It's About Time. Germany Rules Religious Circumcision on Boys is Assault

Cut your lips off or be quiet. I don't want to trim nipples that are big because I choose to look at them

reply to post by Crakeur


So where do you draw the line? Can religions do anything they want to their kids, and it should be protected? My religion says chopping off the pinky finger of my infant will keep him free of demons. Is that ok to you?

reply to post by ColoradoJens


In the US many boys are circumcised and it has nothing at all to do with religion. All three of my sons are and my husband, my brother, and my father. We are not jewish.

reply to post by ColoradoJens


Cutting the entire vulva out of a woman and leaving only the opening of the vagina which is then sewn tight is quite different from removing a little foreskin from the penis.
Circumcision is no more multilation than ear piercing is. Its asthetics. Its cultural and for the most part harmless. Its even done without anesthesia.

I'll betcha dollars to donuts that Michealangelo wasn't circumcised, even though he was commissioned by the Catholic Church. I'll bet, even if he was, he resented the Jews for impinging their custom onto the greater community.

Look at what he did to David, not only did he depict David uncircumcised, but he gave the puniest manhood one could imagine!

frigginloon.wordpress.com...enis-uncircumcised/

I would post the pictures, but it might be against the T&C's to post one that tiny!

Originally posted by mayabong
reply to post by Crakeur

 

So where do you draw the line? Can religions do anything they want to their kids, and it should be protected? My religion says chopping off the pinky finger of my infant will keep him free of demons. Is that ok to you?

edit on 27-6-2012 by mayabong because: (no reason given)

Has it stood up to society's morals and religious conviction for THOUSANDS of years, in the face of political empires MUCH bigger and more powerful (at the time) than Germany is today?

It's JMO, but there may be some issues in which we have to worry about our own kids and not try to worry about everyone else's. If it was indeed a very traumatic molestation, could it be that 30% of the men worldwide are traumatized because of it? Or a nearly the whole nation over in Israel? (Ok, maybe I shouldn't ask that last one. lol)

Are a lot of men in therapy for it?
Personally, I've seen babies scream MORE from the standard heel stick as far as pain goes. I hated doing those - you really have to get a LOT of blood out of those little feet. BUT, babies don't like being strapped down - that was what they really hated, IMO - the little plastic forms that they put them in that spreads their little legs and arms out. They are often cold and babies like to be held tight, not splayed out.

There are a LOT of things that are done to babies that aren't exactly kind. The apgar test is rather abrupt at times. You gotta scare em good, first thing, to see if they jump just right, scrape their feet, ect. First thing out of the womb. Come to think of it, I bet birth isn't exactly a picnic.

Sometimes the road to Hades is paved with good intentions. I'm not arguing for or against really, just, hey, be careful driving down that road of prohibition on this particular thing. That's all. There's historically been a lot of deaths happen on this road.

My name is Hadriana, after all.
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

reply to post by Crakeur


Hi Crakeur, just a few points:

I didn't want to subject my 2 year old to the pain of laser removal which, I'm sure, would have made his fear of doctors even worse. hemangioma was 99.9% gone in 6 months. you'd never know he had it.

So you had a choice and made it. To be true to your religion (Jew or Muslim) there is no choice. It is dogma.

To those whining about my comparing earrings and a haircut to a circumcision, yes, it's different, no I didn't imply that an 8 day old gets either (although I've seen newborns with earrings). Just pointing out that these things are also done, without the consent of a child and can result in harm and, if you'll outlaw one, might as well outlaw them all.

So why make the compartison at all if acknowledged it is different? An ear piecing can heal over in time. Have you ever heard of a baby with a penis/clitoris piercing? I believe this would be punished under law in the states, but I have never heard of something so silly. Here in the states you need to be at an age of consent to get a tatoo. Hair grows back quickly and your taste in clothes is just that - yours, so no need to outlaw those.

what the country is doing is saying, you are free to practice religion but only to a degree and, in turn, they are putting jews and muslims in a position where, if they want to continue to practice their faith, and have a family, perhaps they should go elsewhere.

What the country is doing is saying, you are free to practice your religion, however, just like slavery, we have evolved enough to realize that this is a barbaric practice that does nothing other than permanantly brand someone for life. It is cruel and unnecessary. We do have laws protecting minors and we have them for a reason - to protect them. Perhaps it is time that religion changes, as it has over time, to agree and say, yeah, women used to be chattle and now aren't, trading slaves is not good business, and genital mutilation is as barbaric as it sounds and is. Again, simply because an immoral decree is made by a religion does not make it right. In a society with morals, we should work to acknowledge this rather than hiding behind some absurd code written thousands of years ago. Only because of religion is this an issue. No moral person without religion telling them to do this would. Why would it even enter their mind?

CJ

Originally posted by ColoradoJens
reply to post by charles1952

 

You are quite right this has been going on for millenia. It has been forced upon the unsuspecting and those with no voice as a "religious" practice. I again ask, who in their right mind would ever have dreamed up such a thing? Is it not sadistic and cruel to cut your genitals with a knife because "God told me so"? We have outlawed slavery you know.

CJ

Not only that but the practice used to be and still is in some orthodox sects that after the foreskin is removed the blood is then sucked away by the moyle. Babies first blow job. All in the name of god. Then they say oral sex is a sin. Sheesh.

Originally posted by karen61057
reply to post by ColoradoJens

 

Cutting the entire vulva out of a woman and leaving only the opening of the vagina which is then sewn tight is quite different from removing a little foreskin from the penis.
Circumcision is no more multilation than ear piercing is. Its asthetics. Its cultural and for the most part harmless. Its even done without anesthesia.

Genital mutilation is the act of cutting the genitals. By the very definition of the term circumcision is genital mutilation. I don't care how you want to spin it, you cannot rewrite the English language to suit your own purposes.

And you expose the fact that you know very little about the results of circumcision.

Please look into male biology and pay specific attention to the frenulum and inner side of the foreskin, both of which are removed in their majority if not in their entirety during circumcision. Then look through all the evidence as gathered by several research projects over the last thirty years about the loss of sensation, increased discomfort and complications regarding thickening of the sensitive tissue.

If you then come back and say that there is no problem with circumcision I'll gladly call you a liar, until then I'll just label you as being ignorant of the facts.

reply to post by ColoradoJens


If circumcision represses sex drive than I am glad my husband is circumcised. I cant imagine what he'd be like if he wasnt. As it is I get no sleep. (and we're married 30 years !)

Originally posted by karen61057
reply to post by ColoradoJens

 

Cutting the entire vulva out of a woman and leaving only the opening of the vagina which is then sewn tight is quite different from removing a little foreskin from the penis.
Circumcision is no more multilation than ear piercing is. Its asthetics. Its cultural and for the most part harmless. Its even done without anesthesia.

mu·ti·late
   [myoot-l-eyt]

verb (used with object), mu·ti·lat·ed, mu·ti·lat·ing.
1.
to injure, disfigure, or make imperfect by removing or irreparably damaging parts:

mutilate

Again, ear piercing is nothing at all like genital mutilation.

CJ

Originally posted by karen61057
reply to post by ColoradoJens

 

In the US many boys are circumcised and it has nothing at all to do with religion. All three of my sons are and my husband, my brother, and my father. We are not jewish.

Amazing isn't it? See how far outdated religious screed has seeped into mainstream society? And people wonder what atheists get so upset about.

CJ

How does anyone know what if feels like either way, unless you've been circumcised later in life there is no way of knowing it feels better. We can assume there is a difference but we can't say its significant unless its done later in life.

Im all for personal choice on this subject, but im glad It was done to me before the part of my brain developed that stores memories lol.




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Originally posted by karen61057
reply to post by ColoradoJens

 

If circumcision represses sex drive than I am glad my husband is circumcised. I cant imagine what he'd be like if he wasnt. As it is I get no sleep. (and we're married 30 years !)

I did say that and I was hasty - it should read circumcision lessens the pleasure of sexual intimacy. My bad.

CJ

Reply to post by ColoradoJens

Maybe he should of used mole removal?


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reply to post by thoughtsfull


I dont know. Most american boys are circumcised and whacking off is still a favorite past time of teenage boys.

reply to post by karen61057


And always will be. Imagine if they didn't have such a sensative part of their penis' removed. Religion likes it when you can't fully experience sexual gratification. It is their dogma.

CJ

Reply to post by ColoradoJens

"And always will be. Imagine if they didn't have such a sensative part of their penis' removed"

Umm, they would never leave they're rooms??? Lol


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reply to post by karen61057

Not only that but the practice used to be and still is in some orthodox sects that after the foreskin is removed the blood is then sucked away by the moyle. Babies first blow job. All in the name of god. Then they say oral sex is a sin. Sheesh.

Yep. And thank goodness for some basic western enlightenment thinking to say, "Huh? That's not acceptable."
Does anyone else wonder why religions are so intent on messing with babies private parts?

CJ

reply to post by ColoradoJens

religiuos orgs are always behind all attempts to legislate sexuality

merely a sneaky attempt to raise the # of german xtian, as opposed to immigrant, births

german woman marries uncircumcised man:

3 or 4 strokes and it's all over due to too much sensitivty
"whoops didn't get it out in time"
woman gets frustrated
so seeks more happy time

thus greater chances of getting pregnant
or winding up raising a litter of kids

the attempt to equate male circumcision with female clitorectomy, the removal of the clitoris,
[in some islamic countries its called the cutting of the rose and includes removal of the labia as well]
is not only a gross comparison of apples and rocks
it is an offense to all victims of female mutilation

an increase in STD's will no doubt fill the coffers of big pharma

if the german gov were really concerned they'd be imposing life sentences, without parole, on anybody who forced and practiced female genital mutilation

whether it was done in germany or the victim was sent out of the country to evade the law