Performing Magick and Breaking The Law – An Observation

By Magick I am referring to any deliberate act or intention that is designed to effect change in the physical world by employing supernatural forces existent in the metaphysical realms, be it through internal or external measures. This could include incantations, rituals and any other techniques that call on, or utilise powers that exist beyond the comprehension of the modern day socially/culturally conditioned mind.

If you were to threaten somebody with physical violence, including murder, then that would normally be considered as a criminal offence, under most legal systems. Here is an example of an Australian criminal code :-

1) Any person who
(a) with intent to intimidate or annoy any person, by words or conduct threatens to enter or damage a dwelling or other premises; or
(b) with intent to alarm any person, discharges loaded firearms or does any other act that is likely to cause any person in the vicinity to fear bodily harm to any person or damage to property;
commits a crime.
Maximum penalty - 2 years imprisonment.


So hypothetically, if you were to do the same but instead of threatening physical violence, you were to say or write something like this to another party – “I am going to liberate your spirit from your gross form by severing the silver cord that connects the two while you are sleeping”, how would this be treated by a legal representative ? I would guess with something like a giggle or a rolling of the eyes.

Continuing on this same train of thought, what if a group of people, small or large, with the same malicious intent made such a statement in public, with the other party being a person in a prominent, powerful or stately position ? I won’t name names but I think you get the gist of who I could be referring to. I think this would draw a fair amount of attention – but not from the legal fraternity, because there is no ground for prosecution when the threat can not be defined by any type of legal precedent. Correct me if I’m wrong !

So my observation is this – Our laws do not cover acts of violence which occur in the non-physical realms. You might be thinking ‘duh’ but I find this extremely interesting and worthy of discussion. I am not saying that they should. There seems to exist in this earth realm a divide between those who lack esoteric knowledge and experience and those who are fully immersed in it.

PLEASE NOTE - this thread is not an attempt to persuade people to group together or work alone to commit nefarious acts upon another in the incorporeal realms, although I would be naive if I said that this isn’t already happening to some degree.

I am of the opinion, and I have stated this a few times on this site, that Karma will always be our best teacher and final judge and jury. To try to exact control or punishment upon another in the physical or non-physical worlds is a slippery slope and is best avoided all together. I have only arrived at this theory in the last few years after much contemplation and spiritual introspection. Previous to that I was very much the self-righteous ‘I will make the bad guys pay’ kind of person.

Your thoughts ? Seems a good subject for the members here. I posted another thread a few weeks back on a similar topic but didn’t get much attention. Maybe because not many people know John Lash.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Please be mindful of this sites T & C if you do reply.

Peace Out - Ned

My thoughts? Umm...humble amusement? I don't think there is a defining emotion that would arise out of me if one were to gather a group to commit nefarious acts with...magic. As far as I'm concerned, magic doesn't exist the way many people think it exists. I.e. no such thing as willing a person to die and then going to sit down with a glass of lemonade and watch that person fall before you. I don't think things such as that could possibly exist, and if it does, there has to be a science behind it. Alchemy exists, Astronomy exists (to a certain degree), but magic in the way you describe it I am sure does not exist. I mean if __ wanted someone to die, __ would commit acts that would cause that person's death, and if that is the same as "willing a person to death" then yes, that is punishable by law.

LOL

good luck with placing in a box that which is broderless.

i mean

u cant exactly round off to 2 decimal points and control the metaphysical existence to use in calculation on the physical plane.


just saying. if anyone gets it.

If there is no proof legally then you are not going to jail.If your victim retaliates in the same fashion you have no defence as you have violated a few laws regarding magical protocols.If you can't concentrate forever in a protected barrier,you will be taken.
There are many who are sacrificed in rituals however,that is protected by the pantheon in which you serve.
That is the highest dark there is an to get there is beyond hard and essentially evil to the maximum possible extent.
They hate outsiders and amateurs people disappear all the time and why has yet to be discovered.

reply to post by mr10k


As far as I'm aware science is the study of the physical world. You can't apply science to this as what I'm tallking about takes place purely through consciousness and knowledge of Self.

Whether you like it or not you are influencing the physical world every day, either consciously or unconcsiously.

The shaman was an expert at travelling the spirit realms and influencing the physical world - these techniques for healing are still as relevant today as they were 5 000-10 000 years ago.

Peace

If Government wear to make such laws they would be admitting that there is "reality" beyond the physical and would lose control of the masses. The family's witch control the worlds nations, dare I say Aliens (blood lines of the "Gods") have kept this knowledge from modern man in order to keep them under their control. Our true nature is spiritual. Thru out the time "line" a abundance of knowledge was slowly lost, destroyed by some one that did not want us to know the true potential of human beings. They did (do) this with 2 compartmentalized networks, Christianity and Science. Christianity will tell you that magic is evil and science will tell you its hokus pokus. 2 sides, one for left brained people and one for right brained people. This type of duality appears with in control systems allot.

Originally posted by nimbinned
reply to post by mr10k

 

As far as I'm aware science is the study of the physical world. You can't apply science to this as what I'm tallking about takes place purely through consciousness and knowledge of Self.

Whether you like it or not you are influencing the physical world every day, either consciously or unconcsiously.

The shaman was an expert at travelling the spirit realms and influencing the physical world - these techniques for healing are still as relevant today as they were 5 000-10 000 years ago.

Peace

As far as I'm aware science is the study of the physical world. You can't apply science to this as what I'm tallking about takes place purely through consciousness and knowledge of Self. Whether you like it or not you are influencing the physical world every day, either consciously or unconcsiously.

Yes I agree that every action you do, no matter your intent will affect the physical world. If I were to go outside, I would be stepping on microbes, which would have probably evolved millions of years in the future to spawn some other lifeform.

But sitting down, and closing your eyes and trying to will your bedroom door to open...well...that's not going to happen unless you get up and open it.

There is a science behind consciousness and Self, it's called Psychology read up on it

The shaman was an expert at travelling the spirit realms and influencing the physical world - these techniques for healing are still as relevant today as they were 5 000-10 000 years ago.

I also do not believe in other 'realms'. As far as I am concerned, this is the only realm. We do not know everything about it, and we have yet to discover all of the laws in accordance with this universe, but it is the only realm we humans will ever know. Various metaphysical authors believe in things like the astral plane and things, but they also believe they are just this realm, just seen differently.

IMHO, I could never believe in something like other realms unless there was a science behind it.

Let me ask you a question OP

Why is it acceptable for the dark artists to use their power in other realms to affect the physical world, harm others etc and for so-called "light workers" it's taboo, bad karma, whatever? I've wondered about this topic a lot, I'm glad you brought it up. The only reason I can think of why it's ok for them but not for us is because if you do the dark art, it will co opt you, so to speak. We are all a mixture of dark and light, why can't my darkness be used to engage darkness, like an inoculation? Maybe it already has. If you have inner balance, and great self-control, maybe it can be done and be effective. I'm familiar with John Lash and heard the radio program where he discussed this. I think if you feel that you can maintain balance and not get addicted to your power, it's another kettle of fish. I think it's probably the hardest thing in the world to do.

Originally posted by Infi8nity
If Government wear to make such laws they would be admitting that there is "reality" beyond the physical and would lose control of the masses. The family's witch control the worlds nations, dare I say Aliens (blood lines of the "Gods") have kept this knowledge from modern man in order to keep them under their control. Our true nature is spiritual. Thru out the time "line" a abundance of knowledge was slowly lost, destroyed by some one that did not want us to know the true potential of human beings. They did (do) this with 2 compartmentalized networks, Christianity and Science. Christianity will tell you that magic is evil and science will tell you its hokus pokus. 2 sides, one for left brained people and one for right brained people. This type of duality appears with in control systems allot.

I guess that's what I was alluding to in some way, but didn't say it directly.

The reason why there are no laws is because this would throw a 'spanner in the works'. We can't have a mass awakening on this planet because that would create too much chaos for the 'controllers'.

Reminds me of a Bill Hicks routine regarding the 'dangers' of opening the 3rd eye through the use of entheogens. Sorry to those who are sick of my Bill Hicks stuff. Actually I'm not sorry.



Thanks Infi8nity

reply to post by mr10k


I don't think debating with you will get very far. We are coming from 2 opposing positions.

My out of body/out of mind experiences are very real to me. I have spent most of my life discovering worlds beyond this one. I am what some would call a 'psychonaut'.

If you think I'm making this up, all well and good, but I would suggest you do some anthropological research and serious meditation practice before declaring that this 'realm' is the only one. We are indeed multi-dimensional spirit beings playing in a vast matrix of realities, subtle and not so subtle.

Thanks - Ned

This is a subject I have really pondered in my own training.
Without going into specifics it has been my experience that intention is a very powerful force in this universe.
It has the potential to catalyze well its potential is limitless.
There is no real way to prove someone has done something except circumstantial evidence. Perhaps this is part of the logic behind the witch burnings etc.
Researching Nina Kulagina I found that she could stop a frogs heart with focus. Later in life she died of heart failure. Karma?
The potential to damage property is real one. When one realizes this to be a true reality one begins to ponder the ethics and targets one trains on.
I think that there are elements and intelligences out there which are capable of more than we could imagine within our limited reference frame yet there appears to be laws which may be in force that must be followed.
Then again Crowley said "do as though wilt."
Think about this people will always try and project their own limitations on others. Social laws often created by community consensus are necessarily universally binding. Much the same way as some follow a Sharia Law path others a Hedonist path.
For me it comes down to my own spiritual evolution. It is a personal choice as those things which are not beneficial evolving my spirit are wasteful. It is my true belief that we are all connected. Something to contemplate.

If there was such a thing a problem might arise if you were wrong in your judgements and assumptions and yet had already sent out the spell or incantation or whatever. Once sent out to your intended victim, there are laws of karma that kick in, so one could get burned and shown up by still higher powers that be in the spiritual domain, as being not only incompetent to use such powers, but found to be attempting to make use of them with ill intent ie: for evil. However, if you could trick an evil person into using majick against YOU for false reasons, and place that individual or institution of magic into a double-bind, then you'd be a type of hero for luring a beast into a trap of chains and double binds from which there's no escape.

You must bind the strong man before you can pilfer his house of everything he owns. If the aim is to then immediately distribute the treasures to the little man and the downtrodden, like Robin Hood stealing from the rich to give to the poor, then that's the kind of magic I'd be interested in peforming, and have, inadvertantly with the aid and protection of Christ.

Originally posted by Pilot


Let me ask you a question OP

Why is it acceptable for the dark artists to use their power in other realms to affect the physical world, harm others etc and for so-called "light workers" it's taboo, bad karma, whatever? I've wondered about this topic a lot, I'm glad you brought it up. The only reason I can think of why it's ok for them but not for us is because if you do the dark art, it will co opt you, so to speak. We are all a mixture of dark and light, why can't my darkness be used to engage darkness, like an inoculation? Maybe it already has. If you have inner balance, and great self-control, maybe it can be done and be effective. I'm familiar with John Lash and heard the radio program where he discussed this. I think if you feel that you can maintain balance and not get addicted to your power, it's another kettle of fish. I think it's probably the hardest thing in the world to do.

edit on 16-6-2012 by Pilot because: (no reason given)

I believe that Karma applies to all beings - it does not discriminate - it is a universal law that permeates all of creation.

The idea of light and dark workers does not mean much to me - I see it as all being one in the same.

Project or Cultivate Love and you will BE Love. Try to Control or Manipulate another Being and you, your Self, will become a prisoner of this energy. That is because we are all one. You are Me and I am You.

Peace Out

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
If there was such a thing a problem might arise if you were wrong in your judgements and assumptions and yet had already sent out the spell or incantation or whatever. Once sent out to your intended victim, there are laws of karma that kick in, so one could get burned and shown up by still higher powers that be in the spiritual domain, as being not only incompetent to use such powers, but found to be attempting to make use of them with ill intent ie: for evil. However, if you could trick an evil person into using majick against YOU for false reasons, and place that individual or institution of magic into a double-bind, then you'd be a type of hero for luring a beast into a trap of chains and double binds from which there's no escape.

You must bind the strong man before you can pilfer his house of everything he owns. If the aim is to then immediately distribute the treasures to the little man and the downtrodden, like Robin Hood stealing from the rich to give to the poor, then that's the kind of magic I'd be interested in peforming, and have, inadvertantly with the aid and protection of Christ.

NewAgeMan - I'm not too sure about that logic.

The 'trick' you talk about is still an act of will, intention designed to illicit a specific result.

Your 'intention' might be honourable but who is to say that Robin Hood was pure of heart - he could have just been a miscreant impersonating a do-gooder. What if you were rich because you worked hard to achieve that and were charitable anyway ? When I was younger I always thought I would become the Spiritual version of Che Guevara - but in reality he was just another conflicted individual - he said he killed people because he loved humanity

Thanks - Ned

Project or Cultivate Love and you will BE Love. Try to Control or Manipulate another Being and you, your Self, will become a prisoner of this energy. That is because we are all one. You are Me and I am You.

Peace Out



Right, if you engage in manipulation you'll get caught up in the game. I agree. My question was how to address darkness without that happening. Sometimes it is necessary to stand up to and face the darkness, toe to toe. Just everyday situations when you witness injustice or violence, do you just project love and hope it all works out or take action?

reply to post by Shirak


Thanks Shirak for sharing - pretty cool vid. Man - seeing that plasma ball gave me flash-backs to the hours and hours I would spend meditating on mine while locked away in my bedroom. Can you still get them ?

Have you seen the videos of people holding a lit flourescent tube under a power-line or tried it yourself ?

Peace - Ned

Originally posted by Pilot

Project or Cultivate Love and you will BE Love. Try to Control or Manipulate another Being and you, your Self, will become a prisoner of this energy. That is because we are all one. You are Me and I am You.

Peace Out



Right, if you engage in manipulation you'll get caught up in the game. I agree. My question was how to address darkness without that happening. Sometimes it is necessary to stand up to and face the darkness, toe to toe. Just everyday situations when you witness injustice or violence, do you just project love and hope it all works out or take action?

This is a tricky one and always gets me in to trouble when I debate this with my friends (even lost a friend over it). It's like that question - Would you kill 1 person to save 1000 people? Is it Karma for those 1000 to die because of the act of 1 person ? Can killing another be an act of Love ? (ie euthenasia)

I think all you can do is trust your intuition (messages from the higher self), as long as you know it is your intution speaking and not a product of the every-day mind. It's vital then to meditate and carry out spiritual practice in order to tune in to your higher self and allow it to express itself in the physical world. Try and 'feel' for an answer when you are confronted with a dilemma, don't 'think' about it.

For example - there are a lot of people in my area that hitch-hike. When I am driving towards them I will let my intuition be the judge as to who I pick up and don't let my minds interpretation of their physical appearance corrupt that judgement.

Thanks Pilot

reply to post by nimbinned


I think I know how I would respond in certain situations but it is probably the idealized version of who I would like to be. If I saw someone attacking a weaker person, I think I would intervene but don't know for sure...

This is happening on a large scale all around us. The system we've built, or just played along with, is rife with injustice. I can do small things to counter what injustice I see and I think it is incumbent upon me to do so. Otherwise I'm part of the problem. Lash's critique of "turning the other cheek" is valid. Letting God (karma) work everything out in the end can be construed as a control mechanism that benefits only those who would be slapping people around in the first place. The very idea of loving your enemies (those who do you harm) does not stop them from harming you or others, but gives them the freedom to carry on while your reward is to feel morally superior. No thanks. He call this the "victim/perpetrator complex." It's a dynamic set in motion by patriarchy and is destroying the planet. If you haven't read his books, I hope you won't base your opinion on that radio interview. If you have and disagree on his premise for other reasons, forgive me. I enjoy our chat.

Originally posted by Infi8nity
If Government wear to make such laws they would be admitting that there is "reality" beyond the physical and would lose control of the masses. The family's witch control the worlds nations, dare I say Aliens (blood lines of the "Gods") have kept this knowledge from modern man in order to keep them under their control. Our true nature is spiritual. Thru out the time "line" a abundance of knowledge was slowly lost, destroyed by some one that did not want us to know the true potential of human beings. They did (do) this with 2 compartmentalized networks, Christianity and Science. Christianity will tell you that magic is evil and science will tell you its hokus pokus. 2 sides, one for left brained people and one for right brained people. This type of duality appears with in control systems allot.

A very knowledgeable statement. 100% accurate

u missed one group tho.. the balanced brain ppl. those who recognize at an early age that they should develop both their logic and creative brains to seek their highest potential. being able to use either for decision making, innovation and problem solving. These ppl.. see the flaws in science and what it will never achieve. as well as the flaws in church doctrine that will forever mislead the masses from discovering the truth. These are the ppl born and without much nudging are able to see that there is something terribly wrong with the world today and what we call society. how hypocritical it is. not that the bible doesnt have the truth in it. but when ppl rely on a church or science to tell them what to think. they follow a lizard down into a hole that will later be clogged and flooded over by an unrepentant tide.

Just like technology, magick is constantly improving and getting better. One day perhaps we might have magick where it is very flashy and powerful. Perhaps then, our laws will make mention of it or include it in their implementations. Until then, the average magick-user can get away with quite a bit. The situation is probably as simple as that. But in the mean time, depending on your route to Source; there is an inbuilt balance system of magick (including karma and whatnot) that ensures things don't get out of hand.

On a funny note, I wonder if this would ever imply to psychic/spiritual energy vampires; we've all dealt with them.