What you're doing wrong in an interview... and in your life.

reply to post by TheRedneck


Not sure if this has been covered or not, but as a small business owner myself...what about:

1. Tenacity
2. Endurance
3. Willingness to take the lead
4. Personality (since I have something to sell)
5. HONESTY...just let me know you will be 15 minutes late and then I can think about replacing your incompetent @$$

ETA
BTW, I will not babysit you...nor make you feel comfortable at work. As a matter of fact you should be walking on pins and needles the way I see it. Please tread light Just as I had to bust my @$$ to make it this far...so shall you.

reply to post by TheRedneck


thats great ..You're hired.

You can start on Monday.

I'm about to have a store meeting in 3 hours about a lot of this stuff. We have a new manager that doesn't play around, good thing he likes me and without a doubt have me help him talk to the other employes during the meeting. I'm nervous as heck right now but I'll do my job. That's what you you gotta do right? Good thread TheRedneck.

reply to post by Taupin Desciple


All nice and dandy but we are talking about people, there are no such things as workers unless you talk about bees and ants.

It's all about feeling treated fairly, on both sides. Now that the economy is low, companies are behind the steering wheel. Now they can ask impertinent questions like "how much do you love your parents". Actually a true question.

Then when the economy is up like 10 years ago we had IT people getting a car if the wanted to join that particular company!

It's just a market like any market, but the items here are people.

Originally posted by hathorschild
reply to post by TheRedneck

 

Not sure if this has been covered or not, but as a small business owner myself...what about:

1. Tenacity
2. Endurance
3. Willingness to take the lead
4. Personality (since I have something to sell)
5. HONESTY...just let me know you will be 15 minutes late and then I can think about replacing your incompetent @$$

ETA
BTW, I will not babysit you...nor make you feel comfortable at work. As a matter of fact you should be walking on pins and needles the way I see it. Please tread light

Just as I had to bust my @$$ to make it this

So, in summary, you want to actively make your employees miserable while expecting them to be high-performing overachievers. Because you earned it.

You are either incredibly wise, or took the advice of the personality test you took, when it said Sadist Megalomaniacs fare best when they have no one to answer to.

I guess there is no chicken or egg mystery at work here, huh?

I am gonna just go sit over here and wait for Leona Helmsley and Kathy Lee Gifford to show up :checks watch:

reply to post by NightShift

Drawing a line in the sand like that is doing you no favors

Perhaps... and perhaps not.

Every so often, I tend to go through a very reflective stage where I re-examine my goals and ambitions. Sometimes this leads to a major life change; sometimes it reinforces my present direction. It's always a good idea to check the map every once in a while on a trip, and a trip is exactly what life is.

This thread was the result of that re-evaluation of my priorities. As I thought over some of the things that have brought me to where I am now, those thoughts came spewing out like a soft drink in a roller coaster. Maybe there's someone who desperately needs to hear them, or maybe I just needed to get it off my chest; I don't know which.

What I do know is that I am tired of seeing the daily whining, not just here but everywhere I go, about why "the man" is out to keep someone down and why the boss is the bad guy. It's just not true. All that is happening is that two groups are both trying to get all they can from the other. Many have pointed out, and rightly so, that it is a two-way street; that employers have a duty to treat employees with respect. I agree with that, and I know it doesn't always happen. But that no more reflects on all employers than one lazy worker reflects on all.

What you have read thus far is only the barest tip of the experiences I have had either as an employee or an employer. I selected those anecdotes to illustrate points to clarify my positions.

We are moving forward into a new world. While I suspect it will be worse than the one we leave behind, I know for a fact that certain things will not change. People will be as self-absorbed as they are now, as intolerant as they are now, and as judgmental as they are now. Those are basic human characteristics. Those who are able to rise above this will be the ones who succeed: the Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and Mark Zuckerbergs. The rest will fade into obscurity of their own volition, the whole time firmly convinced they are faultless.

Sad.

But if I can help someone through this thread to see their own faults and to thus improve their lot in life, amid the turmoil of deep thought that presently envelopes me, then that is a good thing. Anyone who reads this and dismisses it as fantasy will be no worse off. Opportunities to help without the risk of harming some in the process are rare.

TheRedneck

reply to post by seamus

I watched my father work himself into four heart attacks in three years ON SALARY working up to 90 hours a week as a manufacturing process engineer.

My father was less than 2 years from retirement when he suffered a cranial blood clot. He continued to work for a week with the headache that later the doctor explained was an indication that his brain was lacking oxygen in that area. I watched the whole thing, just as you watched your father.

There is no incentive to 'give more' for an industrial employer...

Not as long as you see the job as no more than service to one person or company.

A very wise man told me when I was young to never work strictly for someone else... always work for yourself. When you take a job, do you do it to be nice to your employer? No! You take it because you need the money, typically. So your purpose is to serve yourself, and that is exactly the way it should be. All I am saying is than when you do try to get that job in order to help yourself, understand what needs to be done in order to get, maintain, and excel in that job. You do not serve yourself by entering a contest you cannot hope to win.

The employer is interested in getting his job done. The employee is interested in getting paid. Again, there is nothing wrong with that situation. Where things go awry is when one party begins to act in a self-destructive manner toward the other, effectively causing both to lose their advantage until they part ways. If the employer does this regularly, they will not be an employer for long; simple economics will relegate then to to insignificance. If an employee does this, they have done nothing more than cost themselves their job and the associated benefits, since no decent employer will put up with poor behavior or lack of drive to produce. If they do it regularly, they will be forced into the lower-paying and most abusive jobs available just to survive.

It's a lose-lose situation.

Middle management is largely to blame for the current state of hostilities between labor and industry.

Agree and disagree.

Middle management is far from a utopia. Sadly, many companies have hired managers who lack an understanding of leadership and a sense of business. Yes, these "wanna-bes" are largely responsible for the problems between management and labor, but they are also easily neutralized. A high turnover rate is a red flag for upper management that there may be a problem... meaning any drop in productivity when investigated will cause those who regularly abuse their position to lose that position.

On the other hand, I do not discount the childish and counterproductive attitudes typically harbored by employees either. It takes little for management to find an excuse to explain away what is actually intended to be retaliation for perceived abuse as just a disgruntled worker. Most employees give enough ammunition to management in a single week to allow them to be shown in an unfavorable light for a year. The result is that when they are let go, that becomes a feather in the cap of the very people they were trying to hurt, because the company just "got rid of a troublemaker". Let someone with a high productivity record and no history of problems be let go suddenly, and that feather is more of a whip being used to find out why.

This drama is not going to be on the 11:00 news; it happens behind closed doors, out of sight. But it does happen.

The fault is on both groups.

As if the wages paid by small businesses (as opposed to larger corporations) are livable with energy costs going the way they are.

You are taking two dynamics out of the picture.

An employee must agree to their wage; no one has ever been forced to work for a particular wage in this country within our lifetimes. You may feel you have no choice, but no one is stopping you from simply stating "I quit" and walking out. The only thing stopping you is (legitimate) concern over the consequences of that action. So if the consequences of not having the low-paying job are so bad, why would you be angry with the company that gave you the job?

Secondly, the cost of living is historically tied tightly to the minimum wage. The higher the minimum wage goes, the higher the costs of the things we all feel we need go. The end result is that although more money is flowing, the cost of living has actually risen compared to wages. That is not a dynamic of your employer, but of your government and society.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


I agree with a lot of what you say. There will always be people who are hostile toward management no matter what, just like there will always be some jerks in management. Sometimes its not such a concrete thing but rather just a personality clash.

Good people/happy workers are self-reinforcing. I find I can do amazing things, more than I thought possible, when I have a good team and especially a good boss. My current boss brings out the best in me, and I guess I just wish everyone could have that. I am a happier, better person in all aspects because of it. And that makes me a better worker in all aspects as well.

reply to post by BMorris


That's how I read it. A one-sided deal. Meet the new boss same as the old boss. What about work/life balance? What about profit-sharing? I could go on, but you get my drift.

Anyone see the movie Office Space lately. Lack of employee motivation comes from the top. Incentives anyone?

reply to post by InTheLight

What about work/life balance?

The balance you strike between work and personal life is your decision; it has nothing to do with your boss. If you need more personal time, take a job with less hours. In any case, one cannot balance work with anything while at work; it is not your personal time if you sell it.

What about profit-sharing?

If the company offers it, fine. I personally think it could be a good idea. But that's a benefit you must negotiate at the beginning. The fastest way to tick off your boss is to say "I think we need a profit sharing program." What he will probably hear is, "I want more money, and since I don't want to work harder, I think you should give me some of yours."

What employees tend to forget is that they are not the company. They didn't invest money into it; they didn't risk their life savings starting it up; they didn't struggle to survive in the early start-up days; they didn't stay up all night trying to meet deadlines. They made a trade: hours of labor/talent/skill for money.

In short, the company profits are not your money. Your paycheck is your money. If you want company profits, start a company.

I'm really not picking on you intentionally, really, but you just brought up one of the biggest problems I have seen: the never-ending gimme-gimme-gimme I-want-more-more-gimme-more attitude so many people have today. If you go to buy a car and come to an agreement of, say, $20,000 and your trade for the new car, sign the paperwork, and then two weeks later get a call from the dealership saying "You need to pay me a $500 thank you fee since I made you such a good deal on that car", what are you going to say?

That's exactly what you do when you strike a deal for employment, then start complaining because you don't like the deal. We call it "reneging" around here.

TheRedneck

You exemplify all that is wrong with this one-sided deal. You forget your employees make or break your company, without your employees you don't have a business. Unionization anyone?

Hey, I used to follow those rules, but it is give and take. I am expecting "loyalty" from my employer, not dumping my ass as soon as it is economically viable to do so. Most employers like to preach we are one big family, then goes out and lays people off and skips out on paying severance their staff.

This thread assumes that most of us are lazy. I for one just want to go to work, do my job (and do it well by the way, I take pride in my work) but I really don't want to have to deal with all the "politics" - boss likes this person, lets them go around the rules, idiot meetings where you have to laugh at stupid jokes. That crap makes my blood boil.


------------------------------------------------------


Those who are able to rise above this will be the ones who succeed: the Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and Mark Zuckerbergs.

Bill Gates - stole to get where he is today
Steve Jobs - Was an absolute tool to work for
Mark Zuckerberg - Yet another bright star who doesn't mind stealing other peoples work to make a profit.

If this is the best and brightest that we have to look towards moving forward then I will take a pass on that one.

You've explained to me what I'm doing wrong in the workplace, and in my life. Now let me explain what "They" are doing wrong in the workplace.(and in life)


1. Expecting me (and nearly everyone else there) to perform the work of 3-4 people, and calling it "working smarter" and "increasing productivity". I'm working like a maniac to get the project done, yet I could be 7.2% more productive if I only "worked a little smarter."

2. Scapegoating workers for company problems when the company was too damn greedy to
spend the resources to properly train the workers. I see this on a daily basis.
Workers are expected to be clairvoyant automatons. You (along with other employers) describe it as "hitting the ground running" or "producing from day one" and other trendy lingo.
We're somehow just supposed to KNOW how it's all done! After all, people who can "hit the ground running" don't need any real training.

3. Endlessly promoting vicious, egomaniacal and downright psychopathic personality types into management positions because for some reason these pricks are suited for corporate management slots. (I've witnessed this a hundred times in a dozen different corporations. It's absolutely commonplace, and it's downright frightening.) Aside from maybe congress, the biggest reptiles on the planet are in corporate management.

4. Taking workers who have, for 3-4 decades, displayed every single one of these traits which you demand, and kicking them out the door because they put a little crimp in the precious "bottom line".

What is all this nonsense about loyalty and profit-sharing and unioins?

The employer offers up a job for a certain amount of pay, and they try to pick the best person to do that job, and if you are that person, you do the job for the pay offered. If you don't like the deal, don't take it. If they promise profit-sharing, then fine, but if they don't promise it, then don't expect it. Don't expect bonuses, and don't expect raises or promotions unless you make yourself valuable enough to deserve them. Don't expect loyalty, if times get hard, and the company has to retract, it is going to do whatever it takes to survive, you would do the same. If a better job comes along elsewhere, then you should take it. There is no reason for loyalty, it is merely a business relationship, you aren't getting married.

This is the Walmart mentality. People think they can get their money back and satisfaction guaranteed no matter what. That is stupid. If you break something, or buy something that was a piece of crap to begin with, then you don't deserve your money back. If you screw up the relationship with your employer, its over. If you pick a bad employer to begin with, then move on, find a better one, don't whine and complain about loyalty or unions. Ridiculous.

All the stuff Redneck said in the beginning was to benefit you as an employee. You don't talk bad about your employer, because you still work there, and you need those customers as much as your boss does. BUT, if it really is a terrible place to work, then find a new employer, and then talk bad about the old one and move people to the new one.

Pensions? Why? They paid you for 20 or 30 years or whatever, why should they worry about your retirement? You had all that time and all those paychecks to prepare for your retirement. Severance pay? What the hell is that for? Paying you for not working there anymore? If the relationship ended, then something went wrong. Either they are running lean on money, or you were a bad employee, either way severance pay doesn't make a bit of sense.

Back to my old buddy's advice, "They promised to pay me X amount every week, and I promised to show up and do what they ask. That was the deal. They have never refused to pay me, and I have always done what they asked." Simple. If you don't like it, go somewhere else. If there isn't anywhere else to go, then learn to like and appreciate what you got!

Like how all the business owners in this thread get their panties in a bunch when the employee expects a little in return. Sounds like they want to be a feudal lord and have some serfs working the fields for them.

Treat someone like crap and expect them to smile back.

I am on my 3rd Job since turning 16 and at 34 I can tell you that going in being on time and doing what your told will almost always keep you in a job ( got made redundant once).

I can say though that employers here in the UK know fine well that its an employers market so they can treat people any way they like, because there 20 people ready to fill the shoes of the people who want to be treated like decent human beings.

My last work place was very vicious from a managment point of view and the goal was to crush the people below you to show how good you where at people managment not getting results. ( I did work in managment so I know what it was like)

Finding an empolyer that realises you actually have a life outside of the work place is a rare find. Work has just become a new kind of slavery in that you tie yourself to a horrible place because you have too much debt. Employers know this and exploit it.

I vowed to stay out of the trap and can now pick and coose where and when to work most of the time.

I will never again work for a boss or owner of a business that feels he/she can lord it over me with some false sence of there importance in my life.

I live by one tennant when it comes to work now "I WORK TO LIVE NOT LIVE TO WORK"

Originally posted by MidnightTide
Like how all the business owners in this thread get their panties in a bunch when the employee expects a little in return. Sounds like they want to be a feudal lord and have some serfs working the fields for them.

Treat someone like crap and expect them to smile back.

I've never treated anyone like crap. I've fired a lot of people though. I've also hired, and promoted a lot of people, I've helped people set up their own businesses, and I've trained people that ended up going to competitors and getting promoted and becoming very successful, even making more money than me, and I was thrilled for them, and I'm still friends with a lot of them.

What we hate is the entitlement personality. If you just show up and do your job, then you'll keep your job and your position. No bonuses, no promotions, but definite job security. If you go above and beyond, then I'll go above and beyond to help you. If you pace yourself, dodge work when possible, and try to just get by, then you might last awhile if its convenient for both of us, but eventually you'll be replaced by someone more energetic and motivated.

I've never had anyone that was surprised when I fired them. They had ample opportunities, warnings, re-trainings, and terse conversations laying my expectations on the line and warning them exactly what would happen if those expectations weren't met. Never once have I had someone surprised when I called them to my office and gave them the bad news. In fact, they are almost always apologizing to me for having let things get so bad and fall so far.

LoL! I really don't think some of the content in this thread could be anymore misogynistic and patriarchal. Clearly we all need to learn our proper place in the world. Excuse me while I go put on my short skirt and practice my smiling and my "yes sirs" and "no sirs".

How about we all just give 100% and focus on the same end product? Employers and well as employees.

reply to post by InTheLight

And you forget that without the business, those employees have no job.

Ironically, this is one of the things I am considering: is it even feasible to hire people in today's society, what with all the concessions that have been negotiated? I'm coming to the conclusion it probably is still feasible, but barely. I do not consider it feasible to spend my time and money and sweat on something that someone else will expect to just walk in and take from me; thankfully, I believe at this time I will be able to start up with a few hand-picked employees, mostly older workers who do not have the youthful sense of entitlement.

Again, you want the company profits, or feel you deserve the company profits? Start a company and they're all yours.

TheRedneck

reply to post by getreadyalready
reply to post by TheRedneck


Not everyone is some entitlement seeking individual. I signed up for my job at a certain pay and personally I haven't gotten a raise in 5 years because of the bad economy and I haven't complained, I understand that times are hard and if they hand out raises they also might want to hand out pink slips.

Some of us are hard workers who put 110% each and everyday for our employer. We just expect the same in return. Yes, we could look for other employment and yes, some perhaps would be able to start their own business.....but wouldn't you want an employee that was loyal to you, as you are to them. Not saying either of you are bad employers but understand for as many entitlement employees, there are employers with the same ME ME ME attitude.