Secular Researchers' Findings that UFO Activity is Not Extraterrestrial in Origin

reply to post by SaturnFX


That's good, I'm going to believe in all the gods now and maybe I will be like Switzerland

reply to post by schuyler


First I do not know what your comment means by going all "demonic on us". I am a Christian, so I will call inter-dimensional beings demonic. That is the language I use, if my wording offends you simply change demonic to "interdimensional spirit being"... And in fact I tried to use as little biblical terminology as possible, as I know most UFO enthusiasts here are likely to be non-believers. Secondly the bible is not a mythical book, so as you are making the claim, that is your burden of proof. Lastly all I have tried to point out is the strong and undeniable connection between the occult/paranormal with the UFO phenomena. I have pointed out the connections, and all you have done is used a ad hominem attack against me, you cannot explain the facts I have presented to you because of your own ignorance which limits your reasoning.

reply to post by SaturnFX

Originally posted by SaturnFX
..me saying Jesus Christ to an alien is the same as me saying strawberry snowflakes...the intention of the word is anxiety of feeling out of control and agitated, seeking help due to feeling profoundly helpless.

As an atheist it would likely have little to no affect. But as a believer in Christ if a person is under demonic attack calling on the lords name does work. As their have even been over 100 or so documented cases of it working in alien abductions.

The Evidence

Coincidence? I think not. The Lords name has authority when used by a believer.

"Aliens" must submit to this authority.

Actually we can't prove we exist because we would need an outside observer to independently validate our existence. I can't prove any of you exist because I didn't see you write your posts, you could all be webbots. It's highly unlikely that you do exist because the odds of a universe being created that could sustain life are incredible small. The odds of anything existing are near impossible.

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Originally posted by SaturnFX
..me saying Jesus Christ to an alien is the same as me saying strawberry snowflakes...the intention of the word is anxiety of feeling out of control and agitated, seeking help due to feeling profoundly helpless.

As an atheist it would likely have little to no affect. But as a believer in Christ if a person is under demonic attack calling on the lords name does work. As their have even been over 100 or so documented cases of it working in alien abductions.

The Evidence

Coincidence? I think not. The Lords name has authority when used by a believer.

"Aliens" must submit to this authority.

edit on 29-5-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)

Or, such things would simply stop by me saying stop.
I am master of my own destiny...I look after myself..so my word is my authority
?
100 documented cases of it working on aliens..but how many documented cases of alien abductions are there? tens of thousands? millions throughout time? 100 doesn't seem like much...and lets also keep mind mind things like dreams, delusions, etc...a crazy person screaming jesus christ at their kids during some major delusion of little gray people may freak their kids out enough to run away.

Time for a bit of rational thought.

reply to post by SaturnFX


I believe in a Young Universe and a 6 day creation. Believing in a 6000 year old or so earth does not make me crazy or brainwashed. After studying for many years I believe in creation science.

basically, if you believe the universe is 6 billion years old, then there is no need to continue debating...you already live in a fantasy, so of course discussions of technology and advanced civilizations/physics won't make sense in your world view.

See why ad hominem attacks do not work? they can easily be switched back to the person issuing the insults.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Apparently with the 350 people they have interviewed about their abduction experience. The words "stop" krishna buddha and Muhammad did not work. Only the power and authority of Jesus Christ stopped their abduction. Take a listen to some of the audio testimonies. This is great witness to the truth that is only found in our risen Lord that Jesus is the only true and living savior.

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

I believe in a Young Universe and a 6 day creation. Believing in a 6000 year old or so earth does not make me crazy or brainwashed. After studying for many years I believe in creation science.

creation and science...two words that should never be put in the same sentence.

basically, if you believe the universe is 6 billion years old, then there is no need to continue debating...you already live in a fantasy, so of course discussions of technology and advanced civilizations/physics won't make sense in your world view.

Actually, a very old universe allows for all sorts of advanced civs and such..what you said there is completely opposite of any rational thought
like saying if you believe in cooking, then you can't understand the concept of ingredients.
Your desire to try and dismiss it through reversing what I said just made you sound rediculous.

You say its basically improbable for a civilization outside of our own to advance through evolution in 6000 years,...I agree for the most part...but you take this as evidence that there is none..whereas I see it as just a tiny tiny scrap of evidence more to prove the universe isn't so young..toss that on the everest style mountain of evidence pointing to a multi-billion year old universe.

Finally...6000 year old universe
google: Fossil
buy one
smack your head on it until you understand it is real

See why ad hominem attacks do not work? they can easily be switched back to the person issuing the insults.

potentially, but you failed to switch it back..actually, you furthered the original..well done.

You think UFOs are demons..ok, thats nice. your a fundy, you think everything is a demon...if anyone wants a super simple way of viewing the world, I recommend a religion to them also..
Your issue is, your trying to turn the super simple view of the world and wanting complexity out of it..but demand on keeping the simplistic view. At least the more complex types suggest a day for god is like a billion years or something...you literally believe a couple million days ago the entire universe popped into existance...

Tell me
Why was it 6000 years ago and not 87 years ago? What evidence is there of that verses 87 years ago?

reply to post by RevelationGeneration

Travelling from a nearby star system at more realistic speeds than the speed of light, say the speeds that our own space rockets travel if UFOs were to travel 1 million miles a day it would take them 70, 000 years to travel to earth.

According to Earth Third Dimensional Physics, yes, but what if ET is of a much higher vibration, and Earth based physics do not apply to them? I once asked one of my own contacts how long a trip took in Earth time. The answer was 20 Earth days.

Then there is the question of energy. It is estimated that a space ship, carrying ten people, and travelling 5 light years to and from a nearby star system at 70% of the speed of light would consume 500, 000 times the amount of energy consumed in the U. S. in one year!

Again, you are thinking only as an Earthling can.

There are 118 known chemical elements as of 2011.First element on the periodic table is Hydrogen the latest one is Ununoctium.

source
I know the Atmosphere Craft use Gravity Accelerators, these project a field of gravity in any direction, and the craft just follows the gravity field, as it would naturally in an Earth atmosphere. I can only assume the big interstellar craft use similar technology, but I am guessing here. They may have tech that is way above my understanding, and even that of Earth science.

But at near light speed, it will smash into them with devastating results.

Easily solved with a projected force field generator, Earth scientists are even now working on such technology, and may have already perfected it.

As we have seen, records of lights in the sky can be traced back thousands of years but talk of alien abductions appears to be very much a product of the modern age.

Not so.
Enoch was "taken up" by God. He didn't die, but was "taken up." The Book of Jude QUOTES from the Book of Enoch, which is a Book considered to be in the Apocrypha. I remember reading a story involving Jeremiah, I believe, where Jeremiah sent a boy to collect some figs, and the boy was gone for more that 40 years. I cannot remember where it is, and am not inclined to read the book of Jeremiah to find out.

The first well-publicized case was that of Antonio Villas-Boas, a 23-year-old Brazilian farmer who claimed to have been abducted while working on a farm in 1957. He described his abductors as humanoid, 1.5m (5ft) tall with small blue eyes, wearing grey coveralls and helmets. He claimed to have been seduced by a female extraterrestrial during the encounter.

The first popular incident in the USA came in 1961, with the story of Betty and Barney Hill. The couple claimed that on a return trip from Canada they were abducted by extraterrestrials in New Hampshire's White Mountains. Their story was widely reported and featured in books such as Interrupted Journey...
(snip)
In 1988, novelist Whitley Strieber published a book called Communion: A True Story in which he described being abducted from his New York home. Strieber went on to document additional abduction claims, and is credited with defining the stereotypical alien abductor. He categorized the aliens into four types, the dominant group being the now-infamous "Grays" (depicted on the book's front cover).

The abduction phenomena received a boost in 1994 with the publication of a book called Abduction: Human Encounters with Aliens. The book was written by John E. Mack, M.D. (1929-2004), professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School and Pulitzer prize-winning author. In it, Mack related a number of abduction stories told to him by patients. In a highly unusual move for a psychiatrist, Mack gave these stories credibility and suggested they could be based on real events. In a subsequent booked entitled Passport to the Cosmos: Human Transformation and Alien Encounters, Mack expanded his abduction hypothesis to include the involvement of God and messages of divine hope.

Despite widespread criticism of Mack's conclusions3, the fact that such a respected authority was taking abduction seriously helped sustain a growing subculture concerned with the actions and motivations of extraterrestrials.

www.paranormal-encyclopedia.com...
what you said is true, to a point, The UFOs showed up in force after the US exploded Atom, and Hydrogen devices. I reckon they wish to ensure this does not happen again. Research "Mystery Ships of the 1800s." This is not exactly a new thing

reply to post by SaturnFX

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Actually, a very old universe allows for all sorts of advanced civs and such..what you said there is completely opposite of any rational thought

Doesn't make it true though does it? Fantasy is not the same as reality.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
You say its basically improbable for a civilization outside of our own to advance through evolution in 6000 years,...I agree for the most part...but you take this as evidence that there is none..whereas I see it as just a tiny tiny scrap of evidence more to prove the universe isn't so young..toss that on the everest style mountain of evidence pointing to a multi-billion year old universe.

I was not using that as my main point against extraterrestrial life. In fact I don't expect people who believe in evolution to. It was just something I thought of. So just another tiny scrap of evidence against extraterrestrial life.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Finally...6000 year old universe
google: Fossil
buy one
smack your head on it until you understand it is real

So do these so called fossils come out the ground with a label on them saying "million years old"? Or did a certain group of people using fallible human technology make them up...

Originally posted by SaturnFX
ok, thats nice. your a fundy, you think everything is a demon...if anyone wants a super simple way of viewing the world,

Not at all, by that I can clearly tell you missed the whole point of my thread.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


Do muslims even get abducted?
And why would a muslim call out for muhammed? he was just a prophet..they would likely call out for god (allah).

But its nice to see christians are pretty exclusive in their desire to create a demon class (again). Of course they would. the concept of a race of beings outside of earth would go against their literal understanding of the bible...so the motivation of some would be to dismiss this talk verses do proper investigations into it...don't fully understand? must be demons then.


Anyhow, lets discuss the bible for a split second.
Moses: lead by these demonic ufos
Ezikel: went up to a UFO
Jesus, ascended into heaven (the heavens/abductions)
So..there you go...they are clearly angels according to the bible..fallen angels would be..fallen..aka, not in the sky but rather earthbound, no?

Do you really need to look up at misidentified satellites and weather ballons to find demons? I see plenty here on earth and in control...
putting my nonsense cap on..it would make sense for demons to try and decieve people into thinking aliens/angels were the bad guys...would even make movies on them coming to eat our brains or whatever just to trigger pop culture fear of em verses follow what the people in the bible did with em (which was follow and join them)

Problem with the bible, you can get whatever you want out of there..be it they are demons, or angels...
How bout this
If we live in the time when they pop on over for a chat..we judge them based on their actions towards us verses have a predisposition based on unproven accounts going both ways by some of the crazier folks of society to begin with. Seems the most reasonable stand on the subject...hold judgement until they are here to defend themselves from the accusations of others.

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by schuyler
I can understand that "aliens" may very well be inter/intra-dimensional beings. I can also see that "space travel" , i.e." Faster than Light" travel may not be used at all. Your quotes would seem to substantiate that other people, including Arthur C. Clarke and Jacques Valle, have entertained similar conclusions.

But then you go all demonic on us. And when people point out some of these demonic fallacies of yours you get all argumentative and surly. The fact is that you don't have proof #1 of the demonic/religious side of your argument.

The words "demon" and "interdimensional" are two words describing the same thing, like the words "soccer" and "futbol".

I think not. First of all, one is a noun and the other is an adjective, so you are wrong from the get go. They cannot possibly be synonyms like the two nouns, soccer and football. You are comparing apples and oranges.

"Demon" is a religious concept referring to Bad Guys(tm), beings other than Homo sapiens who are up to no good. "Interdimensional" refers to a theory that the structure of the universe involves more than one spatial plane and that they may interact with one another. A dimension is not alive or a being; it's a place, like the one we live in. Since our science cannot yet discuss interdimensions with any clarity, we have to resort to philosophy or metaphysics to discuss it.

"Interdimensional beings" are simply beings that have learned how to traverse between these theoretical dimensions much as we have learned to fly through the air. Accusing these beings of being demonic because they can do this makes as much sense as suggesting pilots use witchcraft to enable them to fly through the air. To invoke Arthur C. Clarke again, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistuinguishable from magic."

Seems to me we have two choices. One is to take the primitive approach and claim anything we don't understand must be the result of demonic forces. This is an ignorant approach and it won't get us anywhere.

The second approach is to realize that we have sufficient observations to know there is something interdimensional about our universe and it looks like some beings have figured out how to traverse them. If they can do it, so can we. We just have to figure it out. We first have to figure out the underlying theory that would accommodate our observations, then we have to build the technology to do it ourselves. That's how science advances.

If there are extraterrestrial beings out there, who's to say that they haven't overcome the speed of light problem? Who's to say that they don't have technology that we can't even fathom? Jeez, if we could travel back 100 years from now and show our ancestors the technology that we have, they'd think we were from a different world. Just imagine a civilization who is 1000's or 100s of thousands of years ahead of us.

They may have technology that they can use to detect life-inhabited planets. They may have technology that they can use that would bypass space travel. Who knows?

But, maybe it is actually demons or fallen angels. Where did they get their technology? Where did they build their spaceships that have supposedly crashed here? Do they have spaceship-building factories where they are from? Do they mine the minerals that they use to build these ships?

Also, I'm curious to learn more about these "powers" people have received by these beings. Telekinesis should be an easy one to prove. I'd like to see that.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration

If these really are Aliens using tech as you claim, why is it people have been able to terminate there abduction experience by calling the name and authority of Jesus Christ.

That is not what the majority of abductees say, in fact, some say they are answered with, "there is only us up here." When I was taken the first time in 1984, in West Texas, I could not speak, or act, and had no memory at all of the experience after. If I did protest, that memory is gone, and even regression therapy failed to regain the lost time, over 6 hours. I developed a lot of health problems after that. The other times I was not treated like an experiment, but like a student, and a friend. I have come to realize there are at least 18 different species watching Earth right now. They want to see what we will do. These are in a slightly higher vibration, and we of course cannot see them. There are three species of Grays, and one has a sinister agenda. And if you think these are Demons, research the origin of the word, it came from the Greek, which was probably the Romans, after all.

Originally posted by AlchemicalMonocular
How does Jesus stand on liars, thieves and plagiarizers?

If you go by the Book, he forgives them if they repent. But you can never be too sure. If you're a moneylender doing business in the Temple, he'll sock you out.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration

I believe in a Young Universe and a 6 day creation. Believing in a 6000 year old or so earth does not make me crazy or brainwashed. After studying for many years I believe in creation science.

I know, and that is why I feel sorry for you, you poor, young soul. You have much to learn. There have been civilizations on Earth alone for 15 million years or more. It took longer that 6000 years for the Grand Canyon to form, or for the Mississippi River to make her bed. Where do Christians get this idea?

Well, here is my thing on this whole subject.
Back in the 80s, when heavy metal was going through is hair days and uber popularity, I had to listen to people claiming metal was some sort of demon conduite. people saying they got possessed by demons after listening to (insert metal name)'s music here and how by calling out for Jesus saved them, etc...the "proof" that heavy metal rock was in fact a tool for satan.

Its just more horsepoop coming from the wacky fringe taking anything in pop culture for themselves as some sort of recruitment drive.

in 30 years, something new will be the fad..maybe it will be a new music, or television show..something trendy, and the fundy nuts will cling onto it in order to stay relevant..saying its demonic, have people claiming possession or demonic presence and how jesus saved them, so everyone whom is interested in this subject needs to go to church

its marketing. guerrilla marketing...hey, like this, then your going to love the competition for your time..

You don't hear much about the horrors of metal lately..not that there is no more metal music mind you, its just the pop culture has moved on from it...and with the popular interest in space (video games, television shows), of course the sudden rise in jesus saved me from ET stories are on the rise...

utter transparent nonsense...go back to discussing the evils of heavy metal...you lot forgot about that...plenty of metalheads are in moral peril from your lack of focus.

I feel sort of bad for the people whom truely buy into this..in a couple decades, they will be quite frustrated when the marketing shifts to a new trend and abandons their angle they totally bought into. I wonder if they will have a faith crisis, or just follow the trends with them.

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by Druscilla

 

You may not care, others do. I think by replying to my topic you do care but thats beside the point.

Nothing what I have brought here is speculation, but rather 100% fact.

Talking about fallacies lets take a look at some... You have already made the assumption, that for us to ever know what these things are, a "nuts and bolt" spaceship must land on the whitehouse lawn and little green men must come out. This is an logical fallacy because such craft do not exist as interstellar travel is clearly and obviously not possible as originally shown in my second post. Interstellar travel is a more than a joke. In-fact anyone who wants to hold to that view is more at odd's with the facts then people like me who claim they are interdimensional beings, atleast we have documented evidence to make an hypothesis. What documented evidence do interstellar travel people have? Nothing but assumptions based on the eye candy of the film industry.

actually it's all speculation, we still havent proved that there is any UFO phenoma. we may all, including myself, just be insane.

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
I believe in a Young Universe and a 6 day creation. Believing in a 6000 year old or so earth does not make me crazy or brainwashed. After studying for many years I believe in creation science.

If you believe in a young universe, then you also have to believe that when we see a star, that exists at 250 million light years away, to go supernova, it takes less than 6000 years for that change of light to reach us. That means that light travels much, much, much faster than the speed at which Einstein calculated.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by RevelationGeneration

 

I believe in a Young Universe and a 6 day creation. Believing in a 6000 year old or so earth does not make me crazy or brainwashed. After studying for many years I believe in creation science.

I know, and that is why I feel sorry for you, you poor, young soul. You have much to learn. There have been civilizations on Earth alone for 15 million years or more. It took longer that 6000 years for the Grand Canyon to form, or for the Mississippi River to make her bed. Where do Christians get this idea?

they're idiot dudes. lol. really they don't even notice that gensis is just a history book thats been condensed into a short story. i think if moses would of got the information right you'd see the creation story mirror our idea of evolution