Socialists Win French Parliament Race As World Turns Socialist.

reply to post by ANOK


The key point in the book that goes hand in hand with the comment about labor worth -

All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.

France wishes to increase its welfare programs, which will assist those who are not working. If they are not working, then how exactly is their labor worth determined and who has to work more to pay for them?

Originally posted by Xcathdra

France wishes to increase its welfare programs, which will assist those who are not working. If they are not working, then how exactly is their labor worth determined and who has to work more to pay for them?

I have no idea what France's plans are, as I said it is liberalism not socialism. I am not defending what they're doing.

I am not a liberal, you need to ask them.

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by Xcathdra

France wishes to increase its welfare programs, which will assist those who are not working. If they are not working, then how exactly is their labor worth determined and who has to work more to pay for them?

I have no idea what France's plans are, as I said it is liberalism not socialism. I am not defending what they're doing.

I am not a liberal, you need to ask them.

Hence the reason my first post was directed at the person making a false claim. You jumped in on the conversation, which is fine, and made a somewhat similar argument he did. You then stated solcialism would give you your full labor worth. I am stating and asking you now, what is a persons labor worth if they are not working, and how can that argument be applied since others who are working who are paying into the system are in fact paying for that non workings persons labor worth.

In that case socialiam, liberalsim and capitalism are doing the same thing.

Originally posted by Badgered1
It's simple. You take all the political power and give it to the wealthy corporations. Hey, it worked for Mussolini...
Oh...wait....

Sorry.

I'd better....um...go.

Mussolini was a SOCIALIST...just like Hitler... They both just invented a new branch of socialism...

I swear socialists are getting dumber by the day...

Mussolini also implemented LEFTWING policies... Lets read AGAIN the policies of Mussolini...

First, a bit of history on Hitler...

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." --Adolf Hitler

(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)

...
Hitler was intent on having a community of mutual interest that desired mutual success instead of one that was divided over the control of money or differing values.

THE COMMON INTEREST BEFORE SELF-INTEREST -
THAT IS THE SPIRIT OF THE PROGRAM. BREAKING OF THE THRALDOM OF INTEREST - THAT IS THE KERNEL OF NATIONAL SOCIALISM.

constitutionalistnc.tripod.com...


And if we look at a LEFTWING source, wikipedia, let's see what the FASCIST MANIFESTO of Mussolini is all about...

Contents of the Fascist Manifesto

The manifesto (published in "Il Popolo d'Italia" on June 6, 1919) is divided into four sections, describing Fascist objectives in political, social, military and financial fields.[2]

Politically, the manifesto calls for:
Universal suffrage with a lowered voting age to 18 years, and voting and electoral office eligibility for all age 25 and more, including women;
Proportional representation on a regional basis;
Voting for women (which was opposed by most other European nations);
Representation at government level of newly created national councils by economic sector;
The abolition of the Italian Senate (at the time, the senate, as the upper house of parliament, was by process elected by the wealthier citizens, but were in reality direct appointments by the king. It has been described as a sort of extended council of the crown);
The formation of a national council of experts for labor, for industry, for transportation, for the public health, for communications, etc. Selections to be made of professionals or of tradesmen with legislative powers, and elected directly to a general commission with ministerial powers (this concept was rooted in corporatist ideology and derived in part from Catholic social doctrine).

In labour and social policy, the manifesto calls for:
The quick enactment of a law of the state that sanctions an eight-hour workday for all workers;
A minimum wage;
The participation of workers' representatives in the functions of industry commissions;
To show the same confidence in the labor unions (that prove to be technically and morally worthy) as is given to industry executives or public servants;
Reorganisation of the railways and the transport sector;
Revision of the draft law on invalidity insurance;
Reduction of the retirement age from 65 to 55.

In military affairs, the manifesto advocates:
Creation of a short-service national militia with specifically defensive responsibilities;
Armaments factories are to be nationalised;
A peaceful but competitive foreign policy.

In finance, the manifesto advocates:
A strong progressive tax on capital (envisaging a “partial expropriation” of concentrated wealth);
The seizure of all the possessions of the religious congregations and the abolition of all the bishoprics, which constitute an enormous liability on the Nation and on the privileges of the poor;
Revision of all contracts for military provisions;
The revision of all military contracts and the seizure of 85 percent of the profits therein.

The manifesto thus combined elements of contemporary democratic and progressive thought (franchise reform, labour reform, limited nationalisation, taxes on wealth and war profits) with corporatist emphasis on class collaboration (the idea of social classes existing side by side and collaborating for the sake of national interests; the opposite of the Marxist notion of class struggle).

en.wikipedia.org...

It is because SOCIALISTS always seek to get their noses EVERYWHERE that dictatorship emerges...

I am a capitalist, but I have no stocks or have any link to ANY oil company or any coropration...

Let me try to put it lightly...

WE DON'T CARE WHAT YOU DO.

You are FREE to do what you want... If you think those changes are good for you good, more power to you...

Now STOP TRYING TO MAKE US/DEMAND FOR US TO BE LIKE YOU...

Oh and btw, I have a prediction for ya France...

You MIGHT hire 60,000 teachers, but you are going to lose hundreds of thousands, if not millions of jobs. Not to mention that your standard of living is going to LOWER SIGNIFICANTLY...

Corporations are going to do one of three things.

1.They might just LEAVE France, and take most their jobs with them to other countries and other people.

2. They will fire probably hundreds of thousands if not millions of people, and/or lower salaries SIGNIFICANTLY

3. If France taxes companies for taking their jobs overseas, they will simply go into bankrupcy mode and start afresh in another country, under another name taking ALL their jobs with them...

You are going to look back at the tmes when "France USED to be the fourth leading industrial power in the world" when you become a THIRD WORLD COUNTRY...

France is going to have to become the first country to invent the tree that grows money...

Otherwise I wonder how the French think they will pay all their unemployed people, and help pay for the rest of the French who will need welfare...

The French screwed themselves imo...

Oh well... Maybe they will become less arrogant?

BTW, when all of this happens I HOPE the French won't "blame America for their problems"... Which I am sure at least some will try to do...

I think the French don't know, as well as some other socialists, that many of the corporations in France are French...

In fact, several years ago I used to work for a company started by two French brothers which they funded in the early 1920s

Originally posted by Xcathdra
Hence the reason my first post was directed at the person making a false claim.

And I agreed with you, except it's not socialism it's liberalism, that was my point.

You jumped in on the conversation, which is fine, and made a somewhat similar argument he did. You then stated solcialism would give you your full labor worth. I am stating and asking you now, what is a persons labor worth if they are not working, and how can that argument be applied since others who are working who are paying into the system are in fact paying for that non workings persons labor worth.

In that case socialiam, liberalsim and capitalism are doing the same thing.

Because socialism is the workers ownership of the means of production, hand-outs from the government is liberalism. Under socialism there would be no one out of work because the means to produce would not be put in mothballs by private owners because they are not making profit. Socialism is a needs based system, not profit based. Workers would be free to produce to meet their needs and desires, with no restrictions from government or capitalists artificial scarcity for profits.

The only thing that creates scarcity is lack of labour and machinery.

Whether today's global overcapacity is seen as cause or effect of the economic crisis, one thing is certain: it isn't easy to make a profit in a world awash with overproduction. Capitalism is born in conditions of scarcity and is unable to function outside of them. So it seems logical that the crisis creates a tendency to restore these conditions artificially. But how does this affect the chances of the global economy to find a way out of its present predicament?

Artificial Scarcity in a World of Overproduction: An Escape that Isn't

Capitalism relies on artificial scarcity in order to keep profits high. This benefits the capitalist private owner, but hurts the majority of people struggling to survive in a world that can easily supply all we need.

Technological capacity to produce enough to satisfy everyone's needs already exists globally and has done so for many decades. Yet needs continue to remain unmet on a massive scale. Why? Quite simply because scarcity is a functional requirement of capitalism itself.

Artificial scarcity

Liberalism is not the answer to the problem of capitalism. Liberalism creates problems all of it's own. Why should we pay taxes for government hand-outs to off-set the problems caused by capitalism? If capitalists themselves had to pay for the hand-outs I'd be all for it, but why should we the workers pay for a problem caused by the capitalist class? If the workers owned the means of production we wouldn't need government hand-outs, it would not be liberalism, it would be workers/producers freely associating, and producing to meet their needs and desires.

In the anarchist, Marxist and socialist sense, free association (also called free association of producers or, as Marx often called it, community of freely associated individuals) is a kind of relation between individuals where there is no state, social class or authority, in a society that has abolished the private property of means of production. Once private property is abolished, individuals are no longer deprived of access to means of production so they can freely associate themselves (without social constraint) to produce and reproduce their own conditions of existence and fulfill their needs and desires.

Free association (communism and anarchism)

yeah, we need more corporate control of the political system so the elite can rape the earth and I really love my fractional reserve lending, we'll be in debt for a thousand years !!

yay republicans !!!!

After...

...destroying the world economy
...making millions jobless
...putting families with children out into the streets with no roof over their heads
...sending the suicide rate skyrocketing,...

..any normal moral person would hang their head in shame, probably from 6 foot of rope, yet Socialists are such inhumane scum, these utter filth actually have the cheek to suggest even more of the lying and cheating and milking the public purse. No matter how low my opinion of this utter filth, my opinion of socialists always turns out to be overgenerous. They really, really are cockroaches, the utter, utter filth of humanity, the scapings off the very bottom of the barrel..

Originally posted by bearwithredhat
...yet Socialists are such inhumane scum.

Scuse me but they're not socialists, they're liberals.

Please don't insult socialists, we don't want government and their hand-outs, we want worker ownership of the means of production. We want free association.