Why were the Green Berets called in for a missing persons search?

National Parks are vast areas of unspoilt wilderness, complete with dangerous terrain. Kids can get lost in their back yard; no special conspiracy is required for them to wander off into a vast wilderness, get lost, and never be found, especially if they do the wrong thing and keep moving instead of staying put once they realize they are lost.

As far as I know this was about very strange and odd disappearances not just "aww he got lost in the wildernes".

Please listen to this radiointerview with the author of missing 411.

40 minute program...

One thing I do love about Coast to Coast is that they will often get some great story tellers on there. But nothing mentioned in this thread so far sounds all 'woh what the heck' out of the ordinary to me. So all I can offer you at the moment is a 'maybe later' eh?

reply to post by 11andrew34


Well, its worth it!

Its really the strange cases that raise flags for me. Im pretty freaked by what that guy has to say!

As tragic as a missing child is there were several elements in the Missing 411 narrative about Dennis Martin that were left out. He cited the park service report but omitted crucial elements that point towards an abduction/kidnapping by human means. How does he square this?

The Park Services' report.

web.knoxnews.com...

On Page 138 of Missing he stated "forty Special Forces (Green Berets) from the Third Army Headquartered in Fort Benning GA, were requested and dispatched."

(According to the report it totaled 71 at its zenith.)

This report stated that these troops were actually on a training missing numbering 400 strong just across the state line in the Nantahala National Forest, Gorge, North Carolina.

This is a distance of approximately 50-70 miles away from Spence Field. he made it sound like they were brought in from Texas or some special congressional meeting was held for this to happen. The National Guard was also called in as well as the Air Guard and a continent of Coast Guard reserves.

Contrary to his insistence it is not unusual for the military to be armed. After all they were already in a training mode not far from Spence field. If there was some conspiracy to cover something up why not muster the remaining 360 Special Forces troops?

It is also worth mentioning the report mentions the reason that Cades cove road area was closed was due to it being converted into a helipad and to keep the curiosity seekers at bay. I guess having a CH-47 or UH-1H landing on someone would have made a bad situation worse, not because of a sighting as he make it out to be.

On page 143 he wrote about appendix "f" and suggestions. However, appendix f includes predictions, suggestions and suspicions. Why did he omit the entire section of suspicions?

The Park Service report appendix F "SUSPICIONS"

The family had suspicions concerning several persons, especially during the later stages of the search:

Richard French, Dandridge Tennessee, contractor. (His name was listed as John Doe in the Coast guard paper)

Mrs. Martin felt that the lady in Miami and Mr. French or others could possibly have taken Dennis for reasons unknown.

Billy Noland Psychic Interpreter, New Orleans. Here without funds and equipment. Wants permission t stay in area for several days. Sure he can find boy without funds, food or shelter.

Carter Martin, other Martins camped at Spence Field. Could someone have gotten the two Martin families mixed up and kidnapped the wrong boy?

As stated before the FBI has no evidence to start any large investigation on any of this. The fact should be noted the family may be avoiding acceptance of the possibility the boy will never be accounted for.

On page 140 of Missing he wrote, "It was unclear what path the FBI was taking or the motivation or reason for its interest in the case. The Park Service report lists the FBI as a consultant. What is unclear about that? Why did he leave this element out as well?

Additionally, he also claimed that he spoke with the Martins. Everything published ever stipulates that they don't give interviews, with the exception of keeping in touch with Dwight McCarter. So based on the reported omissions and other "less that truthful" accounts throughout both books are we to believe the printed accounts and report or his word? I have a hard time believing that he just showed up and was granted an interview. How is it that he didn't interview survivors of people that disappeared, but everyone else?

This report is a fascinating read. I would place more credibility on the facts contained in it rather than his amended facts. There may be some issues that were left out regarding interviews and other information; however, one really has to QUESTION why certain facts contained in the Park Service report were omitted from his narrative.

This guy is out to sell books and he's doing it in the mosty sleezy way possible. Trampeling on the memories of the surviving familiy members, the legacy and memory of those that dissaperaed who were mostly children!

reply to post by Woodson


Thanks for taking the time to research this case and call out what doesnt make any sence. I have not read the book, so I cant really make a judgement. But I will read and research it critically.

However, the Dennis Martin case is only one of hundreds of cases and even if Mr. Paulides exagerated a bit to sell his book there sure are some strange cases! You have read to book, so you know what im talking about. Do you believe all of the cases in both books can be easily explained by predatores and sick people/serial killers?

I have just listened to all of his radio interviews and I believe there are some truly freaky cases that defy logic IMO.

Where do you draw the line, from making a buck and trading the deaths and disappearances of people, especially if you are implying that something strange is going on in the great outdoors?

I don’t see how he could have spent 7000+ hours and not have found some of the information he left out. For example the Bart Schleyer story he recounts on his radio interviews from the Yukon. Paulides states that only a part of his skull and some teeth were found. He thought it very strange and unexplainable.

However, if you were to do some more searching you would find the following articles about Bart. They found his remains about three weeks later in bear and coyote scat. They also found human bones. David would have you believe something else. It is conceivable and rationalized that he was surprised by a grizzly bear then incapacitated and/or killed, as Human remains were found in both grizzly and coyote scat. The conclusion reached was that he was eaten and then scavenged by other animals. They found coyote and grizzly tracks, but no OTHER tracks. The only thing unusual is the way he was killed not that he died or by what. David conveniently left all this out. A very tragic yet explainable death, nothing sinister or conspiracy related about it. I wonder how his family would react to this disrespectful disregard for his life and memory to have his death portrayed as something it wasn’t.

(Obituary)

ebookbrowse.com...

(Bart Schleyer remains found Published: October 24, 2004)

www.carnivoreconservation.org...

(Bart Schleyer remains found in scat)

www.outdoorlife.com...

Then there is the Kenneth R. Schneider’s case from Utah. David wrote that Kenneth walked away and disappeared from his car and the San Juan County Sherriff’s Office still holds a case file on Kenneth Schneider,” Kenneth’s remains were found in 2011, a year prior to Paulides publishing his book. Two articles were found online attributing this find to a hiker. He remains were found 3.1 miles from his abandoned car. Paulides’ writes, “Police were able to contact Kenneth’s family and determined that he had a hip condition that prevented him from walking more than a half a mile without discomfort.”

This may or may not be the case. No issue of him being found 3.1 miles away was mentioned as mysterious or inconceivable when he was found if he did have a hip issue as David asserts. The article mentioned him having high blood pressure, which could have contributed to a heart attack. He did not have his medication, it was left in his car.

So 7000 hours and 3 years investigating these cases and he didn’t find this article dated May 19, 2011? Almost a year before he published?

www.dailymail.co.uk...

www.cbsnews.com...

Then there is the case of Evan Thompson who also disappeared, but was found alive in Utah. On page 235 he wrote, “Searchers stated that from the prints they found, they estimated Evan walked over eleven miles in the four days he was missing”.

According to the news accounts he was found about five miles away from the campsite. No mention of eleven miles came up anywhere. The article went on to say, helicopters scared the boy, who has attention deficit and hyperactivity disorder, into hiding. "He was afraid of that noise and he hid in a cave, that's why they couldn't find him with that."

www.azcentral.com...

How about Jay Toney who became lost in the GSNP. According to David, Jay Toney was a diabetic who went missing in the Smokies and was found a day later and eight miles from where he was last seen. He was found on a bank near a creek wearing only a tank top and one shoe. He was eventually transported to a hospital, received medical attention and survived. Toney was quoted in the book that he wanted out of the Smokies! I found a few articles regarding Jay Toney. One wrote about him wearing pants contrary to what Paulides writes, the other didn't stipulate. BOTH articles quote Jay as being found at the same distance, 4 miles from where he was last observed, not eight as David wrote.

It's quite clear that he used the 8 miles it took to transport Jay as a linear distance he was found, not the 4 miles as reported; this is just utterly unconceivable and outright disingenuous!

newsok.com...

news.google.com...,6543757

news.google.com...,7303123

I guess I will have to reconsider my opinion. I still have not read the books and there are still some cases he mentionen that are pretty strange. I don´t have the names right now. Again, thank ou for researching these cases, maybe you should write David Paulides? I would like to hear his responce.

Anyway, I will still order at least one of the Missing 411 books and do my own research about the cases. I just have to do it.

I have a question for you. How many of the cases you´ve researched turned out to be unsolved and strange to this day? There are about 470ish cases, I really can´t imagine that all of them turned out like the ones you have presented here. Thanks!

Greets

Hesse

reply to post by hesse


I have been away for a while. I looked into a few more cases; however, I stopped after my brother returned a book I forgot I had and has been mentioned on other sites as a counter-argument to Mr. Paulides. OFF THE WALL Death in Yosemite. The authors, one of which is a retired ranger, with a Search and Rescue background cataloged 1300 cases of incidents that occurred in the park since its existence. The compelling issue is that they (authors) clearly state that they used resources that included FOIA, superintendent monthly reports and law enforcement coroner files in adding their research.

Personally after looking more closely at Mr. Paulides I think he out for himself and writing a book alleging government conspiracies with no corroborating evidence is just sullying the memories of people that have died in order to make some coin.

www.rangerup.com...

"I hunt the things that go bump in the night..."

The company is founded by Green Berets; question answered!