker able to resist heavy bombs. It is suspected the bunker is built for "special purpose", which may be related to Taiwan's alleged research of medium-range missiles and cruise missile, or even nuclear weapons.

High-ranking military officials from Taiwan made no comment on the ongoing construction, and firmly rejected the conjectures of "nuclear test ground" or "missile base".

From: Xinhuanet: Alert on Taiwan-Japan ties

Tokyo Governor Ishihara Shintaro, a typical representative of Japanese rightist forces, paid a visit to Taiwan late October under the guise of promoting the island's tourism industry.

But a string of political activities carried out by this notorious Japanese anti-China activist in past visits to Taiwan and his agenda this time have sent a strong signal that all these visits are heavily tinged politically.

During his latest stay in Taiwan, Shintaro did not stop at sight-seeing. He also met Taiwan "president" Chen Shui-bian and former "president" Lee Teng-hui, talking with them about independence for the island and the prospect of conceived US-Japan-Taiwan ties.

Security and military exchanges between Japan and Taiwan have also achieved substantial breakthroughs. In a forum between the two sides held not long ago, Taiwan "premier" Yu Shyi-kun even openly advocated Taiwan should set up more security dialogue channels with Japan given that both share a military alliance with the United States. This has exposed Taiwan's purpose in forging a new strategic triangle with Washington and Tokyo.

Click on Tokyo Governor Ishihara Shintaro (picture) for the full article...

China puts pressure on Taiwan. They demand that Taiwan must accept "One China" principle before any talks.

From: Xinhuanet: Chen urged not to distort "1992 Consensus"

An official with mainland China's Association for Relations Across the Taiwan Strait (ARATS) clarified the country's stance on the "1992 Consensus" Sunday in response to Taiwan leader Chen Shui-bian's appeal to restart cross-Strait talks based on the Consensus.

"If Chen disregards or distorts the historical facts on the Consensus, refusing to accept 'one-China' principle and is bent on'Taiwan independence,' he only proves his insincerity about restarting talks across the Strait and will runs counter to the expectation of the international community," the official said.

"If Chen would clearly acknowledge the precondition as well as the facts, while discarding his 'one country on each side' principle and 'Taiwan Independence' position, ARATS and SEF could resume talks," the official said.

Click on Chen Shui-bian for Xinhuanet�s article...

From: Channelnewsasia.com: US defends Taiwan call for dialogue with China

The United States defended Taiwan President Chen Shui-bian's call for a dialogue with China even though it has been angrily rejected by Beijing.

He called for wide-ranging peace talks and a code of conduct with Beijing to reduce cross strait tension and defuse a military build-up on both sides of the Taiwan Strait.

But China poured cold water on any potential dialogue and rejected Chen's call, accusing him of cheating public opinion and risking "great catastrophe" if he pushed for Taiwan independence.

I just wonder if the Taiwan-China situation have anything to do with Colin Powell�s resignition.
Colin Powell Resigns as Secretary of State
Maybe Colin wanted to have handled this whole Taiwan thing differently but was ordered to do/say something he didn�t want to? The fact is that Powell have made conflicting statements regarding Taiwan�s independence. He flip-flopped, remember (earlier in this thread)? Maybe he made a "mistake" and his words just came out wrong, but I don�t think so.
The question is what is more important? Arms-deal? Taiwan�s independence? Balance with China? If that�s the case, I know that I might have resigned. You don�t sell out your friends.

From: Taipei Times: China holding data on most Taiwanese

Chinese intelligence authorities have files on almost all the personal data of Taiwan's residents, Legislator Trong Chai of the ruling Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) said yesterday.

Chai quoted unidentified China-based Taiwanese businesspeople and intelligence sources as saying recently that Chinese intelligence officials have files on the personal data of almost every resident in Taiwan.

Chai said that China's intelligence authorities have established a task force to focus on Taiwan's legislative elections next month, including gathering personal data on the candidates. The task force is even dedicated to trying to influence the elections by having Taiwanese businesspeople in China return to Taiwan and vote or drum up support for candidates that are more to Beijing's liking, he said.

This election is going to be interesting...

Chen and his wife cast their votes early on Saturday

From: CNN: China sends fresh warning to Chen

China has officially reacted to Taiwan's surprise weekend election outcome, saying it showed the majority of the island's people wanted peace and to further develop relations with the mainland.

Taiwan President Chen Shui-bian, who has been pushing for greater independence from Beijing, suffered a setback in Saturday's parliamentary elections.

Change in cross-Strait relations can occur only "if the authorities in Taiwan recognize that there is only one China in the world and Taiwan is a part of it, and if they give up their Taiwan independence stance and stop Taiwan independence activities" (Li Weiyi, spokesman of the Cabinet-level Taiwan Affairs Office)

What the CCP wants is a boot-licking Taiwan.

I can tell you right now, that will never happen.

ATSNN-Story: Taiwan President Resigns as Ruling Party Head After Legislative Loss

"Taiwanese President Chen Shui-bian took the blame for a legislative election defeat and resigned as the leader of his party Tuesday"

Click the link for the full story

From: CNN: China: No independence for Taiwan

Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao opened the annual session of the National People's Congress in Beijing by saying a planned anti-secession law would never permit independence for Taiwan.

Addressing the gathering of almost 3,000 delegates in the vast Great Hall of the People on Saturday, Wen said the law reflects the "strong determination of the Chinese people to ... never allow secessionist forces working for `Taiwan independence' to separate Taiwan from China."

But in his two-hour speech Wen gave few details of a law that could provide a legal basis for an attack on the island.

"A dark cloud now overshadows the atmosphere of reconciliation," Taiwan President Chen Shui-bian said Tuesday in a videoconference with European lawmakers and academics.

Originally posted by Hellmutt
...................
I guess you might compare this to a scenario where Hawaii would want independence from US (and was backed by China)...

Totally different scenario....Taiwan was never truly part of China...and even if it was, the Chinese gave control "forever" over to the Japanese in 1895 with the Treaty of SHimonoseki.

Taiwan is an independent country, the Chinese government, and the people who have been brainwashed by the communist agenda, are the only ones that believe that Taiwan belongs to them....

I would also wish if it was possible for Taiwan to have it's independence in peace, but if it is necessary i hope we keep our word and stand behind the free people of Taiwan.

if my memory serves me right, Taiwan was also the first country in asia to be named as the first independent republic with the help of some Manchu officials.

---edited for errors---

[edit on 5-3-2005 by Muaddib]

Yep, i remembered correctly.

The Taiwan Republic
The Taiwanese didn't like the idea of incorporation into Japan, and on 25 May 1895 -- with the assistance of disenchanted Manchu officials -- the Taiwan Republic, the first independent republic in Asia was established. Here is the flag of the new nation:

Excerpted from.
www.taiwandc.org...

Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by Hellmutt
...................
I guess you might compare this to a scenario where Hawaii would want independence from US (and was backed by China)...

Totally different scenario....Taiwan was never truly part of China...and even if it was, the Chinese gave control "forever" over to the Japanese in 1895 with the Treaty of SHimonoseki.

Taiwan is an independent country, the Chinese government, and the people who have been brainwashed by the communist agenda, are the only ones that believe that Taiwan belongs to them....

I would also wish if it was possible for Taiwan to have it's independence in peace, but if it is necessary i hope we keep our word and stand behind the free people of Taiwan.

if my memory serves me right, Taiwan was also the first country in asia to be named as the first independent republic with the help of some Manchu officials.

---edited for errors---

[edit on 5-3-2005 by Muaddib]

@#$@!!!!!!!!!@!#!@#

Ok....Thinking of skippy.....

Putting the current debate of whether or not Taiwan wants to become part of China aside. Your claim that Taiwan was never part of China is ignorant at best, self-delusional at worst.

Go read the history books.
I can't even be bothered explaining the details to you.
Just answer this question, WHAT RACE OF PEOPLE DO YOU THINK LIVE IN TAIWAN?

As for the treaty, from 1840 onwards, the Chinese were forced to sign a set of unfair treaties with pretty much everyone. It is why it's called the "century of shame". It's the kind of treaties that you sign with a gun to your head.

As for the Manchu's, go look at something called the WORLD MAP, now, WHERE IS MANCHURIA? Thats right!! It's in CHINA!!

Your right, Muadibb, the Hawaii situation is nothing like Taiwan, Hawaii was once an independent nation. It was only annexed (oh i'm sorry, liberated) by the US at the turn of the Century. (Though it did experience occupation by the British before that)

Jeez, what on Earth do you Americans learn in history class????????