Prove The Existence Of Any Religious Entity

Disprove The Existence Of Any Religious Entity.

Originally posted by denver22
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

How do you explain viruses bacteria etc..

Your question reminds me of all the threads that were started on ATS relating to Mitochondria.

Mitochondria have many features in common with prokaryotes. As a result, they are thought to be originally derived from endosymbiotic prokaryotes.

.....The circular structure is also found in prokaryotes, and the similarity is extended by the fact that mitochondrial DNA is organized with a variant genetic code similar to that of Proteobacteria. This suggests that their ancestor, the so-called proto-mitochondrion, was a member of the Proteobacteria. In particular, the proto-mitochondrion was probably closely related to the rickettsia. However, the exact relationship of the ancestor of mitochondria to the alpha-proteobacteria and whether the mitochondria was formed at the same time or after the nucleus, remains controversial.

en.wikipedia.org...

After doing some research on the above, where did it lead me? To this:

SOIL LIFE.

If you scroll down to the "Soil Life Table" you'll see what I'm talking about.

en.wikipedia.org...

So, in conclusion, what does the Bible say about how man was created?

Genesis 2:7

7) And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

So, if it wasn't God who told man where they came from, how would they have known this thousands of years ago? Think about it for a moment. Considering that man has authority over the earth, don't you think that if a man had to come up with his own creation story that they might have come up with something a little more glamorous than claiming to come from dirt??

Originally posted by kissy princess
Hello,

Your initial attack is with Theism, or the belief in a prime-creator. To be very clear, this being need not be the deity of Abrahamic sects, nor of ANY religion, and may also include the property as the 'source' of all life and consciousness in the universe, without having a specific location in space, or time - let me explain.

Theism proposes that such a being must fulfill two criterion. First, this being must be what is known as an 'independent' being, i.e., that the creation and continued survival of such a being isn't dependent upon anything else. This quality demands that such a character wasn't dependent upon another for its creation, but is what is known as a casua sui, (unlike all other life known to exist). Second, this being is also known as a 'necessary being,' which is a character whose non-existence is an impossibility.

To the point: since all existent things are dependent upon something else for their existence, there must be a fundamental and necessary prima causa that got the ball rolling, so to speak.

If this is confusing, we may take a more well known analogy from modern science; thus, everything in the universe must have a cause, and currently, what is referred to as the 'big-bang' fulfills the criteria for this 'first cause.' All fine and well, yes? The issue that separates Theists from Atheists, in the strictly philosophical sense, is that the Theist believes that something conscious animated, and initiated the Big-Bang, whereas the Atheist does not (and further, cannot logically account for how exactly the material of which composed the Big-Bang was made manifest; thus, the burden of proof is upon the Atheist to account for how this is possible without committing an infinite regress. You probably notice that the underlying mechanics of this debate is philosophical, and not necessarily a question that can be solved by science.
On this point, I ask you not to bitch about philosophy not being the right tool to use to answer questions about the universe (OMG lolz), as it was this particular discipline that gave birth to science, and in particular, Atomic and Quantum Theory.

Anyway, such a conclusion (that there exists a source of consciousness that has no location in space or time, that at very least, created the conditions which gave birth to the big-bang), demands nothing further from the one it persuades (e.g., beliefs about abortion, gun-control, hand-jobs, gay-marriage, terrorism, tolerance, KISS's disco record, etc). You may attack religion all you want, but if your qualm is HOW and WHY it is reasonable for some people to hold Theistic beliefs while others hold Atheistic beliefs, then you need to throw out scripture, and start studying philosophy - but you will find no knock-out arguments for either Atheism or Theism, for that matter.

So, if you want proof, there are a variety of philosophical arguments (and their 'proofs') for the existence of a creator-being - however, you must make your objection to the premises, and not simply rely on an account or criticism with various scriptures and dusty old tomes (or your short-fused emotions, for that matter).

Here's the argument given above:
I. Everything that has a beginning of its existence has a cause of its existence.
II. The universe has a beginning of its existence.
III. The universe has a cause of its existence.
IV. If the universe has a cause of its existence then that cause is a supreme creator.

Therefore:
V. A supreme creator exists.

You may raise the question, 'Wouldn't a supreme creator also have a beginning of existence, and thus untangle the argument?' This puzzle is solved by the explanation of the casua sui given above. A being that is independent fulfills the criteria necessary for this argument to work (again, She may exist outside of time and space, if she desires).



No star, no flag, no kisses.

I fully admit I am and was in the wrong for my attack, I only posted this out of constant frustration, I admit entirely I channeled incorrectly, and bit off way more than I could chew. I apologize genuinely to anyone I have offended with my bogus and ridiculous statements about everything I have said.

It was not my goal to aggravate people, and ultimately I should have placed this in the rant section and narrowed it down a bit. I truly feel remorse for my hideously inaccurate statements, and if possible, would like to rectify this by indicating my truest and heartfelt apologies for anyone who I angered or wasted their time.

Originally posted by Murgatroid

Originally posted by grahag
Science isn't against God, because if they found that there is/was some supreme being that is controlling everything, they'll gladly update to the new view.

If ATS had an award for the most out of touch post, yours would have clearly been nominated.

You have COMPLETELY bought the lies that TPTB have been dishing out.

When I read this:

"Science isn't against God"

All I could think was "Did he really just SAY that?"

Science has KNOWN there is a "Supreme Being" since the beginning of time. This is why they created all of those cults and false religions to distract you from reality and the truth.

If science were to go on the record tomorrow and say that Leeloo was the real "Supreme Being", somehow I believe that you would actually BELIEVE it.

Your post does confirm the fact that the elite have succeeded beyond their wildest imaginations at brainwashing the world.

"We will know that we have succeeded when everything the public believes is false" - William J. Casey (OSS/CIA operative & Director)

BTW your sig screams out: "I have NO credibility!"

Maybe I am uneducated, but can you show me where science has proven the existence of a God? I'm 43 and I've never seen any proof of a God that can be proven through science. The only thing that science knows are the facts. What is observable and repeatable through experiments and processes of observation. Knowing something exists is much different than FEELING or even believing something exists.

And you've insulted me numerous times, but I'm not sure you've qualified your insults with reasons. WHY is my post out of touch? WHY can't you believe what I just said? WHY don't I have credibility because of my signature? Does my lack of a belief in a God mean I'm brainwashed? What about everyone who might believe in a different God? Are THEY brainwashed too?

Eagerly awaiting your reply...

Originally posted by AdamsMurmur

Originally posted by grahag

Science isn't against God, because if they found that there is/was some supreme being that is controlling everything, they'll gladly update to the new view. Whereas religion falls apart if it's proven that there is no God or that religion is based on fraudulent information. Science has no ego. Religion is ALL ego.

edit on 26-6-2012 by grahag because: For grammar

Buddhism would like to have a word with you... It pretty much trumps this entire quote.

Coincidentally, self-liberation is one of it's central teachings.

But really, the audacity of your post. It's truly shameful.

Buddhism is one of those religions that's barely a religion. It's more of a philosophy. The Buddha is worshiped, not as a savior, but more as a teacher. They still adhere to some tenets of religion like a heaven (Nirvana), rebirth (Reincarnation), and Karma (the golden rule). There are a number of other "religions" which are similar, but Buddhism is the largest group by far.

By and large, I have no problem with Buddhism. They're more likely to walk the way they talk. But because they have followers, doesn't make the deity any more real.

I'm sorry you felt that my post was too bold, but as a deity, Buddha (Siddartha) is just as absent from the table of deities as any of the others.

Originally posted by AwakeinNM
Disprove The Existence Of Any Religious Entity.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

It's the burden of God to prove he exists.

This quote from Epicurus is my favorite and made me actually question whether there is a God when I was in my teens.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"

1 God exists.
2 God is omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good.
3 A perfectly good being would want to prevent all evils.
4 An omniscient being knows every way in which evils can come into existence.
5 An omnipotent being, who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, has the power
to prevent that evil from coming into existence.
6 A being who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, who is able to prevent that evil
from coming into existence, and who wants to do so, would prevent the existence of that evil.
7 If there exists an omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good being, then no evil exists.
8 Evil exists (logical contradiction).

"The bottom line is, I am lamenting because our species should be a lot further along scientifically and technologically. But because of bible pushers and people blocking progress, we are still wallowing in insanity and fanaticism over expired ideals and belief systems."

Amen ... This is exactly my gripe with religion. If it didn't hold mankind back and affect me then I wouldn't care.

I think most atheist try to show religious people an alternative view because they care.

Most religious people who have their faith questioned say "why do you care" ... well if you were walking by and see someone banging their head on the wall, wouldn't you stop and try to help them out?

I know I care about my fellow man and the negative impact that all religion has on us as a whole. It really does affect everyone in some form or fashion.

reply to post by grahag

Originally posted by grahag
Maybe I am uneducated, but can you show me where science has proven the existence of a God? I'm 43 and I've never seen any proof of a God that can be proven through science. The only thing that science knows are the facts. What is observable and repeatable through experiments and processes of observation. Knowing something exists is much different than FEELING or even believing something exists.

And you've insulted me numerous times, but I'm not sure you've qualified your insults with reasons. WHY is my post out of touch? WHY can't you believe what I just said? WHY don't I have credibility because of my signature? Does my lack of a belief in a God mean I'm brainwashed? What about everyone who might believe in a different God? Are THEY brainwashed too?

I'm going to steal a little thunder from the OP here and like he said so profoundly, it was absolutely NOT my goal to insult and I too feel remorse for insulting another poster. With that said a SINCERE apology is in order and that is truly what I feel from the heart.

I always HATE it when someone insults me on ATS so I try to live by the "do unto others..." thing. I seem to fail at it too many times it seems. I would love to hear any feedback on HOW communicate here WITHOUT insulting others. Perhaps there is a thread somewhere on that...

Does my lack of a belief in a God mean I'm brainwashed?

Absolutely, FACT. There is NO question about it. Whether or not I can convince you of that fact is ONE thing. But I KNOW what I am talking about which is WHY I wrote the post.

What about everyone who might believe in a different God? Are THEY brainwashed too?

Again, NO question about it... Religion is the most POWERFUL mind control tool in History.

can you show me where science has proven the existence of a God?
I've never seen any proof of a God that can be proven through science.

Of course not. Science will NEVER prove the existence of a God because they are under complete control of the TPTB who HATE God and actually crucified His Son.

The only thing that science knows are the facts.

Sure science KNOWS the facts, but they will never let YOU know the facts. Like I said, they are under complete control of the worlds satanic leaders.

WHY is my post out of touch? WHY can't you believe what I just said?

Because I know the truth.

WHY don't I have credibility because of my signature?

See MY sig for the answer to that...

Originally posted by Covertblack
reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep

 

Some can't believe in something greater than themselves.....

And some need a being bigger than themselves, because they have been taught and conditioned that they are slaves to a Lord and Master, and without this Lord, they cannot stand on their own. Oh, and some need a scapegoat to blame their transgressions on too.

Originally posted by DragonRain311
Alright folks, a lot of you are going to tear me apart, but it has become too much to bear to the point where this must be released from my mind. I would like to start off by saying with regards to this matter, that I have read the bible, Qur'an, and the Mormon bible, so ultimately I read before I criticize, and after I have put the books down and analyzed what I had read, I laughed uncontrollably because I cannot understand why people choose to believe in such absurd stories to validate their own existences, to raise a family under and so forth.

People, wake up. We are in the 21st century and nothing, I repeat NOTHING proves the existence of any deity beyond the realm of the literature you read about them in. The idea that some human beings are so completely narrow minded that they hurt other people in the name of their religion and their flying spaghetti monster, all to prove whose religion is best, is counter-productive at best.If Jesus in the way he is described actually existed, then the man would be appalled at the behavior of modern human civilization.

Why do people justify the deaths and murders and slaughter of innocent human beings and animals over such absurd concepts? Has anyone realized that if extra terrestrial life does in fact exist, they would be laughing all the way to their home planet because to believe in something that does not exist, probably never did and to kill for it repeatedly and use the deity as a justification for doing so, have rendered the human race completely isolated and helpless in the event of a massive event that would require extra terrestrial intervention if ETs exist.

Why can't people just wake up in the morning and realize there is no one right answer, there is no magic sky genie that is going to take all of your problems away just through beliefs. Oh yeah, and your dead grandmother who believed in Jesus all her life, is it going to make you feel better that you believe she has gone to heaven when in reality, she is rotting in the ground being devoured by all sorts of insect life?

It is not my goal to aggravate people, though I know for a fact I am going to get some flack for this, I welcome it. There are five steps to enjoying life healthily, and happily without fear, guilt, or repentance.

1. Put the fork down

2. Go outside and exercise with friends or by yourself

3. Trade your television set for a high energy dog

4. Adopt a diet that has more fruits and vegetables

5. Put down the bible and think for yourself

I welcome any and all arguments or debates, or simple people lashing out because they cannot come to grips with what they do not understand.

Quotes like this are why I love The Holy Qur'an. A warning to mankind. =)


I've been around ATS before ( about 2 years ago ). Not sure why but one day I tried logging into my account and I couldn't so I just said screw it and moved on. Anyway, I think after I hit the 20 post mark I'll post my story again that deals with God ( Allah ) and Fox News baby! =) Then I'll get me a ton of hate and doubt but it's all good... kind of tickles me actually. =) It sure is nice knowing that there really is a God and even better knowing that MY God is Allah... =)

Anyway, here you go...


Surah 2: Al Baqarah


89. And when there comes to them a Book from Allah, confirming What is with them- although From of old they had prayed For victory against those Without Faith- when there comes To them that which they ( Should ) have recognized. They refuse to believe in it But the curse of Allah Is on those without Faith.

90. Miserable is the price For which they have sold Their souls, in that they Deny ( the revelation ) Which Allah has sent down, In insolent envy that Allah Of His Grace should send it To any of His servants He pleases: Thus have they drawn On themselves Wrath upon Wrath, And humiliating is the punishment Of those who reject Faith.


~ Illuminati Chit ~

The " insolent envy that Allah Of His Grace should send it To any of His servants He pleases " - totally reminds me of, well, me and my story. =)))


Anyway

So, like, OMG, I love Gretchen Carlson! ~ Hips and Thighs, Oh My, Stay Focused... ~

And I so love Megyn Kelly but honestly think she loves me more than I love her... IF that made sense! hahahah... xoxo

Originally posted by Awful

Originally posted by DragonRain311
Alright folks, a lot of you are going to tear me apart, but it has become too much to bear to the point where this must be released from my mind. I would like to start off by saying with regards to this matter, that I have read the bible, Qur'an, and the Mormon bible, so ultimately I read before I criticize, and after I have put the books down and analyzed what I had read, I laughed uncontrollably because I cannot understand why people choose to believe in such absurd stories to validate their own existences, to raise a family under and so forth.

People, wake up. We are in the 21st century and nothing, I repeat NOTHING proves the existence of any deity beyond the realm of the literature you read about them in. The idea that some human beings are so completely narrow minded that they hurt other people in the name of their religion and their flying spaghetti monster, all to prove whose religion is best, is counter-productive at best.If Jesus in the way he is described actually existed, then the man would be appalled at the behavior of modern human civilization.

Why do people justify the deaths and murders and slaughter of innocent human beings and animals over such absurd concepts? Has anyone realized that if extra terrestrial life does in fact exist, they would be laughing all the way to their home planet because to believe in something that does not exist, probably never did and to kill for it repeatedly and use the deity as a justification for doing so, have rendered the human race completely isolated and helpless in the event of a massive event that would require extra terrestrial intervention if ETs exist.

Why can't people just wake up in the morning and realize there is no one right answer, there is no magic sky genie that is going to take all of your problems away just through beliefs. Oh yeah, and your dead grandmother who believed in Jesus all her life, is it going to make you feel better that you believe she has gone to heaven when in reality, she is rotting in the ground being devoured by all sorts of insect life?

It is not my goal to aggravate people, though I know for a fact I am going to get some flack for this, I welcome it. There are five steps to enjoying life healthily, and happily without fear, guilt, or repentance.

1. Put the fork down

2. Go outside and exercise with friends or by yourself

3. Trade your television set for a high energy dog

4. Adopt a diet that has more fruits and vegetables

5. Put down the bible and think for yourself

I welcome any and all arguments or debates, or simple people lashing out because they cannot come to grips with what they do not understand.

Quotes like this are why I love The Holy Qur'an. A warning to mankind. =)


I've been around ATS before ( about 2 years ago ). Not sure why but one day I tried logging into my account and I couldn't so I just said screw it and moved on. Anyway, I think after I hit the 20 post mark I'll post my story again that deals with God ( Allah ) and Fox News baby! =) Then I'll get me a ton of hate and doubt but it's all good... kind of tickles me actually. =) It sure is nice knowing that there really is a God and even better knowing that MY God is Allah... =)

Anyway, here you go...


Surah 2: Al Baqarah


89. And when there comes to them a Book from Allah, confirming What is with them- although From of old they had prayed For victory against those Without Faith- when there comes To them that which they ( Should ) have recognized. They refuse to believe in it But the curse of Allah Is on those without Faith.

90. Miserable is the price For which they have sold Their souls, in that they Deny ( the revelation ) Which Allah has sent down, In insolent envy that Allah Of His Grace should send it To any of His servants He pleases: Thus have they drawn On themselves Wrath upon Wrath, And humiliating is the punishment Of those who reject Faith.


~ Illuminati Chit ~

The " insolent envy that Allah Of His Grace should send it To any of His servants He pleases " - totally reminds me of, well, me and my story. =)))


Anyway

So, like, OMG, I love Gretchen Carlson! ~ Hips and Thighs, Oh My, Stay Focused... ~

And I so love Megyn Kelly but honestly think she loves me more than I love her... IF that made sense! hahahah... xoxo

I hope that's not a tattoo on your neck. I may be wrong but doesn't Islam frown on tattoos?

reply to post by Murgatroid


So... Because I believe differently than you, I don't have credibility and I'm brainwashed. And you still didn't give an explanation as to WHY...

WHY is what drives me. I can tell you WHY I think what I think, but I can't tell you WHY you think what you think. If you can tell me why you think that I'm brainwashed and lack credibility, that would be awesome.