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FAO Bitish plane nuts

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posted on Oct, 6 2004 @ 12:06 PM
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For the Brits only this. I've just seen an advert on Discovery for a new series on Discovery Wings from Oct 16th, Classic British Aircraft is presented by none other than Harry Enfield! I wonder if he'll do it in character?


"You don't wanna be building bombers with engines on sticks! You wanna be making big delta's with the engines in the roots!"*Roly Falk footage rolling the Vulcan at Farnborough*" Now, I do not believe you wanted to do that!"

Why do Americans always seem to follow their advanced projects through? "'Cos they've got LOADSAMONEY!!!"


Tim nice but dim "Er, ya, um when you hit this sound barrier thingy, wont it break or something? Huh?"

Seriously, I reckon it will be dead straight but very interesting, I'll be watching.

Sorry the rest of you who've read this without a clue what I'm on about, you were warned in advance



posted on Oct, 7 2004 @ 03:01 PM
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Sounds nice Waynos.

IMO the V-bombers get all too little coverage (and besides a couple of rerun old videos I'd say that applied to some of the more interesting US stuff too like the B47, B57, B58 and my fav the XB70....also I'd love to see a program featuring the F108 fighter companion for the Valkyrie).

I think the program makers also miss a trick by not telling the story of the various competitions for each type. I'd like to see the losing designs, talk of why certain features were chosen and others discarded. I also think the later proposed stretches and updates (particularly those that never actually happened) are a tale of interest that is rarely told.....phase 6 winged Vulcan B3?

(as an example of what I'm talking about I refer anyone to Bill Gunston's book on the F 111; it was book 2 in the Modern Combat Aircraft series by Ian Allan. This is an excellent book featuring the losing designs to the TFX competition and the various models of F 111 including the cancelled F 111B & the UK's F 111k. It also has a section on the proposed FB 111h B1 replacement.)

I loved the Avro 730 stuff BTW.

Maybe there could be a skint of head of the UK MOD as 'bugger-all money'?



[edit on 10-10-2004 by sminkeypinkey]



posted on Oct, 7 2004 @ 04:34 PM
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One of those Avro 730 pictures is now my wallpaper. If you haven't seen them yet I recommend Tony Buttlers "British Secret Projects" trilogy of books and especially Derek Woods "project cancelled" There's a wealth of information and pictures showing lost UK designs, many of which you have to say deserved an early death. It also gives you intersting insight into other developments, for example that the Vickers 581 VG naval fighter and RAF strike proposal developed by Barnes Wallis from the Swallow project became a joint R&D effort with NASA who then passed it all on to General Dynamics who themselves (massively) redesigned the proposal which emerged finally as the F-111! What a chain! and how ironic that the F-111 was partly responsible (not least by its availability) for the death of TSR2.

I wonder too if you are aware that the Nimrod was just a cut price alternative to the HS.800? Basically the HS.800 was developed from the Trident in exactly the same way as the HS.801 (Nimrod) was from the Comet.

On about the Vulcan, Project Cancelled gives ample coverage to the various versions, a skybolt carrier, a much enlarged "Phase 6" B.3 with bomb panniers on the wings, a 'fighter escort' version with three Gnats under it and also an early one the Avro Atlantic long range airliner. I, like you, love all this sort of stuff.

These books have some fascinating stories in them and I could ramble on for hours if I didn't have work tomorrow




[edit on 7-10-2004 by waynos]



posted on Oct, 7 2004 @ 09:17 PM
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I'm an English loving Colonial Boy...does that count.

Anyone remember when the Panavia Tornado GR.1 was just the MRCA (Multi Role Combat Aircraft) ?

In the aftermath of the foolish cancellation of the TSR.2, and the politically inspired and doomed F-111K, I understand the wags in the RAF and industry were saying it stood for "Must Refurbish Canberra Again"

I too love the obscure and forgotten what ifs.

Slightly older, in WW2 Australia took the basic Wirraway trainer, a Dakota engine and produced the CAC Boomerang as an emergency fighter. Its low ceilling and the eventual supply of Spitfires, Kittyhawks and Mustangs relegated it to Army Co-Op missions in the jungles (including allegedly. a unique and dangerous role in chopping down swathes of high Kunai Grass on the northern plains of PNG with thier propellers in advance of the troops!)

CAC also produced protoypes of a medium twin engined armoured bomber called the Woomera. It had remote control barbetts fitted to the rear of the engine cowlings. Again supply of US built Bostons and Mitchells led to the demise of the aircraft.

In 1945 CAC flew the prototype of its CA-15? long range interceptor escort fighter. It was said it was faster, more manouverable and longer ranged than the P-51 Mustang, and would have been the fastest piston engined fighter in the world if it had entered service. Its proposed armament included up to eight MGs or six 20mm cannon (optimistic). Indeed, it looked like a Mustang on steriods, but then CAC built Mustangs under license.

The RAAF soldiered on with US and Australian built Mustangs until receiving Meteor F-8s and Vampire FBs in the 1950s. CAC redisigned the F-86 producing the CAC Avon Sabre that entered service in the late 1950s.

Cheers!



posted on Oct, 7 2004 @ 09:27 PM
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Oh yeah.

Loadofmoney Americans example.

At the start of the 1960s the USN were sold on a concept called DASH - Drone Anti Sub Helecopter. Before the concept was even proven the US committed hundreds of millions of dollars (billions today?) to both it, and the modernisation of dozens of WW2 Destroyers as ASW platforms under the FRAM II (Fleet Refurbishment And Modernisation Stage II) program.

By 1969 the program was terminated after more than 400 of some 700 odd machines had been lost, and the USN was stuck with dozens of upgraded WW2 destroyers, with no ASW platform and a hanger and flightdeck to small and light to handle manned helos like the SH-2.

Some of the destroyers were refitted with ASROC, while most were disposed of to third world navies. The Spruance were built around the idea of operating two capable manned ASW platforms.

Cheers



posted on Oct, 8 2004 @ 12:43 PM
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I've seen the CA-15 and was a beauty, its only flaw appears to be the fact that it appeared right at the dawn of the jet age, much like the Martin Baker MB5 and Supermarine Spiteful, I think the CA-15 resembled a cross between a Spiteful and a P-51.



posted on Oct, 9 2004 @ 12:28 PM
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Forgot to add yesterday; Yes, I remeber 'Must Refurbish Canberra Again'. Those RAF blokes have a bit of a way with words. I particularly like the nickname they gave the Gloster Javelin all weather fighter of the '50's & '60's, 'Harmonious Dragmaster'



posted on Oct, 9 2004 @ 12:47 PM
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My Uncle is in the RAF (still..even though he is an old bugger), and he used to fly the Vulcans.

I actually saw one at an airshow before they where grounded for good. i think it was maintained by an enthusiast (may be wrong, I was only about 8-10) and it was soon to be grounded for good.

Bloody loud things they where!!! Shame they got canned too!



posted on Oct, 9 2004 @ 01:05 PM
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Could've been our 'B-52' the Vulcan, especially recently. I was at the silver Jubilee Airshow at Finningley in 1977 and they had a Vulcan scramble with five or six aircraft. If you think one is loud! Bloody hell, you did't just hear them, you felt the noise right in your chest and stomach! Marvellous!



posted on Oct, 9 2004 @ 01:07 PM
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Could well have been my Uncle in 1977, about the time he was flying them. He is now in charge of the RAF hercules fleet... he was on BBC news once in East Timor, spouting some crap about how great we where for flying in 2 plane loads of food parcels or something....what a spiffing chap..



posted on Oct, 10 2004 @ 10:30 PM
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I was watching a DVD special edition of the Battle of Britain - the 1968 movie with Michael Caine and Sir Laurence Olivier.

It had an original making of doco with a young Michael Caine, plus a recent doco about the filming of aerial sequences and the "36th largest airforce in the world"

The aviation film unit guys were recollecting how they had struggled to assemble this air armada of Heinkels, Bucchons (109s), Spitfires and Hurricanes out of Duxford, when the local V Bomber base did a QRA scramble of their Vulcans.

He said neither group was aware of the other, until this stream eight Vulcans scattered the armada in every direction.

I'm imaging a lot of eyes screwed shut and cursing in English, Spanish and American (there were five Confederate Air Force Colonels who heard about the shoot and offerred thier four Bucchons and a Spitfire if they could fly them in the movie) as it it happened. The RAF were not amused, despite the flight plan.

Cheers



posted on Oct, 11 2004 @ 11:42 AM
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LOL I've seen that too! I like the bit where they are asking Americans on the street "What do you know about the Battle Of Britain?" Some of the answers were hilarious



posted on Oct, 11 2004 @ 05:28 PM
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What do they say? I have seen the film, but I am interested in the comments made by the Yanks.



posted on Oct, 11 2004 @ 05:57 PM
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Have you heard of P.O. Percy Prune RAF (Retarded), Bill (Raff) Hoopers funny creation used to illustrate "do nots" in the RAFs wartime "Tee Em" Pilots Training Manual newsletter?

My favourite is a cartoon of Prune being helped out of a badly battered Hurricane, undercarriage festooned with tree branches, a laundry line full of clothes and a cockrel weather vane embedded in the wing.

An apoletic Wing Commander is going ....."he says he couldn't have been flying low level because the altimetre was reading 500 feet!.....Does't the crapulous twit realise they all start at 500 feet!"



I instantly picked up a copy of a Battle of Britain 50th Anniversary 1990 edition history of Prune and notable Pruneries in the RAF when I visited the RAF Museum, Hendon in 1991...

If you know of him, do you have any favourite stories?



posted on Oct, 11 2004 @ 06:09 PM
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Re BoB doco, scene shot outside US Embassy London, 1968?

These are approximations as I remember them.

Young American secretary : it has something to do with the American War of Independence.
Young Brit Girl (smashing mini): the what?
American in a Business suit: it was a battle of great significance where we fought side by side against Nazism.
Old American secretary (with a horrible hive do'): I don't think we should be talking about things like that outside the embassy, security you know....I don't think she had a clue what the interviewer was talking about

It was about 20% knew what they were talking about, 40% were half way there, and 40% were right off the mark or had no idea whatsoever!

God knows what you'd get there today...probably arrested by MI5!



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by waynos
For the Brits only this. I've just seen an advert on Discovery for a new series on Discovery Wings from Oct 16th, Classic British Aircraft is presented by none other than Harry Enfield! I wonder if he'll do it in character?


"You don't wanna be building bombers with engines on sticks! You wanna be making big delta's with the engines in the roots!"*Roly Falk footage rolling the Vulcan at Farnborough*" Now, I do not believe you wanted to do that!"

Why do Americans always seem to follow their advanced projects through? "'Cos they've got LOADSAMONEY!!!"


Tim nice but dim "Er, ya, um when you hit this sound barrier thingy, wont it break or something? Huh?"

Seriously, I reckon it will be dead straight but very interesting, I'll be watching.

Sorry the rest of you who've read this without a clue what I'm on about, you were warned in advance


could you post a link to a website or something?



posted on Oct, 15 2004 @ 12:26 PM
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Here's one D iscovery Wings

BTW, its on the 19th, I made a mistake, sorry all.



posted on Oct, 16 2004 @ 05:23 AM
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Bloody loud things they where!!! Shame they got canned too!

The VULCAN!!!

i love this plane soooooo much!! I grew up with my parents house over looking RAF Woodford,when it was air show day the planes would circle over our house in the peak district and we would get our own personal air show!! (lucky bugger!) as they were waiting for their slot.
The first time i saw the Vulcan go vertical on full chat,i was virtually stood underneath it, i fell over,the sheer noise and splendour of watching this awesome aircraft just blew me away!! its given me goose bumps every time ive seen or heard it!!
Apparentley theres one being returned to flying status by a private organisation in the uk?
Very few aircraft have moved me like that 1 but others that rank are the LIGHTNING (YEEHAAA) The LANCASTER (Whos your daddy!) and watching the odd JAGUAR giving it the large in the lake district!!

Regards.

[edit on 16-10-2004 by optimus fett]




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