Ron Paul Doesn't Believe In Evolution

Originally posted by ElohimJD
Fact:

Gravity is a LAW and provable.
Evolution is a THEORY and improvable.

Both are a law and a theory. What we accept as the "law of gravity" is currently based on Einstein's Theory of General Relativity. The best evidence we have supports the theory of general relativity, but given that the nature of gravity is essentially tied to models of physics that, themselves, are still theories (including the Standard Model of particle physics), the way we understand gravity can, and probably will change as our understanding of the universe progresses.

In the case of evolution, it's a proven scientific fact that the process of evolution is constantly taking place within every living being. The part that evolution doesn't explain is the rapid and significant development of the human brain along with the emergence of consciousness. So until that part of us is adequately accounted for, evolution to explain humans is still a theory.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


Very well put. Succinct and to the point!

Originally posted by draco49
The part that evolution doesn't explain is the rapid and significant development of the human brain along with the emergence of consciousness. So until that part of us is adequately accounted for, evolution to explain humans is still a theory.

Could you provide evidence of this rapid an significant development exclusive to humans? Do you think 7 million years is rapid? 2.5 million years? All evidence suggests the brain slowly evolved and slowly increased size over the past 2.5 million years. It's also interesting to note that our ancient cousins, Neanderthals, had bigger average brain size than us, and roamed the earth from 400,000 - 80,000 or so years ago. Where is the rapid development?

Originally posted by Barcs

Originally posted by draco49
The part that evolution doesn't explain is the rapid and significant development of the human brain along with the emergence of consciousness. So until that part of us is adequately accounted for, evolution to explain humans is still a theory.

Could you provide evidence of this rapid an significant development exclusive to humans? Do you think 7 million years is rapid? 2.5 million years? All evidence suggests the brain slowly evolved and slowly increased size over the past 2.5 million years. It's also interesting to note that our ancient cousins, Neanderthals, had bigger average brain size than us, and roamed the earth from 400,000 - 80,000 or so years ago. Where is the rapid development?

The rapid development I'm talking about occurred a little over 200,000 years ago when homo sapiens emerged. When I said "brain size", I should have been more specific; I was speaking of the advancement of the frontal lobe, and Broca's Area. To correct you, homo sapiens and homo neanderthalensis emerged at nearly the same time; between 200,000 - 300,000 years ago. They simultaneously roamed the Earth until about 30,000 years ago when the neanderthalensis died off.

Evolutionarily speaking, homo neanderthalensis likely evolved from homo heidelbergensis, who lived from about 600,000 - 350,000 years ago. Given that homo sapiens and homo neanderthalensis emerged at approximately the same time (neanderthalensis had only been around for 75,000 - 100,000 years before sapiens), the evolution of the human brain (specifically the regions I mentioned above) would have had to occur, at the most, within a 350,000 year period (from the time heidelbergensis died out until the emergence of sapiens). The differences between heidelbergensis or even neanderthalensis, and sapiens are too great to be accounted for by evolution within that period of time.

As for references, let me Google that for you.

Originally posted by draco49
The rapid development I'm talking about occurred a little over 200,000 years ago when homo sapiens emerged. When I said "brain size", I should have been more specific; I was speaking of the advancement of the frontal lobe, and Broca's Area.

I'd prefer a source on this giving exact dimensions and time tables.

To correct you, homo sapiens and homo neanderthalensis emerged at nearly the same time; between 200,000 - 300,000 years ago. They simultaneously roamed the Earth until about 30,000 years ago when the neanderthalensis died off.

Sorry I have to correct you. Homo neanderthalensis appeared BEFORE homo sapiens in the fossil record. Yes, they are subspecies and were living cousins of homo sapiens who shared a common ancestor and they did breed together eventually, but there is still a 150,000 year difference from when Neanderthal emerged (around 400,000 years ago) and when Homo sapiens emerged (250,000 years ago). If you want to call that virtually the same time, then sure. I don't see that at all. I see a group migrated out of Africa and evolved into neanderthals. The ones who stayed EVENTUALLY became homo sapiens. It certainly didn't happen over night or at the same time.

Evolutionarily speaking, homo neanderthalensis likely evolved from homo heidelbergensis, who lived from about 600,000 - 350,000 years ago. Given that homo sapiens and homo neanderthalensis emerged at approximately the same time (neanderthalensis had only been around for 75,000 - 100,000 years before sapiens), the evolution of the human brain (specifically the regions I mentioned above) would have had to occur, at the most, within a 350,000 year period (from the time heidelbergensis died out until the emergence of sapiens). The differences between heidelbergensis or even neanderthalensis, and sapiens are too great to be accounted for by evolution within that period of time.

So your arguments is that the brain developed faster in homo sapiens than any other hominid ancestor? Sorry to rain on the parade, but the average brain size for Heidelbergensis was 1200cc. Comparatively Neanderthalensis was 1450 cc and homo sapien was 1350 cc. That is certainly not any more rapid than the difference between any other hominid. Even if you look at late homo erectus their brain size was 1100cc give or take.

Now even if this sudden change did happen, it wouldn't discount evolution. Evolution isn't on a time table. It just keeps happening and the environment dictates the speed. Sudden changes in environment lead to faster extinction and therefor evolution and emergence of new species.

As for references, let me Google that for you.

You gotta be kidding me. You use an insult based google search site to search for the broad term "human evolution" and expect me to search through all of that to find the specifics of what you are talking about? I am VERY familiar with human evolution, I just keep hearing claims of this alleged rapid change, which is just the same as most hominids change going back 2.5 million years.

Originally posted by CharlesMartel

Originally posted by stanguilles7


www.darwins-theory-of-evolution.com...

edit on 3-6-2012 by stanguilles7 because: (no reason given)

Which race is more evolved than the others or are they all evolved equally?

How could one 'race' of the same species be more evolved than another?

reply to post by Danbones


You assume too much. Here is a good response to supposed feathered dinosaurs.

Evolutionists Sees AiG as a Threat

reply to post by stanguilles7


There's not one. There's only the human race. it's the belief in a superior race that has fueled racism.

Originally posted by Barcs
Sorry I have to correct you. Homo neanderthalensis appeared BEFORE homo sapiens in the fossil record. Yes, they are subspecies and were living cousins of homo sapiens who shared a common ancestor and they did breed together eventually, but there is still a 150,000 year difference from when Neanderthal emerged (around 400,000 years ago) and when Homo sapiens emerged (250,000 years ago). If you want to call that virtually the same time, then sure. I don't see that at all. I see a group migrated out of Africa and evolved into neanderthals. The ones who stayed EVENTUALLY became homo sapiens. It certainly didn't happen over night or at the same time.

I stated that they emerged at nearly the same time, and I specified later in my response that neanderthalensis was here first (though my previous time references were a little off). Heidelbergensis dies off at the same time as neanderthalensis emerges, in the same regions; 350,000 years ago. 150,000 years pass before sapien emerges (200,000 years ago). They co-exist for 170,000 years, at which point neanderthalensis dies out (30,000 years ago).

So your arguments is that the brain developed faster in homo sapiens than any other hominid ancestor? Sorry to rain on the parade, but the average brain size for Heidelbergensis was 1200cc. Comparatively Neanderthalensis was 1450 cc and homo sapien was 1350 cc. That is certainly not any more rapid than the difference between any other hominid. Even if you look at late homo erectus their brain size was 1100cc give or take.

Now even if this sudden change did happen, it wouldn't discount evolution. Evolution isn't on a time table. It just keeps happening and the environment dictates the speed. Sudden changes in environment lead to faster extinction and therefor evolution and emergence of new species.

Again, I'm referring specifically to the development of the the frontal lobe (prefrontal cortex) as well as the key region of the brain responsible for language, specifically speech; Broca's area. I don't have the exact citations providing an exact time-line of their respective development progressions at hand, but I will provide them here shortly; as soon as I go through my references. I hear what you're saying about evolution not being on a static timeframe, that environmental factors influence its rate and extent. Also, I want to clarify that I never said or meant to imply that any of this "discounts" evolution. Evolution is a proven, demonstrable phenomena throughout the natural world and I think it accounts for 99% of the "human story". I am not sufficiently satisfied that evolution, on its own, explains, what I see as the rapid emergence of human consciousness (marked by the advancement of the prefrontal cortext, and language centers in the brain). Since I don't have those citations handy, I'll hold off on saying anything else until I post them later tonight.

You gotta be kidding me. You use an insult based google search site to search for the broad term "human evolution" and expect me to search through all of that to find the specifics of what you are talking about? I am VERY familiar with human evolution, I just keep hearing claims of this alleged rapid change, which is just the same as most hominids change going back 2.5 million years.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to come off as insulting or patronizing. I will go through my references and post specifics and citations related to the development of the prefrontal cortex and language centers, hopefully illustrating what I'm talking about.

reply to post by Danbones


God made planets go anti-clock wise to make evolution look stupid.