Dr Hynek and the UFO Lawyer.

"We had case after case after case from military pilots that never hit the press"

Dr J Allen Hynek, Chairman of the Department of Astronomy at Northwestern University and scientific consultant for Air Force investigations of UFOs from 1948 until 1969

Originally posted here by Uforadio, this is a pretty fascinating video showing an interview with Dr Hynek and 'UFO Lawyer' Peter Gersten who sued the CIA and FBI over the release of 5000 UFO related government documents -he also brought lawsuits against such organisations as the NSA, DIA and FAA and is shown explaining his motives and results in the Tomorrow show with Tom Snyder around 0:40.

There's also discussion about the Tehran case and how already released documents completely contradict government claims that they have had 'no interest' in the UFO phenomenon since 1969..

From 1977 through 2000 attorney Peter Gersten, representing first Ground Saucer Watch (GSW) and then Citizens Against UFO Secrecy (CAUS), sued the CIA, NSA, Army, and the DoD for UFO related documents under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). This video is a compilation of his interviews over those 20+ years

Extra Link

Project Bluebook's Chief Scientist Dr J Allen Hynek also makes some interesting comments about how many military pilot UFO reports went unreported and discusses 'three incontrovertible points that even the grossest sceptic can't ignore' - one, that UFO reports not only exist but persist; two, that the phenomenon is global in nature (over 140 countries) and three, that many UFO reports come from highly credible and technically trained people.

For folks further interested in the subject, there's also a good presentation here with BlackVault's John Greenewald Junior although apparently when it comes to the release of specific Government UFO documents it seems the U.S. Supreme Court has arrived at a very simple conclusion:

In 1977 New York attorney Peter A. Gersten brought suit in the US District Court of the District of Columbia on behalf of Ground Saucer Watch, an Arizona based UFO organization. The lawsuit was against the Central Intelligence Agency pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act. Gersten demanded the release of classified UFO related documents. Pursuant to the lawsuit, the CIA in 1979 released over 900 pages of documents relating to the UFO phenomenon. But they refused to release 57 documents, claiming national security considerations.

On June 24,1980 Gersten brought suit in the same District Court against the National Security Agency but this time on behalf of his own recently formed organization, Citizens Against UFO Secrecy (CAUS). His objective was 135 UFO related documents the NCI had refused to release. On November 18, 1980, based upon a NSA top secret affidavit which Gersten was not allowed to see, US District Court Judge Gerhard A. Gesell dismissed the lawsuit stating that 'the continued need for secrecy far out weighed the public's right to know.'

link

Very good thread mate, if anyone was skeptical about the U.S. governments cover up on the subject of UFOs , then you shouldn't be after reading/watching this. And although we can only theorize on exactly what is being covered up, it's huge news imo.

Nice find once again, karl. Hynek is one of the people I always recommend to newcomers to the subject, and I find this to be particularly to the point:

Originally posted by karl 12

Project Bluebook's Chief Scientist Dr J Allen Hynek also makes some interesting comments about how many military pilot UFO reports went unreported and discusses 'three incontrovertible points that even the grossest sceptic can't ignore' - one, that UFO reports not only exist but persist; two, that the phenomenon is global in nature (over 140 countries) and three, that many UFO reports come from highly credible and technically trained people.

Throw in the fact that not only are reports made by highly credible and technically trained people all over the world, but that the reports also frequently resemble each other in specific aspects of their content, and you definitely have something worth looking into.

Very nice video. Thanks.
S&F.
Like everyone else, he apparently didn't think of filing an FOIA request for the FAA radar data in the Phoenix Lights case.
LIkewise, debunkers apparently didn't think of asking if the F-94s had their lights on in the Montana film case.
Hindsight.

Thanks for the replies and Peter Gersten certainly brings up some interesting points about government UFO documents in the interview -his description of the 1976 Tehran incident is also pretty compelling.

There's a 'Citizens Against UFO Secrecy' newsletter below which goes into more detail about the subject and also mentions official U.S. State Department documents describing UFO incidents in Morocco on the same day as the Tehran case..

A copy of an undated NICAP UFO Investigator was included with CAUS·Kay 8th appeal. The lead article of the Investigator, entitled "UFOs Force Government Action," indicates NICAP had access to the three documents CAUS is seeking.

The article quotes extensively from State Department documents describing UFO incidents in Morocco on the same evening (morning) as the now-famous Iranian incident, September 20.' 1976.

The NICAP publication also refers to a message sent by Henry Kissinger, then Secretary of State, to the Moroccan government in response to their query

PDF File

Dr Hynek and Peter Gersten also pop up quite a bit in the full length 'UFO Experience' from 1982 and the film's well worth a watch if anyone hasn't seen it.

In 1983 Ron Lakis, on behalf of KPIX TV in San Francisco, produced 'The UFO Experience' which, almost 30 years later, still contains some of the best evidence on the subject. J. Allen Hynek, Peter A Gersten, Richard Haines, Bruce Maccabee, Tom Page, and John Scheussler are featured.

Originally posted by Orkojoker

Hynek is one of the people I always recommend to newcomers to the subject..

Couldn't agree more about Dr Hynek mate - his books on the UFO subject are truly great and although he made quite a few important statements in his time, I think this one sums the situation up best.

"For the government to continue to maintain that UFOs are nonexistent in the face of the documents already released and of other cogent evidence presented in this book is puerile and in a sense an insult to the American people."

Dr. J. Allen Hynek, Scientific Advisor to Project Bluebook from 1952-1969

Cheers.

More on the Tehran case government documents from Michael D. Swords including an inclusion in the NSA's intelligence magazine from Major Henry Shields:

The Air Force Admits Again That UFOs Are Real and Nobody's Listening.

Full image

This report leaked through Iranian Air Force sources, or we'd probably never have gotten it. Once "out" however, the retrieval of documents by FOIA or other requests [for instance through Congressmen] gets a little more likely. Ultimately the DIA/NSA decided to release the documents which confirmed everything. In those documents were phrases like "outstanding report", "case is a classic", "meets all the criteria for a valid study of the UFO phenomenon"...I kid you not.

The document on the right was an added surprise. The NSA had given the case reports to one of their operatives [also an Air Force officer] to include in the classified "Secret" intelligence magazine, MIJI Quarterly. They apparently had decided that cases like this needed to be known by operatives in the field who were charged with dealing with problems of "electronic countermeasures" such as jamming, signal confusion, instrument interference, etc. Captain Shields tells the whole tale. But what is of greater interest is the casual admission written just below the title: "Sometime in his career, each pilot can expect to encounter strange, unusual happenings which will never be adequately or entirely explained by logic or subsequent investigation.

link

Fantastic thread! Thank you for bringing it out.

I am just watching the hour long link and will get back to you, but wanted to say that Air Traffic controllers used to get sent away for a month or more if they even tried to make anything onto a report at shifts end.

When they returned they were totally washed out and mind bent. they no longer wanted to report anything ever again.

reply to post by karl 12


That's a great documentary, karl. Loved the first-hand Cash-Landrum and young Bruce Maccabee segments. Thanks for bringing this to the table!

Originally posted by antar

I am just watching the hour long link and will get back to you, but wanted to say that Air Traffic controllers used to get sent away for a month or more if they even tried to make anything onto a report at shifts end.

When they returned they were totally washed out and mind bent. they no longer wanted to report anything ever again.

Antar, thanks for the reply mate and I can well imagine the reluctance of some air traffic controllers when it comes to submitting UFO reports - there's a discussion going on about pilots over on this thread and it seems there's also an 'under reporting bias' going on within the pilot community with many aviation professionals reticent to report their experiences due to fear of ridicule, damage to reputation, potential unemployment etc..

Here's a case where air traffic controllers did back up a pilot UFO report though - I don't think they were ever penalised and the incident is all the more interesting because the three mystery objects were plotted on radar 'executing sharp manoeuvers' near the aircraft:

UFOs 'Escort' Mexican Aircraft - Radar Confirmed

Cheers.

Originally posted by Orkojoker

That's a great documentary, karl. Loved the first-hand Cash-Landrum and young Bruce Maccabee segments. Thanks for bringing this to the table!

Hey mate, we've got ATS Member CardDown to thank for the posting of the full length documentary, he/she contacted Peter Gersten who made it available on Youtube (so hats off to them!)

There's also this rare full length version of the 1985 HBO documentary 'UFOs: What's Going On?'.

link

Cheers.

reply to post by karl 12


I will check out the link, however if they let it go public it will probably get debunked in the future... You know what I mean? Lol!

I am also interested in reading the link about the pilots, sounds like it could be good.

Originally posted by antar

I will check out the link, however if they let it go public it will probably get debunked in the future... You know what I mean? Lol!

Hey mate, I know what you mean although I don't think the Lake Tequesquitengo case has ever been properly debunked (and in my experience many 'debunkers' shy away from the truly interesting cases.. or pretend they don't exist) but there seems to be quite a few incidents like this Mexican case of 'disc shaped' objects being reported flying dangerously close to aircraft - below is another radar/visual case from England in 1952 and the pilots in the interview do sound pretty freaked out.

See 13:55.

Cheers.

Originally posted by Orkojoker

Nice find once again, karl. Hynek is one of the people I always recommend to newcomers to the subject..

Absolutely mate and great job on this thread.

UFO Audio Documentary with Dr. J. Allen Hynek (1978)

Good pdf copy of the NICAP UFO Investigator where Dr J. Allen Hynek discusses patterns in UFO reports and calls for an end to the ridicule of UFO witnesses - he also talks about the 'provincialism' displayed by the mainstream scientific community and lists seven popular misconceptions about the UFO phenomenon:

HYNEK HITS UFO INVESTIGATION, CONFIRMS EVIDENCE

Pressure Mounting To End Debunking

PDF File

Relevant news article sourced by Realtvufos about CAUS's legal action against the U.S. Government - also mentioned is the Loring Air Force Base UFO incident where military witnesses saw a strange, football shaped, reddish/orange object 'about three to four car lengths long' hovering over the ammunition dump there before suddenly vanishing and then reappearing at the end of the runway:

“UFO Watchers Mount Legal Drive To Get U.S. Files”,

6 November 1981 (Sarasota Herald-Tribune, Florida)

News article

New video links:


'The UFO Experience':





British pilots - radar/visual disc, 1952:

See 4:30

New video link - 'The UFO Experience'