Religious Muslims drives me crazy!

I guess you just have bad types there, here in Canada, i know Muslims, and Hindus(mostly vegans), and they are okay with me eating meat in front of them, even pork. As long as they are not eating no harm done. like i said, you just have the FoBs there.

reply to post by luciddream


Yea they are mostly 2 to 3 years here from their country.

Originally posted by seagull
All two hundred Muslims that you know are like that?

I know quite a few Muslims here in the States, and none, not one, has even remotely attempted to either 1)convert me. 2) beat me.

Stereotyping a bit, aren't you?

Muslims in the States are just not comparable to European muslim immigrants, simply due to the difference in distance and cost of immigration between Europe and America, which acts as a great filter. You mainly get the top from the muslim lands, when it comes to class, education and westernization. Europe does not.

Hi - this is the first post I have replied to and one I feel relatively strongly about; I'm a British female born and bred in UK and married a Muslim Arab man 10 years ago. Two years ago we moved to live in the Middle East where he was born and bred.
I therefore live and am fully immersed in Muslim culture despite being of no particular religion myself ( but leaning towards Christian beliefs). I have to say I have never, not once been persuaded to convert to Islam, or shown any disrespect for not been Muslim. My closest friends are Muslim and they are just regular people bringing up their families. Some of them are stricter than others but we just 'get on with it' and what I do is not their business and vice versa. If they dont drink alcohol then I don't drink it when I'm at their house, obviously but if we are out, it's my own business if I drink, as long as I don't pressurise them to do the same! There are shops here that sell pork ( bacon, sausage etc) to those who want to eat it and stores where you can buy alcohol. You can also drink in bars and hotels, just not in the street, which I prefer anyway!

I think the country I live in is a great example of religious and cultural tolerance and diversity.

My husband's family are quite strict and traditional Muslims but they accept I am from a different culture and think and do things differently in certain parts of my life - I guess none of us try to force our opinions on each
other and co-exist quite happily!

I could guess that the Muslim people the OP socialises with could be attempting to cling to their culture and beliefs, maybe a ittle over zealously, as a form of security, being in a foreign country etc. Or some people are just like that but I hope my experiences show that not all Muslims are that way Text

reply to post by Lovely1973


Welcome to ATS. Very nice first post.

Muslims, save for a small minority of brain dead idiots, practice a live and let live attitude. Just as, save for a few brain dead idiots, most other religions do.

Originally posted by asen_y2k
Ok, I live and study in Europe, and most of the foreign students include Arabs and quite a few of them are my friends. Otherwise they are ok people to be with, just not the type you can sit down with and have some fun.

I have a few Muslim friends.

Roll with the punches, I do. To each their own. Don't let that get in the way of true friendship otherwise you are not their friends but acquaintances.

There is an old saying you can take the muslim out of mecca but you can't take mecca out of muslims,

Being a true friend is being tolerant of ones differences and of course that works both ways.

Im in the US.. within my lifetime and the things I have been involved in over the yrs, I have been exposed to a lot of things and cultures and people. The MAJORITY of Muslims are alright but there is a segment that are the most intolerant people I have ever met.. they are the new converts and the zealots. Thank goodness I have met very FEW of that type, but they do exist.

I will also attest to the fact that Europeans DO get a lot more of the zealot types as we encountered that several times.. mainly in London. Completely intolerant and offensive in their intolerance of complete strangers who actually live in the country. It was almost as if they plainly refused to acclimate and demanded that they be allowed to do whatever they wanted with no concern for anyone around them. There were more of this type in Europe for sure and it wasnt like we were on vacation, my husband I lived in London for over a year. Other muslims who were moderate and decided to acclimate and succeed were even bashed by the zealot types. I met NO hardliner Indians.. they were fantastic. The funny thing is that we have ties to Iran ( husbands ex wife is Iranian) and they were simply wonderful. They were Muslim and treated me wonderfully. I believe what I experienced with them and their family and friends were true representations of Islam.

I guess like all things and all religions.. there is a segment that are intolerant of everything. Sort of like the Muslim equivalent of the type of Xtian who goes to westboro or the FLDS or the people right here on ATS that obsess on sexuality and how God hates homosexuality... pretty much dwelling on it in a weird unhealthy way lately.

Originally posted by asen_y2k
reply to post by phishyblankwaters

 

No it's just that I don't see this from other communities. My Hindu friends never say anything when I eat beef with them at the same table.

And I bet your vegan friend won't try to convert you. My point is all these from the same person, who try to force their opinion on me, I am not trying to convert them to agnostic believes.

edit on 23/5/12 by asen_y2k because: (no reason given)

Well i was agnostic till a little over a year ago, i was pushed off the fence to christianity after i had a revelation on who God is. Got people swinging from every tree into a new tree all the time, it's crazy. If they bother you, don't eat with them or associate with them. Nothing wrong with having a beer or a glass of wine, Yeshua (Jesus Christ) drank wine so if they want to laugh at you for that just tell them Jesus drank wine too (all jews in that time period did), they will probably think you're lying but it's true.

Too late in the evening for me to enjoy a beer or i would. It gets pretty hot where i live in the summer and a malt beverage certainly hits the spot when it does.

Originally posted by asen_y2k
reply to post by faryjay

 

No, it's was more like once beer, few days back for the agnostic comment, today for pepperoni pizza?

Wait...so in the span of 3 outings (once for beer, once the agnostic comment and yesterday about pizza) you met, interacted and formed opinions and judgements on 200 muslims?

That...seems a bit odd.

You know what creeps me out and drives me crazy..
Your avatar.

Is that you on the pic ?
Because if it is you, I also would probably want to try to beat you.

Half-joking ( Choose what half )

Originally posted by luciddream
I guess you just have bad types there, here in Canada, i know Muslims, and Hindus(mostly vegans), and they are okay with me eating meat in front of them, even pork. As long as they are not eating no harm done. like i said, you just have the FoBs there.

I'm a young guy, most of my Hindu mates are under 30. We do it all, it's all good, Meat, Alcohol, all fine. Some even eat beef, whist I don't.

Originally posted by neo96
There is an old saying you can take the muslim out of mecca but you can't take mecca out of muslims,

Being a true friend is being tolerant of ones differences and of course that works both ways.

I would refrain from generalizations. Some are quite cool. I've found Shias to be extremely liberal and very secure in their own faith. These are the types who will never convert you, who will immerse into any culture they get into and just have fun. Again this is just my experience. I'm not generalizing.

reply to post by facelift

That's NOT the issue...the issue is you continue to do things around people that make them uncomfortable - remember, you are the minority in that group.

But that is exactly the same as 'the Muslims' the OP is talking about.....they have moved to another country and refused to adapt and continue doing things that make other people around them uncomfortable, they are the minority

Either adapt or stop hanging with them...

So should they, 'the Muslim' either adapt to Germany or move away?

Why one set of standards for one group and another for the OP?

reply to post by seagull

All two hundred Muslims that you know are like that?

Surely the OP can only speak as he finds - would you have him lie about his experiences just because they are uncomfortable for some?

I know quite a few Muslims here in the States, and none, not one, has even remotely attempted to either 1)convert me. 2) beat me.

And you can only speak from your experiences - doesn't make either statement less true.

Stereotyping a bit, aren't you?

If a person's personal experiences merely reinforce a stereotype does it make it any less true?

Should the OP remain quiet and not mention his expriences just because it doesn't fit into the PC viewpoint or is contrary to other's experiences etc?

Of course not, and it doesn't make what he has posted any less valid or true than those like yourself whose interactions with Muslims has been all peaches and cream.

reply to post by faryjay

See, now you're getting to know Muslims who don't care what you do as long as I'm not having what you have

Your World suddenly is now a better place

You know something, the world would be a far better place if more people had the same sort of attitude as you, be they Muslim, Christian, Agnostic, Hindu or whatever belief system anyone cares to mention......far too many people seek to impose their beliefs, values and standards etc on other people one way or another.

reply to post by Lovely1973


Excellent first post I must say.

Can I just ask; whereabouts in the Middle East have you moved to - by what you have said in your post it does seem to be one of the more liberal and tolerant countries.

And at what sort of social level do you live and are your in-laws?
My experiences and understanding is that the some of the more wealthy and educated tend to be a bit more tolerant and less strict in their observance of certain Islamic teachings.
I could easily be wrong and I also would understand if you felt uncomfortable about answering those questions.

About half of them were born in various Muslim countries such as Yemen, Algeria, and Egypt, and as adults immigrated here.

The rest are either born here in the States, or in Europe somewhere.

All are deeply religious, but seem to like me well enough. ...and I'm neither Christian, Muslim, nor Jewish, though I do believe in God; no attempts to convert. Though I'm a bit more sensitive to their religious rules than you seem to be. I don't drink alcohol of any sort around them, not pig out on pig. I doubt they'd be horribly offended if I did, though. I might get the wrinkled yuck face, but that's about it.

reply to post by Freeborn


It could very well be true... and probably is. But hyperbole could also be playing a roll, don't you agree?

With a world population of Muslims as large as it is, 200 is hardly indicative of a majority. Reinforcing a false stereotype is useful how?

My own experiences with friends, and others that I've met would seem to contradict his statements. Though I have met Muslims who do indeed fit into his mold. But most do not.

Uncomfortable? Why? I fully realize that there are Muslims who would do exactly what he describes. As with any group, there are always those who give the others within the group a bad name.

Originally posted by asen_y2k
reply to post by faryjay

 

The people you know, how long have they been in your country. I am with Arabs who arrived recently, anywhere from a year to 3 years from their own country.

edit on 23/5/12 by asen_y2k because: (no reason given)

You have to understand that Islam is more than just a religion. It encompasses everything about their life! What you have to think about is how they were raised and what "structure" they come from. Read these Islamic laws the entire way through and you will realize that they embrace religious theocracy throughout theri life. When you are raised in and indoctrinated into this system that system is ingrained into you. They are a dictorial religion when they come from a theocratic culture.

Islamic Law

reply to post by Freeborn



But that is exactly the same as 'the Muslims' the OP is talking about.....they have moved to another country and refused to adapt and continue doing things that make other people around them uncomfortable, they are the minority





From OP:

Ok I am not a native of this country...

Your attention to detail is quite profound...I commented on his situation, and the group of friends are the majority, as he pointed that out himself.


Why one set of standards for one group and another for the OP?


Once again, he chose to hang with them and then complained...you really don't get it do you..? I'm not commenting on the macro issue, I was commenting on HIS situation.


Let me know if that doesn't sink in, and we can go from there...

reply to post by seagull

It could very well be true... and probably is. But hyperbole could also be playing a roll, don't you agree?

Of course hyperbole could be a possibility.
But it could be a possibility on almost every post on this site.

Is there any specific reason you suspect hyperbole or is it just that the OP's experiences are different to your's?

With a world population of Muslims as large as it is, 200 is hardly indicative of a majority.

You are correct, but it's still a fairly large sample and if they are the only Muslims he has met then on what other basis is he to form a judgement?
I bet the vast majority of members here on ATS have never met anything like 200 Muslims.

Reinforcing a false stereotype is useful how?

Again, if they are the only Muslims he knows then surely it is reasonable to assume that there is at least an element of truth in the sterotype.

My own experiences with friends, and others that I've met would seem to contradict his statements. Though I have met Muslims who do indeed fit into his mold. But most do not.

I've met many Muslims - would hate to try and put a figure on exactly how many - enough to know that most Muslims just want to be left alone to live their lives as they see fit.

If I was the OP I would simply tell his friends that they are quite free to go and eat and relax somewhere that sells Halal food and doesn't serve alcohol - if they choose to come into an establishment that sells pork, bacon etc and serves alcohol then they shouldn't be either surprised or offended if someone purchases anything of the sort.
Pretty straight forward really.

Unfortunately there are far too many people, regardless of race or creed, who seek to impose their morals and values on other's.

Uncomfortable? Why? I fully realize that there are Muslims who would do exactly what he describes. As with any group, there are always those who give the others within the group a bad name.

Here in the UK, at least judging by my own experiences, there seems to be a disproportionate amount of Muslims who demand that their religious and cultural beliefs and practices are respected whilst they fail to offer the same respect to other's beliefs and practices.

And yes, the views and experiences of the OP are uncomfortable to some, not necessarily you.

Originally posted by facelift
reply to post by asen_y2k

 

Who ever says Muslims are open minded


That's NOT the issue...the issue is you continue to do things around people that make them uncomfortable - remember, you are the minority in that group.


Either adapt or stop hanging with them...


BTW - what are you studying..? It sure isn't Sociology...

In other words, he should give in to them and stop doing what he wants? Give up his freedom of choice? How about they adapt? No, that's crazy talk!

/TOA