Christian doublespeak? Say it ain't so!

Originally posted by network dude
are you a lefty in disguise?

After that comment you should never question my beer-tormentation references. I am gonna bank that one for future referal.

reply to post by WhoKnows100


Wow.

So you are a Mason and a Christian?

Because if you are not a Mason, how could you possibly know what you think you know? And if you are a Mason, why would you be saying what you are saying?

He said that specific "cult" of Christianity, because it is accurate. There are many sects of Christianity, the Westboro people are a sect of Christianity, and each of thes sects, if they are fanatical and close-minded, could be accurately called a cult. The bulk of Christianity is perfectly compatible with Masonry, but the little cults are not compatible with anything!

Originally posted by WhoKnows100
To simply be able to write words like 'hate' and 'cult' and 'Christianity' in one paragraph is my guess.

But fundementalist Christians have been acting like a hate filled cult for some time on this and other websites when it comes to incessant commentary about Masonry. They seemed to have missed the live and let live aspect of life.

Originally posted by WhoKnows100

Now there we go again, assigning names like 'hate' and 'cult' to something that you do not understand.

I sure am glad you aren't one of those people like who wrote that stuff on the website. (they think masonry is a cult, while they huddle in a little corner pointing fingers at anyone who doesn't believe what they do. just like a cult)

If you understood His teachings, you would already know that Masonry is anti-Christ and you would know that the final little horn of Daniel encompasses your organisation. The 'peak' with an eye of man. Clear?

Understand his teachings? I guess so. Agree with them? Not a chance. But just as I am free to think he is an idiot, you are free to think he is the second coming.

If you understood His words you would already know the answer to the question that you ask. I therefore know that you do not speak Truth, nor hold it as valuable. If you are of the Father, you would know the answer to your question, so why ask? To simply be able to write words like 'hate' and 'cult' and 'Christianity' in one paragraph is my guess. Untruths cannot ever gain ground without deceit, lies, misdirection or name-calling. Truth doesn't need any of it.

Truth is very subjective. Jesus tried to spread a message of love to everyone. I must have missed the chapter where he went around tearing others beliefs apart to prove his was right. Maybe that was in the missing years?

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by WhoKnows100

 

The OP seemed like a question?
I asked him why he labeled the the linked website as a 'hate site'?
Is it because it exposes Freemasonry?

Well, if it is a Mason-hating site, then he would label it a hate site wouldn't he? There is nothing to "expose" as you worded it, and the vast majority of Masons in the US are actually Christians, and most normal Christians wouldn't be hating on the Masons or creating special websites against them.

So, he called it a "hate-site" because it happens to be a "hate site."

Now, he also asked the more important question for all of our Christian ATSers. Is there a devil or not? I'm curoius to see the answers myself. What do you think?

Most 'normal' Christians have no idea that the enemy is within their churches, led by Freemasonry pastors who know nothing of the Father nor His Son.

Dualism is not in scripture. God is sovereign. When "The Lie" comes, the Son of Perdition instead of the Son of God, are you going to accept him? For it is the Father that allows the delusion in the first place which allows "The Lie" to be accepted after all. There is evil within man, an evil that rebels against it's own Creator. That wickedness will be removed. The 'devil', whatever that force may be, rules those who don't put their rest in the Saviour. That much is obvious just from simple observation today. But no, there is no dualism as there is only One Creator, Our Father. As to what the 'devil' is, I've not sought an answer from My Father so I cannot give you more of an answer. But it's clear, there are many who not only worship it, but OBEY it.

Originally posted by WhoKnows100
The 'devil', whatever that force may be, rules those who don't put their rest in the Saviour.

So what happens when you do not believe in the Devil or the divinty of Christ?

Originally posted by WhoKnows100
But it's clear, there are many who not only worship it, but OBEY it.

Man, talk about doublespeak!

There is no dualism, yet you state the above?

Dude,
I think you need to step back and take a look at your logic.

My intent here was to show the savage hippocracy of the cult of fundamentalist Christians on this site. You have taken that to a new level.

reply to post by WhoKnows100

When "The Lie" comes, the Son of Perdition instead of the Son of God, are you going to accept him?

I'm not planning to accept either one. I don't like dealing with a middle-man, I go straight to the top.

If you have a problem with preachers teaching the wrong messages, and if you don't believe in a devil, and if you believe men are creating our own problems, then you sould like, like, like.... ME! Welcome to the Farm!

I can guarantee you, as a Mason, that your suspicions are misguided. Take your issues up with the church, not with us. I agree with 95% of what you are saying (everything except accepting a magical 'savior'), sp if we agree 95% of the way, why are you bashing my fraternity?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by WhoKnows100
To simply be able to write words like 'hate' and 'cult' and 'Christianity' in one paragraph is my guess.

But fundementalist Christians have been acting like a hate filled cult for some time on this and other websites when it comes to incessant commentary about Masonry. They seemed to have missed the live and let live aspect of life.

Depends on your definition of "fundamental Christian"?
Fundamental, as defined by most dictionaries, is "Of or relating to the foundation or base; elementary".
Fundamental Christianity would therefore be the faith as expressed in the foundation, base and elementary teachings of Christ Jesus.

Again, you claim to say that Christianity is compatible with Masonry, but yet, you error on His teachings so how do you reach the conclusion that you do? Where did Jesus preach a "live and let live" message? In fact, holy scripture clearly teaches that it's that attitude that takes us to the end of the Age. It's how we got here. Where did Jesus say that He was bringing peace? I can only conclude that you've been so softened by a lukewarm Christian gospel message and so enamoured with the gospel of Lucifer that you can't see the truth of Our Saviour's message. Instead, you must use the "slap on the wrist" words to silence the Word of God. Call me a 'bigot' for refusing to teach children wrong, but all I hear is "they will hate you because they HATED me first". You hate Jesus so you hate any one speaking His words. It bothers you because you love the lies of Lucifers words more, they are so very appealing, no? God doesn't change, only man in a state of rebellion thinks He does.

reply to post by WhoKnows100


I respect your fanaticism. Honestly I do. I hate the "lukewarm gospel" as much as you do. If you're going to believe in this stuff, go all out, and drive it home! Don't just half-ass it, go all the way. Now, if you could direct it in the appropriate direction.

Your crazy beliefs would be welcome in a Mason's lodge. As long as you didn't try to convert everyone during lodge. We have a few guys like you. Nobody is hating you. Nothing in Masonry conflicts with anything you are saying. You have been misled by all the Mason-bashing, just like you claim others have been misled by bad preachers and luke-warm gospel. If you became a Mason, you would see that it is something that exists entirely separate from your religion, and you would be welcome to believe exactly as you believe.

No one is hating Jesus either. Jesus was a wonderful teacher, and many great things have been accomplished by people following Jesus' example. Many terrible things have also been accomplished on Jesus' behalf, but that is just the nature of man to bastardize something toward their own ends. It happens.

reply to post by network dude


The problem I have with this is the claim that there is one Christian Doctrine. I call bullocks. There is not one Christian doctrine, there are thousands of sects who all believe different things. Some churches might portray the relationship of God and Satan as being two opposing forces which are, at least until Revelations, equally matched.

To be honest Satan comes from the word for adversary and in some instances isn't even used to refer to the same character. All mythologies evolve and change. There are many issues with most versions of Satan as a evil to balance God's good. For one if God is all powerful than nothing can oppose God's will, and thus it has to be God's will giving Satan the freedom to commit evil. This implies that God cares more about Satan's momentary free will than he does about Satan's victims having their wills imposed upon by Satan. The same argument can be made against God in human terms, for instance God cares more about the murderer's freed will to murder than he does the victims free will being violated by being shot involuntarily... but I'm off on a tangent here.

By the way I fail to see how saying that Christianity supports dualism is somehow "Christian hate"... in what way is that hate? How is a slight misrepresentation of one interpretation of Christianity hate?

Or are you saying that the Christians are hating on Scottish masons? Well that wouldn't be anything new but hey, at least they're not converting by the edge of a sword and the threat of inquisitions anymore.

Originally posted by WhoKnows100
Again, you claim to say that Christianity is compatible with Masonry...

You must have a serious reading comprehension issue to be saying I claimed that once, let alone multiple times. I never claimed that nor do I care one way or the other.

Where did Jesus preach a "live and let live" message?

I never said that he did, nor do I care if he did, that is just a civilized person's take on life, not a religious nutter that needs to proselytise to others on how they should conduct their lives.

I can only conclude that you've been so softened by a lukewarm Christian gospel message and so enamoured with the gospel of Lucifer that you can't see the truth of Our Saviour's message.

Let me help set you straight. I dumped the dogma prior to becoming a Mason because I could not stand the hypocrisy of the 'Christians' I encountered, nor did I appreciate the intrusive nature of the church into people's personal affairs. As for Lucifer, that is a fairy tale used to frighten bad little fundementalist boys and girls, I do not believe in such silliness.

You hate Jesus so you hate any one speaking His words.

Hate Jesus? No, I just do not think he was divine.

It bothers you because you love the lies of Lucifers words more, they are so very appealing, no?

I think you are the one who loves Lucifer since you are the one who actually believes in him. I am sure he appreciates your dedicated testifying as to his existance.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Because all of us were blind at one point, and it is joyful to learn from my Father and yet painful to have Him show me how it will end and the parties involved. His Kingdom is here and it's not going away - persecution grew the church and will do so again - it's why it's around the corner for me and millions of others. There is only one Saviour, only one name under Heaven which saves.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Hate Jesus? No, I just do not think he was divine.

I am sorry to hear this.

If one cannot see Jesus as divine, how can they see anything else as divine?

If nothing else is divine, then nothing is sacred.

I can see the divine in you, why is it so hard to see the divine in Jesus?

If you cannot see the divine in yourself, you cannot see it in anyone else.

If the divine is not in you, then what are you?

Originally posted by DeathbecomesLife
I am sorry to hear this.

No need to be.

If one cannot see Jesus as divine, how can they see anything else as divine?

Why does this need to be mutally exclusive? Why does Christian theology need to permeate my view on life and spirituality?

Originally posted by WhoKnows100
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

Because all of us were blind at one point, and it is joyful to learn from my Father and yet painful to have Him show me how it will end and the parties involved. His Kingdom is here and it's not going away - persecution grew the church and will do so again - it's why it's around the corner for me and millions of others. There is only one Saviour, only one name under Heaven which saves.

What does that have to do with Masonry? And, when you talk of "your Father" do you mean God or Jesus? And how does a name save? What is "Heaven?"

And, if you do not believe in the devil, what is there to "save" from? Why did God make men evil? Why is God waiting to save us? What is the purpose of all this strife and division and persecution?

If your God is omnipotent, then all of this must be serving some divine purpose, and if it is serving some divine purpose, how can it be evil, and why do we need saved? It seems to me, if there is only one God, and that God is omnipotent, then we are all doing exactly as that God intended, and there is no need for saving?

reply to post by network dude


If one doesn't obey the Spirit of God, what do they obey?
Dualism states that there is an equal force of good and evil.
I've already stated that dualism doesn't exist within scripture for there is only One Sovereign God.
What point are you missing? Can you not see that there is a spirit of disobedience that does exist? I've already stated that I have not sought My Father on what exactly this is, so why the comments? More selfish need to belittle others? It's a trait that appears to be characteristic of masons. If you aren't familiar with scripture, yet want to claim that Christianity is compatable with Masonry, you've lost all credibility.

reply to post by DeathbecomesLife

I can see the divine in you, why is it so hard to see the divine in Jesus?

If you cannot see the divine in yourself, you cannot see it in anyone else.

If the divine is not in you, then what are you?

Sure, I can see the divine in all things, including Jesus, myself, and the frog I kicked out of my pool for trying to lay eggs yesterday. God is in all things, God is divine, but God is not personified like the one in the Bible, and God is not so simplistic as to be describable in human terms, and any attempt to describe God only serves to limit God and cloud the extreme greatness.

If you believe in Jesus Christ as a savior, then how can you see past all those limitations and understand the true nature of God? Believing in any Abrahamic religion is like reading the back cover of a book. It tells you a lot about the book, and it might be extremely interesting and pertinent and moving, but what about all those 100s of pages inside? You really need to stop limiting God by human terms, human emotions, human descriptoins, human limitations of time and space. God is God. Divine is Divine. Your religion is limiting your understanding of God.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Sure, I can see the divine in all things, including Jesus, myself, and the frog I kicked out of my pool for trying to lay eggs yesterday. God is in all things, God is divine, but God is not personified like the one in the Bible, and God is not so simplistic as to be describable in human terms, and any attempt to describe God only serves to limit God and cloud the extreme greatness.

Yes, this is how I see you...

I would not label you, you are what you are.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
If you believe in Jesus Christ as a savior, then how can you see past all those limitations and understand the true nature of God?

I do not believe Jesus Christ is the savior. I did not say this.

He taught the way of the savior...

Love God with all your being, and your neighbor as yourself.

So, I look to you to be the savior.

And to all of mankind.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Why does this need to be mutally exclusive? Why does Christian theology need to permeate my view on life and spirituality?

It has nothing to do with Christian theology, but rather finding a common ground on which we can both stand.

A level so to speak.

Before one builds a relationship, the ground must be level.

Or the building will fall down.

Now it can be argued that one is not obligated to build any relationships. Well then why are you here?

There are many caves to hide in. You do not need to build these relationships.

I am not tearing you down, I am building you up. I am saying that I see the creator of the universe in you.

I am bringing you up to the highest level, that your words will be considered as sacred as my own.

I am not asking for reciprocation.