An Honest Days Pay for an Honest Days Work?

So who determines what an honest days pay is? Who determines what an honest days work is?

The politicians? I think we all know how honest they are.

The rich? One cannot become rich with honesty, the "system" demands that one tell lie upon lie in order to make it to the top. That's no secret.

The average voting citizen? In my experience the VAST majority of people are completely and utterly dishonest. Nice guys finish last in this conjured civilization of ours.

So why should I trust any of these utterly dishonest people to tell me what an honest days pay is or what an honest days work is? These people here, in this world of ours, dishonesty is their first inclination. Most of them don't even know how to be honest. They're scared to death of being honest because all they know is that in their past experience honesty has only brought them punishment from their peers.

What they say: "Do these pants make my butt look big?" What they mean: "If these pants make my butt look big you had better lie, otherwise I will reign down the fires of hell upon you."

What they say: "Why do you want this job?" What they mean: "If your answer is money or survival or sustenance you had better lie otherwise I will make sure you starve in the streets."

I do not trust you. All the emperors of this world, all 7 billion of you are walking around buck naked, but you sure as hell don't want to know the truth of that matter. Fools, every one of them.

Edit: Lets get this one out of the way 'cause I know it's coming. Does the "law" of supply and demand determine what an honest days pay and work is? You know the "law" of supply and demand was around during slavery, did the slaves perform an honest days work? Did the slaves receive an honest days pay? The "law" of supply and demand obviously does not make such a determination.

reply to post by Symbiot

I do not trust you. All the emperors of this world, all 7 billion of you are walking around buck naked, but you sure as hell don't want to know the truth of that matter. Fools, every one of them.

- Symbiot

That is an awesome quote man.



Durdenesque.

reply to post by Symbiot

Not exactly the law of supply and demand, but the collective labor law does.

Where I live, worker representatives, employer associations and the state all together in a close partnership have proven to do an excelent job determining a "honest days pay".

reply to post by Symbiot


I, determine what a honest days pay for an honest days work is for myself.

If I feel the pay isn't worth it, then I won't do the job. It's that simple.

But there are times that I will work for free, because I feel that it is worth my time.

reply to post by TDawgRex


Generally deciding for yourself if something is worth doing is a wonderful idea. Is the payoff worth it, will your reward be worth the price. Is the end result worth the blood and sweat? Your decision!!!! Yes.

However; today we have a problem where many if not all people are not able to make this decision for themselves, maybe occasionally they have the opportunity to make that call, but let's say you are born poor. Your options are extremely limited. You are left with robbing a bank, slaving for the bitchiest of customers or starving to death. Those are your options.

Society as a whole does their best to make sure that decision belongs to the masses and not the individual. Perhaps you decide something is worth doing, probably even get some enjoyment out of doing it, after all a job well done is one helluva reward in my opinion. What if society as a whole disagrees with you? You will have worked and worked, your blood and sweat poured into something and lord knows you accomplished your goal with great success, but society doesn't want it, you receive no money, you are refused food, refused shelter, refused friendship, refused, denied, beaten. That decision belongs to you, but it has been stolen from you. You are not free to make such a decision for the masses will judge you and deceive you and belittle you and jail you and hunt you down and kill you unless you make the choice they want you to make.

You have a wonderful idea there, do what you choose to do, as an individual. Problem is that there are more of them than there are of you, they will abuse that power to force you into their work camps. They will abuse that power to ensure you work for them, not yourself. They will abuse that power to ensure they can yell and scream, call you names and beat you emotionally, all you can do is smile and say "Thank you sir, may I have another lashing?"

P.S. I apologize if I double post, my connection is sporadic right now.

reply to post by ColCurious


I think I already touched on "collective" laws. The people that make up this "collective" are dishonest, they fear honesty, they cannot tell you individually or collective what an honest days work is or what an honest days labor is. They lack the capability to speak the truth.

reply to post by Germanicus


Why thank you. From the moment I first heard of The Emperor's New Clothes I understood immediately the moral of the story. I see full well that so many beg for their own ignorance and ask for their own whipping via their own tyranny. Tyrants reign down hell, upon themselves.

Edit: One need not be a literal emperor in order to be a tyrant. So many reign as tyrants merely as friends and family.


Edit: I should put "friends" in quotes, for are they your friends if they would see you starved for disobeying their belief structure? Would your friends gladly watch as you starve for disobeying the rules of their beloved tyrannical governments? Would your friends see you exiled for telling them the truth... The truth about anything at all? Would your friends throw you behind bars for breaking someone else's law? They do you know, they hold that threat over your head. They pay the salaries of the hired thugs, law enforcement, they are the employers. If you find yourself behind bars because you disagree, it is the employers who put you there. They bought the jail house with their taxes and paid the thugs to put you there. Are they your friends?



And if you should find yourself in hard times, unable to pay rent, foreclosed upon. Who kicks in the door and throws you onto the street? Is it the police or those who employ them? Would the police kick in the door if your "friends" were not paying them to do it? Are you paying their salaries too? Are your own employees killing you?

Originally posted by ColCurious
reply to post by Symbiot

 

Not exactly the law of supply and demand, but the collective labor law does.

Where I live, worker representatives, employer associations and the state all together in a close partnership have proven to do an excelent job determining a "honest days pay".

edit on 24-6-2012 by ColCurious because: (no reason given)

Have fun when you never get ahead because the honest days pay have become less and inflation have made everything more expensive. You might enjoy the ride now, but the freeride will hopefully be over soon for US as a whole.

The one trait that stands out in all of us is, "Whats in it for ME !" " How can I profit ?"
It is the way of thinking, Now, from the top of the pay scale to the botton.
There is no trust, honesty or respect only contempt , lothing, greed and jealousy.

Originally posted by Symbiot
reply to post by ColCurious

 

I think I already touched on "collective" laws. The people that make up this "collective" are dishonest, they fear honesty, they cannot tell you individually or collective what an honest days work is or what an honest days labor is. They lack the capability to speak the truth.

Maybe you're right and each of these bodies for themselves would act dishonest.
That's why our constitution forces all three of them to counterbalance each other / keep each other in check, as it is enshrined in the institutionalized settlement of conflicts.

Now that I think about it, I agree with TDawgRex's statement.
Only the workers/employees can ultimately determine what a honest days pay is for them... our workforce just happenes to be satisfied with the appraisement of our system.

reply to post by OLD HIPPY DUDE


You, sir, have an excellent point there.

A system where we try to quantify the contributions of others by placing a monetary value upon their heads:
What's in it for you or I?

Massive unbalance of power where those holding the majority of the worlds wealth reign down terror from above and those with little or nothing reign up terror from below. Those with everything were duped into thinking that was their goal in life, greed. What did they find at the end of their journey to riches? Depression? Cheating gold digger wives? Fear enough to hire hundreds or thousands of security guards to keep the people they cheated from exacting revenge? Fear enough to have 10 heart attacks?

And those at the bottom who support this system of greed with their work and taxes, what's in it for them? Slaving for never satisfied customers? The constant fear of not being able to make ends meet? Drugs and alcohol just to drown out the pain for a moment or two? Obeying the orders of a snot nosed pimple faced supervisor that actually has no idea how to solve the problems faced by his "underlings" to save his life? Dying at the ripe old age of 53 because you've worked 3 jobs your whole life and have literally nothing to show for it?


A system of sharing where no one is quantified and everyone owns everything:
What's in it for you or I?

Everything. If there is only one computer and two people then they both have a computer, they share it. Otherwise one has a computer and the other will continually try to steal it. Wives that love you for who you are because there's no such thing as money, everything is shared. No fear for no matter what happens you have 7 billion friends willing to help you out. The reward for a job well done is not only a job well done, but the continued success of your peers, which you shared with, which in turn gives them the ability to perform well done jobs which then reward you with continued success because they shared the benefits of their labor with you too.

No depression, you always have something to bring you enjoyment for you have billions of friends instead of billions of dollars and billions of angry cheated "customers." Drug abuse drops to nothing, there's no pain to drown out because you have billions of friends and nothing to fear for if you fall they will catch you. Remember you've been sharing with others, they like you because you help them out and you like them because they help you out.

So really what is in it for us? Today you might receive a monetary reward, but what good is money with your friends starving in the streets? I know it's no good because it's only use is to purchase anti-depressants, drugs and alcohol to make the pain go away. The pain that bottomless void brings, the void that cannot be filled with money or things, but only your brethren who you've left to die. Which reward do you want?


P.S. Jealousy can lead to anger which can lead to all sorts of undesirable results. Why are people jealous? Do they feel as though they should be someone else? Do they feel as though they or we would be better off if they were someone else? Why do they feel that way? Are we telling them they're worthless because the value placed upon their heads is far lower than the value placed upon the heads of others? Many times this jealousy turns to hatred and this hatred turns to violence. The undervalued will exact their revenge, fear them for they will torture you, they will steal from you, they will haunt your dreams, they will force you to live in fear. Why are they so jealous? Did we bring this fear upon ourselves, did we falsely accuse people of being worthless bringing them the anger which strikes fear into the hearts of others?



P.P.S. Giving it my all... I know someone that was falsely convicted of a crime he didn't commit. I'm not talking about myself either.

reply to post by Symbiot


Maybe society as a whole needs to in a Paratroopers term, "pull their head out of their fourth point of contact". To translate; pull their collective heads out of their ass.

I have entered into every contract with my eyes wide open, never did I expect more out off a employer than what was stated in the contract for employment.

If they reneged on that contract, I quit. If I was no longer happy working for that employer, I quit.

It's as simple as that.

People need to stop looking at employers as the source of all their problems...maybe they, as the employee are the problem with to high expectations. Maybe, just maybe, they really aren't as good at their job than they think.

If a person wants a decent paying job, they had best market themselves correctly. I'm a high school drop-out (though I did continue school), no criminal record and have had multiple jobs...most of which I have done well in. I retired at 48 years of age. I'm not living large, but am quite comfortable and work a part time job (30+ hours weekly) to make ends meet.

When I say "To make ends meet." I mean beer and gas money. And the job keeps me in shape as well. It's a win-win in my situation. I think others can do the same as well, but it does take commitment.

reply to post by apushforenlightment

I don't get your point.

Wages here are adjusted to inflation (respectively to changes in minimum cost for achieving the same QoL) in regular wage negotiations at some point.

And what freeride are you talking about?

reply to post by Symbiot


Honest days pay should be part of a monthly or weekly pay packet that is designed to ensure that anyone who works can pay all their bills, rent, food and other costs, and have at least half left over, so that they can save for their future, to buy a home or a car at some not to distant point, rather than scraping by until an utterly inadequate pension destroys the last decades of their lives, if the person is lucky enough to have one.

An honest days work ought to be physical in nature and have a tangible end product. People who do an honest days work have rough hands, and spend half an hour after work removing splinters and metal shavings from their hands and arms, and have to wear protective equipment of a sort.They have residual strength in their bodies that comes of a life of striving physically to achieve a goal. Pushing paper should not count.

The American people are angry because they see the great middle class of this country collapsing, poverty increasing and the gap between the very rich and everyone else grow wider. They are angry because they see this great country, which so many of our veterans fought for and died for, becoming an oligarchy -- a nation where our economic and political life are controlled by a handful of billionaire families.

In the United States today, we have the most unequal distribution of wealth and income since the 1920s. Today, the wealthiest 400 individuals own more wealth than the bottom half of America -- 150 million people.

Today, the six heirs to the Walmart fortune own as much wealth as the bottom 30 percent.

Today, the top 1 percent own 40 percent of all wealth, while the bottom 60 percent owns 2 percent.

Incredibly, the bottom 40 percent of all Americans own just 0.3 percent of the wealth of the country.

According to a new study from the Federal Reserve, median net worth for middle class families dropped by nearly 40 percent from 2007 to 2010. That's the equivalent of wiping out 18 years of savings for the average middle class family.

Greed has made an honest days work for an honest days pay.........unlikely........in the future of America!

I guess I don't understand why we can't just share with each other. You know, sharing... Like when you're not using something someone else can use it and vise versa. I do stuff with my hands and share it with you and then you use that to do stuff with your hands and share it with me, then I use that to do more stuff with my hands and share the fruits of my labor with you... This just keeps going round and round, everybody gets a piece of the pie.

Edit: Think about science ya know... The simplest solution is most likely the correct solution. There's no fiscal blee bloo blah blah, no APR, no rate hikes or lowering, no economics professors or degrees ya just share. For god's sake it's just so simple. Sharing.


Edit: For the record... It's just the strangest damned thing I've ever seen. Ya know someone walks in here and says "Hey, I had this idea, I was thinking maybe we could, you know, treat each other like brothers." And y'all try to #ing murder him. What on god's green earth is going on here. FUBAR.

Dear god in heaven give me strength. This is just #ing insane, in - mother #ing - sane.


Edit: And if you weren't in the know on that situation, I'm not being metaphoric on this I mean murder as in put a gun to your head and pull the trigger murder. Egads!


Still alive though

What's that you say? Oh there's a lot of mysterious deaths surrounding the Obama administration? Well that's a big problem I guess then now isn't it, 'cause I just plain won't die now will I? Try and try as you will, but guess what? Not a damn scratch on me.

Lightning gun, code name THOR, was pathetic. You send a lightning gun to zap me, I send a few words of truth to completely eradicate your entire existence. Sound good? Too late asshole 'cause you already sent that failure you call THOR, it's all over now.

Edit: It's no use getting all bitchy about it, I told you not to do it, but you did it anyway. No one but yourself to blame.