The Most Scandalous Thinkable: A Defense of France

Originally posted by Otts
As for Thomas Crowne... calling someone who has just started posting and has not attacked anyone personally an "arrogant traitor" is intimidation in my view. What better way, as a moderator, to send the message to said poster that his views are not welcome at ATS?

I agree with you Otts, and with Dr Funk.
I hadn't noticed that Thomas Crowne is a mdoerator (super moderator, no less, which makes this transgression UBER ugly)

Frankly, my impression of this site is changing rapidly.
I was initially very impressed with the civil tone of the discussions, and the pro-active moderation.
Now, I am finding that the moderators sometimes overstep their bounds, as in the present, disgraceful example, and that they are sometimes real sticklers over questionable rules.

For instance, I have been 'wrist-slapped' for making a one line post, despite the fact that sometimes, one line is all one has to say, and most of my posts are thoughtful and elaborate.
When I asked whether I should consider myself censored when all I have to say is a few words, or whether I should artificially flesh out my post, thus wasting bandwidth, I was ignored.
When I pointed out an example of a super moderator making a one line post, I was further ignored.

I'm disappointed. I had high hopes for this site. I hope the moderators in question pull themselves together and work to set higher standards than this.

U.

Originally posted by drfunk
I think the US will progress to Europe's level of thinking one day, but for now it still is an imperialist child, essentially where many European nations were a century ago and what took millions of lives around the world to change for the better. I hope it doesn't cost so many lives for america to grow up.

thanks,
drfunk

I share your fears and hopes, Dr Funk.

The signs of your analysis being on target are painfully visible.
The Bush Administration refers to the European nations that resist its imperialist policy of preemptive aggression as the 'Old Europe'.
And just as foolish youth compels some young people to, they threaten those European nations with becoming 'irrelevant dinosaurs' if they don't follow the trends set by America.

Even the philosophical choices of America match the analysis: as a nation which has fused its cultural identity with capitalism, throwing the vast bulk of our energies into what we seem to believe will be endless growth, we can be considered to still be in our 'growing up phase'. Adulthood, and the beginning of maturity is always marked by slowed growth, and the recognition that one is not invincible, and that the world does not revolve around one.
Like you said, I hope America grows up real fast. The military technology available to us, and the stakes of the current geopolitical situation make the perils of American geopolitical immaturity far more dangerous than the colonial powers of Europe were.

As a concrete example, the Bush Administration has put a lock on international proceedings to halt bio-weapon development, and has reversed the trend brougth to us by the end of the Cold War by stepping out of the Nuclear Testing ban and affirming its will to develop 'small' yield nuclear weaponry, a move which is certain to promote nuclear proliferation and start a new arms race.
We have also refused to sign treaties banning the militarization of space. This is one of the most naked indicators that America is now committed to trying to cement its stranglehold on global power. In the best position to place weaponry in orbit, the US is making a bid to control the entirety of the globe from the heavens, with the potential to strike anywhere on earth, within minutes.

Like I said, the stakes are high...

U.

This is the State Department's view of France, as of September 2004:

Source: www.state.gov...

Europe
France is a leader in Western Europe because of its size, location, strong economy, membership in European organizations, strong military posture, and energetic diplomacy. France generally has worked to strengthen the global economic and political influence of the EU and its role in common European defense. It views Franco-German cooperation and the development of a European Security and Defense Identity (ESDI) with other EU members, as the foundation of efforts to enhance European security.

Middle East Peace
France supports Quartet (US-EU-Russia-UN) efforts to implement the the Middle East Road Map. France supports the establishment of a Palestinian state and the withdrawal of Israel from all occupied territories. Recognizing the need for a comprehensive peace agreement, France supports the involvement of all Arab parties and Israel in a multilateral peace process. France has been active in promoting a regional economic dialogue and has played an active role in providing assistance to the Palestinian Authority. France opposed the use of force in Iraq in March 2003 and did not join the US-led coalition that liberated the country from the dictatorial rule of Saddam Hussein. France contributed in part to the 230 million euro EU contribution to Iraq reconstruction in 2003, and has suggested possible additional assistance, in the form of police training and debt relief, after formation of a sovereign Iraqi government.

Africa
France plays a significant role in Africa, especially in its former colonies, through extensive aid programs, commercial activities, military agreements, and cultural impact. In those former colonies where the French presence remains important, France contributes to political, military, and social stability. France maintains permanent military bases in Chad, Cote d�Ivoire, Djibouti, Gabon and Senegal. France deployed military forces to Cote d�Ivoire in 2002 and to Central African Republic in 2003 to address crisis in both countries and, with EU partners, led an international military operation to the Democratic Republic of the Congo in 2003.

Asia
France has extensive political and commercial relations with Asian countries, including China, Japan, and Southeast Asia as well as an increasing presence in regional fora. France is seeking to broaden its commercial presence in China and will pose a competitive challenge to U.S. business, particularly in aerospace, high-tech, and luxury markets. In Southeast Asia, France was an architect of the 1991 Paris Accords, which ended the conflict in Cambodia.

Latin America
France supports strengthening democratic institutions in Latin America. It endorses the ongoing efforts to restore democracy to Haiti and seeks to expand its trade relations with all of Latin America.

Security Issues
French military doctrine is based on the concepts of national independence, nuclear deterrence, and military sufficiency. France is a founding member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), and has worked actively with Allies to adapt NATO--internally and externally--to the post-Cold War environment. In December 1995, France announced that it would increase its participation in NATO's military wing, including the Military Committee (the French withdrew from NATO's military bodies in 1966 while remaining full participants in the alliance's political councils). France remains a firm supporter of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) and other efforts at cooperation.

Outside of NATO, France has actively and heavily participated in recent peacekeeping/coalition efforts in Africa, the Middle East, and the Balkans, often taking the lead in these operations. France has undertaken a major restructuring to develop a professional military that will be smaller, more rapidly deployable and better tailored for operations outside of mainland France. Key elements of the restructuring include reducing personnel, bases, and headquarters and rationalizing equipment and the armament industry. French active-duty military at the beginning of 2001 numbered about 437,573, of which nearly 39,000 were assigned outside of metropolitan France. France completed the move to all-professional armed forces when conscription ended on December 31, 2002.

France places a high priority on arms control and non-proliferation. After conducting a final series of six nuclear tests, the French signed the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty in 1996. France has implemented a moratorium on the production, export, and use of anti-personnel landmines and supports negotiations leading toward a universal ban. The French are key players in the adaptation of the Treaty on Conventional Armed Forces in Europe to the new strategic environment.

France is an active participant in the major supplier regimes designed to restrict transfer of technologies that could lead to proliferation of weapons of mass destruction: the Nuclear Suppliers Group, the Australia Group (for chemical and biological weapons), the Non-Proliferation Treaty, and the Missile Technology Control Regime. France participates actively in the Proliferation Security Initiative, and is engaged with the US, both bilaterally and at the IAEA and OPCW, to curb NBC proliferation from the DPRK, Iran, Libya and elsewhere. France has signed and ratified the Chemical Weapons Convention.

U.S.-FRENCH RELATIONS
Relations between the United States and France are active and cordial. Mutual visits by high-level officials are conducted frequently. Bilateral contact at the cabinet level has traditionally been active. France and the United States share common values and have parallel policies on most political, economic, and security issues. Differences are discussed frankly and have not generally been allowed to impair the pattern of close cooperation that characterizes relations between the two countries.


I have to say, hardly an enemy... or a nation of cowards.

France usually votes on the same side as the USA in the UN. There are lots of occasions when something proposed by the USA was approved with the votes of the USA, UK and France, and other cases of something that was proposed by another country and got the votes against from the USA, UK and France, so if France is an enemy I do not know what friends the USA have.

Originally posted by ArMaP
France usually votes on the same side as the USA in the UN. There are lots of occasions when something proposed by the USA was approved with the votes of the USA, UK and France, and other cases of something that was proposed by another country and got the votes against from the USA, UK and France, so if France is an enemy I do not know what friends the USA have.

Agreed.
But I think part of the point the France-haters are trying to get across is that they feel the USA does not need any friends.
The pride and over-confidence of youth...

U.

We hate them so bad we are shipping a buttload of weapons grade plutonium to them? Follow the money and watch the rats folks, if the news media wants us to hate france, then there is a real reason and we owe it to ourselves to find out why. I mean come on, renaming the french fry?