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Bush Lied About the Draft

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posted on Oct, 9 2004 @ 08:03 AM
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Bush stated at the Debate:

I hear there's rumors on the Internets (sic) that we're going to have a draft. We're not going to have a draft, period. The all- volunteer army works. It works particularly when we pay our troops well. It works when we make sure they've got housing, like we have done in the last military budgets.


Lies, in fact there is a "Back Door Draft" going on right now, how can he say the all-volunteer army works when he isn't using it? Soldiers are being forced to stay in the military or face a court martial. They don't have a choice to leave when their tour is over when there is a Stop-Loss order on them.

On a personal note. Staff Sergeant Matthew Kuster. Was packed and ready to leave his home base of Germany and come home to America 14 days before Bush's Back Door Draft forced him to deploy to Iraq. He now doing a tour in Tikrit, Iraq.

How can you say there is no draft when a Stop-Loss order is just that, it just has a nicer tone to it.

usatoday.com
Date: 1/5/2004
WASHINGTON The Army will announce as early as Tuesday new orders that will forbid thousands of soldiers from leaving the service after they return this year from Iraq, Afghanistan and other fronts in the war against terrorism, defense officials said Monday.

The "stop loss" orders mean personnel who could otherwise leave the military when their volunteer commitments expire will be forced to remain to the end of their overseas deployments and up to another 90 days after they come home. "Stop movement" orders also bar soldiers from moving to new assignments during the restricted period. The orders do not extend any unit's stay overseas.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


[edit on 9-10-2004 by deeprivergal]



posted on Oct, 9 2004 @ 08:33 AM
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I understand its an irrisistable compunction to "spin" stop loss into a draft when it is not, the facts as reported by the NY Times do not support this view.



www.nytimes.com...

The Coalition and the Draft

President Bush pledged that he would never reinstate the draft, and Senator Kerry likewise said he did not support a return to conscription. But the senator again accused the president of instituting "a back-door draft."

Mr. Kerry uses that phrase routinely on the campaign trail to characterize the large mobilizations of National Guard and Reserve troops since Sept. 11, 2001, as well as an Army "stop-loss" order that forbids active-duty troops to retire or to change assignments if their units are set to deploy to Iraq or Afghanistan. While the reserve call-ups and "stop-loss" orders have prompted loud complaints from some in uniform, they are within the military's discretion under contracts with those who voluntarily joined the Guard, Reserves and active-duty force.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Now I cannot think the view of stop loss as a "draft" is correct when the countries most notoriously liberal paper does not either.



posted on Oct, 9 2004 @ 08:37 AM
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I didn't realize that the NY Times was actually there being forced to fight in a war without any choice of their own... Sorry, I wasn't aware.

There is a draft, whether you want to sugar coat it or not it's there. This is not a volunteer army anymore.



posted on Oct, 9 2004 @ 08:42 AM
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Not only are people being forced to stay in beyond their commitment (meaning no longer voluntary) but from what I've heard people were being forced back in to service after they had already met their obligation and left. Again that isn't voluntary. And if he plans on invading another country (which I promise you he does) there will be a draft. But believe me he won't do it in the next few weeks. He'll wait until after the election. But watch for some dirty misworded article to be added to the Patriot Act 2 or something that allows him to force people into service without approval from congress.



posted on Oct, 9 2004 @ 08:47 AM
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I agree with you deeprivergal. US is forcing his military to extend service and stop retirement of some of his soldiers.

I agree with you also that he can paint it any color you want but is forced service any way you put it.

Last night bush stood in national tv and lie, lie about the back door draft, lie about the environment, lie about Iraq, and lie about the clean air act, he is a pathological liar.



posted on Oct, 9 2004 @ 08:49 AM
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Wasn't his dad the former head of the CIA? That would mean he learned to lie from one of the best.



posted on Oct, 9 2004 @ 09:23 AM
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Hah, clinton did stop loss and nodody called it a back door draft then, this just goes to show ya its all political and expediant when democrats want it both ways



American Forces Press Service


WASHINGTON -- When President Clinton mobilized 33,102 reservists
April 27, he also quietly gave the services the little-used
right to keep members in uniform past their normal separation or
retirement dates.

The presidential authority, called the Stop Loss program,
suspends laws related to military retirements, separations and
promotions. The president delegates it downward to the service
secretaries through Defense Secretary William S. Cohen.


www.defense.gov...

Whats worse is Clinton did this for "Monica's" war led by the infamous Gen. Clark. At least Bush who has two large theater wars and one smaller African operation underway as well as counter-terror activities, has much more of a reason to preserve unit cohesion than Clintons "operation look the other way" did.

Which would you rather have - a president that uses stop loss because there is demonstratable need or a president who uses stop loss for political gain.



posted on Oct, 9 2004 @ 09:50 AM
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That is nothing compare how bush out of spite forgot the bin-laden Al-qeda connection and revenge of 9/11 to go after his hart desires and attack Iraq to make it the biggest fiasco in the history of our country.

While Clinton will be remembered for having a "head" bush will be remembered for losing his head over Saddam and Iraq.



posted on Oct, 9 2004 @ 09:56 AM
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I had to laugh when he said there would not be any draft. What a liar. Who believes this?
Many people will be deceived and vote for him only to begin the draft as soon as he's elected.
People, please dont fall for this lie.
This is a war mongering president and he needs your children.



posted on Oct, 9 2004 @ 10:01 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043


While Clinton will be remembered for having a "head" bush will be remembered for losing his head over Saddam and Iraq.



very good Marg. You're fast on your "head"



posted on Oct, 9 2004 @ 10:06 AM
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this might be out of topic but if the patriot act is taking away rights isnt that illegal? "highest law of the land" must be followed right?



posted on Oct, 9 2004 @ 10:22 AM
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Originally posted by CookieMonster000
this might be out of topic but if the patriot act is taking away rights isnt that illegal? "highest law of the land" must be followed right?
But Bush said last night that its necessary and it will not take away your rights.

Wanna buy some swampland?



posted on Oct, 9 2004 @ 10:24 AM
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Originally posted by CookieMonster000
this might be out of topic but if the patriot act is taking away rights isnt that illegal? "highest law of the land" must be followed right?


Well not under the patrioct act "itself"



posted on Oct, 9 2004 @ 10:38 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
That is nothing compare how bush out of spite forgot the bin-laden Al-qeda connection and revenge of 9/11 to go after his hart desires and attack Iraq to make it the biggest fiasco in the history of our country.

While Clinton will be remembered for having a "head" bush will be remembered for losing his head over Saddam and Iraq.


Well its quite obvious the prevailing value demonstrated here is that you prefer style over substance, political advantage over true need, expediency over reality.

This demonstrates that certain voter demographics are indeed spot-on.



posted on Oct, 9 2004 @ 10:48 AM
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Fully fund the "No Child Left Behind" Act ... allow NATO to help (or completely take over) the training of Iraqis, something the group brought up as a possibility in a meeting a couple weeks ago, but was ignored by Bush ... implement a process to reduce Russia's loose material in four years rather than the 13 years it would take under Bush's plan ... work on a massive global counterproliferation effort which would include scrapping our own plans for bunker-busting nuclear bombs in an effort to hold ourselves to the same standards we ask of other countries ... increase active duty military spots by 40,000 so that we don't need to use a backdoor draft of National Guard reservists or a reinstated draft to fill our military needs ... remove catastrophic cases out of the healthcare system and pay for them via a federal fund so that they don't artifically impact healthcare premiums, which will allow more affordable personal plans, as well as allow small businesses to offer healthcare packages, which will increase the number of Americans covered ... raise the child-care credit by $1,000 for families to help them be able to take care of their kids ... have a $4,000 tuition tax credit that goes to parents -- and kids, if they're earning for themselves -- to be able to pay for college ... implement tax cuts for people making under $200,000, while repealing tax cuts back to the Clinton level for people making above that ... currently sponsoring a bill along with McCain that will eliminate tax loopholes for businesses that outsource jobs overseas ... create a manufacturing jobs credit and a new jobs credit for people to be able to help hire and be more competitive here in America ... reevaluate the Patriot Act so that it cannot be used in a way to deprive American citizens of their most basic rights ... put the 100-200k frozen embryos already stored away in fertility clinics to use by using them for stem cell research

***********************************************************

Looks like a whole lot of substance to me. Those are Kerry's plans that he laid out last night during the debate, btw.

Now, can one of you Bush supporters go thru and post the exact plans of what he is going to do the next four years in office, as stated in the debate last night? All I've heard is weak attacks on Kerry's character, and basically what Kerry said the president is proposing: "more of the same."

I've taken the time to go thru and easily disprove your stance that Kerry is no substance, now do the same for me please. Show me Bush's plans as laid out in the debate last night. The country is on the wrong path right now, so "more of the same" ain't gonna cut it. Where's the substance?



posted on Oct, 9 2004 @ 10:56 AM
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Phoenix let me show you something interesting that will tell you if we going at the rate of casualties in Iraq, either by death or injuries, because injure soldiers depending of injuries have to come back home, and if we don't replace them we will be short of troops in Iraq so eventually if Iraq conflict does not change for the better WE will need more troops, and how are we going to do that?

The government tells you of our death casualties but the injury casualties are not very clear.

This is a report back on 2004-9-15





TextMore than 200 U.S. troops were wounded in Iraq in the past week, the Pentagon said Tuesday, and the total since the invasion was launched in March 2003 is now 7,245.

Of the 219 wounded in the past week, 81 were returned to duty; the 138 others were not.

The Pentagon generally reports its wounded totals each week. Fatality totals are updated daily.

The number of Americans killed and wounded has grown rapidly amid an intensifying and increasingly effective insurgency. There were more wounded over the past five months -- about 4,000 -- than in the first 13 months of the war, when there were about 3,300, according to Pentagon reports.

georgebush.thetip.org...





If our country has to face another conflict right now we will have to do a draft, because as now we are in trouble thanks to bush and Iraq.

You wanted value here is the value, I can provide you with links on the injuries of the war in irag they are there to see.

And again even if kerry wins he will have to do a draft also.

Its a not win situation but when I comes to Iraq we are the losing party, the american people is in the losing party.



posted on Oct, 9 2004 @ 11:01 AM
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Originally posted by Phoenix
Well its quite obvious the prevailing value demonstrated here is that you prefer style over substance, political advantage over true need, expediency over reality.

This demonstrates that certain voter demographics are indeed spot-on.


You know the old saying change the subject when your argument is weak or proved wrong.

Men and women signed a service agreement acknowledging "stop loss" was a possibility - this in and of itself refutes the "draft" issue.

I find it interesting that those who call it a back door draft and are criticising Bush's using it have absolutely no problem with the fact Clinton used it. Kinda says it all.



posted on Oct, 9 2004 @ 11:33 AM
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I don't know about the details of cited soldiers...ie: how long they have served. However, I do know that when an individual signs a contract to serve in the military they, no matter how many active years they sign for (most are 3 year to 4 year terms) sign up for 8 years of federal service.

Now say this SSG (Staff Sergeant) has 1 year left on that initial contract (of 8 years) meaning he's done 7 for you mathmatically challenged individuals out there, he still is subject to the government's whims. IE: Fighting a war.

Furthermore, during times of crisis, the government can excercise it's power to maintain current troop levels. The only way I see people calling this a back-door draft is that they are too naive to understand the complete picture and they are falling in with the same line that their "parties" are saying. So, what you get is a failure to use the good brain that God gave you, and for you non-believers out there--well whatever you believe gave you life--and instead fall right into that age old role of a zombified follower who is pretty much sucking the resources out of this world and waiting for the next spun report coming out so you can get out your pompoms and join the political circus.



posted on Oct, 9 2004 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by Marg6043


If our country has to face another conflict right now we will have to do a draft, because as now we are in trouble thanks to bush and Iraq.


Marg I have much sympathy for the killed, wounded and families of soldiers who have laid it all on the line to fight for freedom, I applaud your concern also.

I cannot subscribe to your assertion that these casuality numbers will break the army though - its unreasonable to make the assertion as you have.

With that said if another conflict comes to pass the countries involved will share much blame in the cause and our reaction, Saddam for instance having no WMD as some believe, caused his own demise as dictator of Iraq by playing games with the UN inspection process for years and years to the point of having countries such as France and Germany, politicians such as Kerry come out and say that he was a threat with possesion of WMD. These are words and actions supported by Kerry and the axis of weasels - that point cannot be denied no matter how much spin is applied.

So saying we're in trouble with Iraq thanks to Bush completly misses the mark.

No we're having difficulties in Iraq due to Saddams actions and threats.

Saying we had an intelligence failure would be more on on the mark but who had a hand in that with massive cuts in budgets - hmmmm.

[edit on 9-10-2004 by Phoenix]



posted on Oct, 9 2004 @ 11:58 AM
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It is ok for Bush to do it because Clinton did it? WTF? I though Bush was running for president, not Clinton. Also, the republicans impeach Clinton over a blow job, but do nothing about Bush's lieing. Also, leaving out facts is a form of lieing. Like the CIA reports saying no WMDs in Iraq, but showing the Donald papers saying that there are WMDs in Iraq to the congress, congress votes for war, then when they learn the truth that Bush hid from them, go against the war and the Bushies call it flip flopping.

Fine. "Here is evidence God is Bush." Show a document from Donald and Cheney and Karl. But hide the other 50,000 reports saying Bush isn't god. Then when everyone goes to hell for worshipping someone other then god, lets see how you feel. Bet you would go against the decision to worship Bush as god if you had the other documents, not just the ones Bush&Co showed you saying he was.




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