College Degree =/= Good Job

Originally posted by jjf3rd77


all the jobs i applied to required a financial degree/ Computer degree. True most jobs require a degree but they prefer you to actually be majored in whatever industry the company is in!

You have not applied for every job there is though.

Anyway, on to debunking your business claims:
www.cbsnews.com...

Believe it or not only 25% of the people who major in business are accepted to a master's program in business. Most of those who are accepted are the dreaded "Liberal Arts" majors.

www.cbsnews.com...
You also said Mathematics is not useful, yet it pays more than business.

reply to post by antonia


ah that's why I didn't want to major in business all by itself. For business it's true you need a specialty like how mine is computers. Just because you get a college degree doesn't mean you'll do really well in the real world. And that's the whole point of this thread, you need to sell yourself to employers just like they sell their products. Not sure if you can do that with a theater degree

One of my mentors told me, that even with a 4.0 GPA college degree from a top ivy league school he would hire someone that had a lower GPA from a third tier school every time! Sometimes the nerds don't do well from IVY, sometimes they cannot interact well within corporate world. I've seen this happen too.

reply to post by jjf3rd77


Well, I think the problem here is more fundamental and that's what I said earlier: Is college truly necessary at all? I am in no way disparaging you, but what you learned in college can easily be learned in one's spare time. For some professions it is necessary, however I think the problem is many employers are requiring it when traditionally they never did. For instance, the Army Air Force Exchange service never used to require upper level management to have a degree. They expect all management to have one-Why the hell do you need a degree to manage a quikmart? 15 years ago they didn't, even 10 years ago they weren't tough about it. Today you cannot get a a management job there without a degree. How were they doing it all those years ago without a degree?

This is like the housing bubble, people see an asset and get irrational about it. College is the same thing and eventually it will pop too.

I know from my own experience that a four year degree almost tripled my income. I also have to say I totally agree with the OP. I waited later in life to go back to college, after thinking I could take my raw artistic talent and make a career out of it. FAIL. So I went back to school for engineering.

My wife and I argue this exact point all of the time while we considered our children's future. I believe that they should pursue what they are interested in and they will naturally be successful. She feels that they should head for where the cash is. I have to say that she is the more realistic. People need income to survive, and you can chase your dreams on the side when you have more cash in hand. I mean, why can't you play cello or join a theater as an extra curricular activity?

When I was in college there was a kid who informed me he was majoring in Psychology with a music emphasis. What the hell is that? What kind of work could he possibly find with that type of degree, realistically?

reply to post by notionfreely


I'm coming from a standpoint of my experience plus stories that I've heard from several in my generation. As for subjective, declaring random degrees useless is also pretty subjective. Just because I it's hard to say that "A" degree leads directly to "B" job doesn't make "A" degree completely useless.

Originally posted by VekTorVik

When I was in college there was a kid who informed me he was majoring in Psychology with a music emphasis. What the hell is that? What kind of work could he possibly find with that type of degree, realistically?

I guess you can be a hypnotist or a psychic! Bazinga!!!!!

Seriously, that's about it though if you think of things logically and not follow your passion, you can find something you enjoy at any job, well That's what I try to do at least...

I started college to study English Lit and never finished. I don't believe you need a college degree to be successful. I have started my own business and it's in its second year. As long you have the drive and want it bad enough you can make it happen. It's up to you.

I admire these people:

Farmers, construction workers, home builders, doctors, firemen, policemen and veterinarians.

When the **** hits the fan these are the people who are going to help put society back together!

Success isn't always about money.

Originally posted by jjf3rd77
reply to post by PurpleChiten

 

So there will be no capitalism but you will have to work? No thanks. I want to work for myself and my customers/employees/family.

I could care less about anybody else that I don't know personally

People will work for their enjoyment, for their passion. You will care at some point, and that point is coming... it will be a major mind shift, more major for some then for others

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
I said the degree in music is worthless as is the degree in mathematics!!!

I would highly would disagree with that as I have seen very high paying jobs in mathematics. Just about every engineering degree can be substituted with a degree in mathematics. Wall street paid some serious cash to mathematicians to crunch numbers for them.

Software and hardware engineering employ lots of mathematicians.

I never understood people that argue over what degree "pays more". As if it's just a game, and once you get the achievement, you win. With some achievements being better than others.

reply to post by jjf3rd77


Good thread, I hope a lot of college bound students take notice before declaring their major.

I could probably add to your upper part of your list....

Political Science
Philosophy
English
Fine Art

There's a lot of dead end degrees out there, and colleges don't care. They're happy to take your money.

I could never understand why some students who have a gift to gab and are easily well liked would want to spend an exorbitant amount of money to get a degree in Marketing i.e. sales. The majority of business owners who need good sales people, don't care if you have a degree. If you can talk anyone into buying the shoes off my feet, you're hired. I mean, that's really the bottom line. If you have a positive attitude, motivation and the determination to work hard, companies would rather train you than hire someone who thinks they deserve a high salary from the start because they have a college degree.

The problem is, most high school graduates don't know what they want to do. They're chronically bombarded throughout their high school years that after high school you have to attend college to get a good job. NOT! There are a lot of people who are making a good living learning technical skills. We have plumbers and electricians and contractors who are living in the most well to do neighborhoods where I live, along with doctors, lawyers and other professionals.

There are a lot of college graduates today that are not even working in their area of study.

When you consider the cost of tuition and how much the average salary wage is, it's sometimes wise to look into technical trades or possibly using the same amount of money your going to spend for a degree into a start-up business.

Unless you plan on going into a 4 or more year Healthcare degree, Engineering, Teaching, Law, or other well paying and in demand jobs, college would be a reasonable fit.

High school students should be required to take a class that researches areas they're interested in and the salaries they can expect. I'm sure many would be surprised how little some jobs actually pay and how few jobs are available. Just because you like doing something doesn't mean it pays a liveable wage. Lobs are not always abundant, or the excessive amount of hours in a day really reduces how much you're really getting paid.

A lot of parents of my generation looked down on students who received vocational training, but some of these students ended up starting their own successful businesses and offered a skill that was high in demand. When you really think about it, how many people need their cars repaired, houses repaired, renovated or built, electrical work, plumbing, wiring, electronic repair, computers repaired, appliances repaired, their hair cut...etc, etc.... Where there's a demand for services like that, their are always jobs available and money to be made.

Originally posted by interupt42

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
I said the degree in music is worthless as is the degree in mathematics!!!

I would highly would disagree with that as I have seen very high paying jobs in mathematics. Just about every engineering degree can be substituted with a degree in mathematics. Wall street paid some serious cash to mathematicians to crunch numbers for them.

Software and hardware engineering employ lots of mathematicians.

edit on 18-6-2012 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)

OK my bad about the mathematics. I just don't like maths haha is it ironic that I am one of those data crunchers you talk about? I'm just an organizer though. I don't make the strategies...

I would add your suggestions to my list, but alas I have surpassed the 4 hour windows. stupid rule...

Originally posted by WeRpeons
reply to post by jjf3rd77

 

If you can talk anyone into buying the shoes off my feet, you're hired. I mean, that's really the bottom line. If you have a positive attitude, motivation and the determination to work hard, companies would rather train you than hire someone who thinks they deserve a high salary from the start because they have a college degree.

Be careful with sales jobs tho, a lot of those are riskier as they are commission only. Or contract jobs. Based on how much you sell, so if you have a bad week/month you don't have a stable paycheck...

High school students should be required to take a class that researches areas they're interested in and the salaries they can expect. I'm sure many would be surprised how little some jobs actually pay and how few jobs are available. Just because you like doing something doesn't mean it pays a liveable wage. Lobs are not always abundant, or the excessive amount of hours in a day really reduces how much you're really getting paid.

That's a good idea but then another problem emerges. You get each field saying that they are the best yada yada and you can earn $70K right after college. Then when you get to the real world you find it's really 30K and horrible hours...

When you really think about it, how many people need their cars repaired, houses repaired, renovated or built, electrical work, plumbing, wiring, electronic repair, computers repaired, appliances repaired, their hair cut...etc, etc.... Where there's a demand for services like that, their are always jobs available and money to be made.

Yup like my dad he owns a million dollar auto company! He's making great profits but he has to be careful not to go to high over the new Obama tax limits for the so-called rich...

I just have to make a few comments on this subject....I graduated from high school in 1981 and did not go onto college. Frankly I felt sick of school at that point in my life and had no idea what I wanted to do with my life. I didn't feel particularly talented in any way. So I took an entry level job at an insurance company. It was great - simple tasks, learned the rules of working in an office without many true responsibilities - and I got paychecks!!

As time went on I ended up at a job with on the job training in employee benefits....I learned that I love doing telephone customer service, and that I was very good at overseeing and completing projects on time. With some solid work experience, and an excellent attendance record, I started reaching out to some higher level positions. I also began taking classes that were specific in my field. I have since earned 5 professional insurance deignations, and I am a certified COBRA administrator!! I now hold a management position at small company and I LOVE my job!!

I have also since reconnected with a lot of people I went to high school with who did go onto college - and today most of them have no better jobs than I do. I'm guessing they may have earned more money than me early on, but it seems to have evened out.

Do I regret not going to college? Nope. College is not for everyone. Over the years I have of course worked with many college graduates. Some were very impressive people. Some couldn't come to work on time, called sick on Friday's and Monday's, and soon disapeared into history.

So if you don't have a specific dream or goal right out of high school - just enjoy being young, but work hard and be responsible.

Originally posted by jjf3rd77
reply to post by zeeon

 

Military is never useless!

Military is also the third alternative.

I'm prior military and Im doing extremely well. I think the last 5 years I was in I made more than 100k per year with half the taxes. Pay is not bad, and I could live off my military retirement if I wanted to.

Originally posted by Lynzer

So if you don't have a specific dream or goal right out of high school - just enjoy being young, but work hard and be responsible.

Yes you have to work for your dream, many college kids these days don't get that. It's worse if they have daddy's trust fund...

Originally posted by yougetwhatyoudeserve
reply to post by zeeon

 

What is the 740 club ??

740 credit rating.

reply to post by jjf3rd77


I've spent £27,000 on a degree which is roughly $42,000 give or take. It's taken me 4 years and I am now looking for unpaid voluntary work of which I simply cannot find. I'm £27k in debt and I can't even get unpaid work, go figure? I've been scammed. I can't get experience yet everyone wants experience... How do you get experience if you can't even offer yourself for free to get it?

Although this is the situation with me, I'd still recommend people go to college/uni and get a trade.

I don't know... From what the majority of people continue to tell me, a degree in electronics engineering with a few extra classes that would qualify me for anything in the field of electronics/electrical and possibly even mechanical engineering is a complete waste of my time. I've literally lost count of the times that I have been told I do not belong there since I come from a poor family that couldn't and wouldn't if they could, afford to send me to school. Apparently one can easily find a job as an engineer without learning the basics/principles in school, just walk in and say "hey I wanna be your apprentice yo!"

I truly do wish it were that simple, I wouldn't have to have all the debt. Unfortunately if I plan on being an engineer I have no choice but to suck it up and take the debt but at least as an engineer who grew up in poverty I should be able to live within my means and pay it all off in under five years. This assuming I can actually land a job of course...

In all honesty, a degree is only as good as you use it. I can have the best degree in the world that gives me a big advantage in a field that has the most jobs available with the best pay, but if I don't know what I'm doing or how to use it, its just a pretty piece of paper. Obviously some majors are "safer" than others, but that still doesn't discount that English or History can be valuable majors, especially if you use those as a stepping stone for a specialized graduate degree.

I'm personally in the middle of a History/Comparative Religious Studies degree. I have no idea what I want to do with it, but that's fine by me right now (I still have a good 2 years before I graduate). I've never been able to keep my interest in one area for more than a year or two, so I was really hesitant about declaring a major or even committing to a school. I went and got my Associates first, figured some more things out, and then decided that H/CRS was the best for me because it was a way for me to dabble in just about anything. Sure, it won't teach me how to solve advanced math equations or anything like that, but it will at least tell me who the person was behind it or what they scientific world was like when it happened. I don't want to teach, but if I have to, I can teach religion at a private school or something like that, because I sure as hell aren't finding a job teaching history.

That's another thing. If you want to be an English or History teacher (or anything popular like that), go for it, but know that those jobs are hard to come by. If you're prepared for the idea that you will have trouble finding a job (more so than normal), then follow your dreams to the ends of the Earth. A few years ago, my dad tried to get me to go into a program with computers or IT, but I didn't want to because (1) I don't like those subjects, and (2) everyone else was doing it. I see no value in jumping on the bandwagon for a career, because eventually the jobs will stop coming. Whether its the economy or just too many people, that "gold rush" doesn't last forever. If I'm going to spend several years studying something, and gaining a bit of debt along the way (roughly about $20k for me), then I'm going to study something I actually like. I've got the rest of my life to be a slave to wages like the rest of the world, allow me these few years of enjoyment.

Originally posted by VekTorVik
When I was in college there was a kid who informed me he was majoring in Psychology with a music emphasis. What the hell is that? What kind of work could he possibly find with that type of degree, realistically?

There's programs out there that use music as therapy. Some of it deals with how the brain process things and how speech is formed, etc. He was probably wanting to go into some form of therapy or study how music works on a cognitive level.