Are the Black Bloc allied with Occupy?

reply to post by wrdwzrd


What do you know about what I know personally? What do you know about what I do? I can tell you from personal experience you are wrong.

It is publicly known that police use black bloc tactics to infiltrate protests, including occupy, start trouble/destroy things and then use that as an excuse to bring in the dressed officers to bust up the protest.

Sure there are protesters that use black bloc tactics, but just as often you will have cops. Just as you had at last years occup protest. You really think cops don't use black bloc to incite the violence? You are so well trained to know the difference between a protester using the tactic and a cop? You would have to be a psychic. They do it every chance they get. Just as they did at the Toronto G20.

reply to post by petrus4


So what? That is where the problem comes in. So many people can't think for themselves. You can go to a college campus during events and see the same symbols. Why? Because these are the exact types of places and events where ideological groups go to recruit. Tons of young people to try and spread ideas to.

I shouldn't even have to explain that. It's common sense. Occupy has nothing to do with communism. The KKK showed up at tea party rallies, but I have enough sense to know that the tea party isn't connected to the KKK. Certain types of events draw certain types of groups, doesn't mean that they have anything to do with the movement they are just trying to recruit the straglers.

So again. No, it has nothing to do with communism.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by wrdwzrd

 

What do you know about what I know personally? What do you know about what I do? I can tell you from personal experience you are wrong.

Are you attempting to imply that Black Bloc individuals are police every single time?

I will accept that police can and do pose as Black Bloc anarchists, in order to provoke people so that they can then make arrests. I will not, however, accept that Black Bloc anarchists are always police.

Claiming such, is an emotive, polarised generalisation.

It is one of those things, every bad thing OWS does will be written off and blammedon someone else. OWS wants to claim to be everyone that is down there and the "99%" but when it comes to the bad apples they are "not OWS". It is just stupid spin

reply to post by petrus4


No.. in my above post I said:

Sure there are protesters that use black bloc tactics, but just as often you will have cops.

For the most part (at least last year during occupy) the majority of provocation was done by the police, and most of the black bloc tactics were used by the police. This year I haven't visited any of the protests or kept up with it much. Occupy is just a general protest of the state of the nation. The right is tryign to twist it into something it's not. The left tried to embrace it until they realized that they weren't going to be able to influence these young people as they thought and that Obama's admin wasn't exactly held in high esteem within the movement. Occupy is the protest. Everyone wants to use it as propaganda. The poor want to tie onto it whatever tool they can use to recruit, the rich want to emphasize the inclusion of anything they think will scare people away from joining.

reply to post by DavidWillts


That's not true and it's an absurd notion. People are people and pissed off people are pissed off people. Why should anyone make any apologies. Fix the same problems for both of them.

Originally posted by DavidWillts
It is one of those things, every bad thing OWS does will be written off and blammedon someone else. OWS wants to claim to be everyone that is down there and the "99%" but when it comes to the bad apples they are "not OWS". It is just stupid spin

I think this is the first time I've ever agreed with you about something, David. It's a historic event.

reply to post by petrus4


Why do you keep assuming we're communists in hiding? Yes there are communists among us, I don't have a problem with them, no one seems to. They wave their flags in plain view, they aren't hiding. That doesn't make Occupy communist though. There's all kinds of ideologies at Occupy.

ETA: Also why would you give Breitbart or anyone associated a mili-second of your time? In my opinion they are not nor do they represent conservatives, they manipulate and lie to them to push their own agenda which seems to be taking as much corporate dollars as they can. Muddy waters serve corporate interest.

Originally posted by DavidWillts
It is one of those things, every bad thing OWS does will be written off and blammedon someone else. OWS wants to claim to be everyone that is down there and the "99%" but when it comes to the bad apples they are "not OWS". It is just stupid spin

it would be VERY naive to think that some people and groups wouldn't want bad publicity for occupy,
the first one that springs to mind is the banks,\

they have the money and power to try and smear occupy,
the first tactic from the banks was to discredit occupy,
the fastest way to do this is with violence,
occupy is stated and by actions non violent and peaceful,

so the question you should ask is WHO benefits from the PERCEPTION that occupy is violent?

when you realise that to crack down with police is only possible with violence,
and they require a pretext to crack down,
you quickly realise that the banks are smart enough to pay for provocatures,
and this forces the police to act aggressively in removing occupiers.

this STOPS occupyers from getting their message out.

so who does it help because its not occupy?
why would occupy give the police the reason to crack down?

ALL actions are premised with an agreement of peaceful non violence.

so if you want me to make a list of groups with an axe to grind on occupy,
it would be a very long list,

and many would do "whatever is necessary" to see occupiers arrested or discreadited

so if you beleve that the most powerful banks and people in the world would NOT pay people to break things to discreadit occupy,

then there is no point in trying to explain it to you.

xploder

reply to post by petrus4


to conform to the right to peacefully assemble ALL people must be FREE,
no picking and choosing,
no throwing out "people with different views"
or throwing out people of different colours,

you concentrate on the communists,
and the anarchists (less than 2% of occupiers)

why not focus on occupy grannies?
or occupy mothers?

or occupy the constitution?

is it just selective groups you choose to represent you opinion of occupy?
why?

are they all not just american ?

are they not just a cross section of all society?

stop being blind to the truth,
the MSM naritive is occupy is comunist,

you sound like you have swolowed MSM propaganda

sad

xploder

reply to post by petrus4

The other, more common reason, I think has to do with the fact that a lot of people involved in Occupy are themselves unaware of the fact, that politically and economically speaking, there is scarcely a single idea inside their heads that Karl Marx did not put there. Marx' influence on contemporary Western society, is pervasive to the point where it has become virtually invisible; which is exactly the way the consciously aware revolutionaries like it.

you seem to have missed the socialist BAILOUTS
while the rest of the country suffers in false caitalism,

IE IF THE BANKS GOT THE CAPITAL, IN A SOCIALISTIC MANNER,
then the argument becomes why do the banks get socialism, while we get austerity?

your view of capitalism is an illusion, the TO BIG TO FAIL?

HOW is that capitalism?
unless capitalism is socialism in this day and age

xploder

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by petrus4

 

Why do you keep assuming we're communists in hiding? Yes there are communists among us, I don't have a problem with them, no one seems to. They wave their flags in plain view, they aren't hiding. That doesn't make Occupy communist though. There's all kinds of ideologies at Occupy.

ETA: Also why would you give Breitbart or anyone associated a mili-second of your time? In my opinion they are not nor do they represent conservatives, they manipulate and lie to them to push their own agenda which seems to be taking as much corporate dollars as they can. Muddy waters serve corporate interest.

edit on 19-6-2012 by Kali74 because: (no reason given)

X2
star

they are divisive for a reason,
who benefits from a people divided?

NOT we the PEOPLE

xploder

Originally posted by XPLodER

Originally posted by DavidWillts
It is one of those things, every bad thing OWS does will be written off and blammedon someone else. OWS wants to claim to be everyone that is down there and the "99%" but when it comes to the bad apples they are "not OWS". It is just stupid spin

it would be VERY naive to think that some people and groups wouldn't want bad publicity for occupy,
the first one that springs to mind is the banks,\

they have the money and power to try and smear occupy,
the first tactic from the banks was to discredit occupy,
the fastest way to do this is with violence,
occupy is stated and by actions non violent and peaceful,

so the question you should ask is WHO benefits from the PERCEPTION that occupy is violent?

when you realise that to crack down with police is only possible with violence,
and they require a pretext to crack down,
you quickly realise that the banks are smart enough to pay for provocatures,
and this forces the police to act aggressively in removing occupiers.

this STOPS occupyers from getting their message out.

so who does it help because its not occupy?
why would occupy give the police the reason to crack down?

ALL actions are premised with an agreement of peaceful non violence.

so if you want me to make a list of groups with an axe to grind on occupy,
it would be a very long list,

and many would do "whatever is necessary" to see occupiers arrested or discreadited

so if you beleve that the most powerful banks and people in the world would NOT pay people to break things to discreadit occupy,

then there is no point in trying to explain it to you.

xploder

like i said, same old spin.

reply to post by wrdwzrd


Of course those who participate in Black Blocs (destructive and non destructive) have legitimate concerns and I think their voice is just as important as any other. However, I personally nor do from what I can gather first hand do many others, welcome vandalism. We want our movement to grow, to be heard...we want the elderly, the disabled and our children to be present and involved and that can't happen if there's a threat of windows being smashed. I don't want my 12 year old son to think breaking things is democracy, it isn't. I get the concept the targets are meant to be symbolic (bank windows etc) I don't agree but I get it.

All most Occupiers want though is safe space to raise our voices and that can't happen when vandalism is happening. Not to mention, the fact that it makes us too easy of a target for agent provocateurs and too easy for the media and whoever else to marginalize us. I want to speak my message, not spend hours deconstructing disinformation before hand.

By all means, march with us...speak up at assemblies but if you want to smash windows...do it on your own.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by petrus4

 

No.. in my above post I said:

Sure there are protesters that use black bloc tactics, but just as often you will have cops.

For the most part (at least last year during occupy) the majority of provocation was done by the police, and most of the black bloc tactics were used by the police. This year I haven't visited any of the protests or kept up with it much. Occupy is just a general protest of the state of the nation. The right is tryign to twist it into something it's not. The left tried to embrace it until they realized that they weren't going to be able to influence these young people as they thought and that Obama's admin wasn't exactly held in high esteem within the movement. Occupy is the protest. Everyone wants to use it as propaganda. The poor want to tie onto it whatever tool they can use to recruit, the rich want to emphasize the inclusion of anything they think will scare people away from joining.

occupy does not support either party,
they are both the problem
left right is an illsion used to distract you from REALITY

both groups are OWNED by wall street

star to you
very well said

xploder

Originally posted by XPLodER
reply to post by petrus4

 

stop being blind to the truth,
the MSM naritive is occupy is comunist,

The photo in my OP comes from Occupy's own web site, not from the mainstream media.

reply to post by DavidWillts

so if you beleve that the most powerful banks and people in the world would NOT pay people to break things to discreadit occupy,

then there is no point in trying to explain it to you.

you choose to not see the power of the banks,
or there interest in undermining occupy?

will full ignorance much?

xploder

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by XPLodER
reply to post by petrus4

 

stop being blind to the truth,
the MSM naritive is occupy is comunist,

The photo in my OP comes from Occupy's own web site, not from the mainstream media.

this DOES NOT EXCUSE the fact that communists and anarchists only make up 2% of occupy

yet you try to use a single picture to explain a cross section of society?

imagine if i tryed that for a second,
if you had a photo of war planes,
then all planes are for war?

wtf?

xploder

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by petrus4

 

ETA: Also why would you give Breitbart or anyone associated a mili-second of your time?

For the same reason I give Occupy's own material my time. I've often said that what I'm interested in is the truth; and I've already seen that I'm not going to get that, by only studying one side of the argument. Neither the conservatives', nor yours. I have to examine both.

reply to post by XPLodER


Well said, that is true logic and critical thinking...which most people cannot grasp. I don't mean that directed at any one person just in general.