Clegg: Social mobility vital for UK economic growth

reply to post by Freeborn


This article points out that the OECD found that UK has the worst social mobility in Western countries.

This study by the London School of Economics found that the USA and the UK have about the same low level of social mobility. Social mobility in the UK has been falling since 1958.

Interestingly, the LSE study states that one reason is that a higher family income allows people to stay in education.

The report also states

"the 1990s was characterized by a narrowing in the gap between the staying on rates at 16 between rich and poor children, but a further widening in the inequality of access to higher education."

LSE study

This article based on a study by the Sutton Trust charity states that the divide starts in the first year at primary. Kids from better off backgrounds (or at least with better educated parents) are a year ahead of their poorer classmates.

Apparently this is the biggest gap everywhere except in the USA.


What does it all mean?

If the studies are to be believed, it appears that education is still a good predictor of earnings but the disadvantage the poor suffer starts before school due to their own parents being less well educated. The better off can also afford to put their child through higher education, while the poor cannot.

Manufacturing and exporting is the only way we can pull ourselves out of the recession, and its been said by Vince cable however he jacked up the prices of royal mail by 80% this year and shot himself in the foot.

For me to send a package to the UK last month was £1.50, now its £2.70
For me to send a package to USA last month is was £2.50 now its £3.40
To send a hooded jumper to America costs £12 postage using royal mail and thats not even encluding tracking or signature required before it was £8.
To send 1.4kgs (a bag and a half of sugar) to America costs £20.

Can anyone explain to me with prices this high to export any produce, how is the market supposed to grow?

The man incharge wanting small business to grow and to help export our way out of the recession but he is directly keeping us in it...........

They know what they are doing, they know they are squeezing every penny they can from us, but we lost our backbone years ago.......

politicians dont think long-term, they only think about their term.

reply to post by 4hero


The Term I hate in the press is the Number Ten! Have you noticed how much you will hear it on British TV or open any newspaper and every page seems to have that number? Even on here lots of Ten's. Everywhere on the internet as well.

Four is another number i hate to see shown. Very rarely put as Number Four - usually shown in the background somewhere i.e 4 rings on an audi car, 4 railings.

Now which group loves numbers....mmmmmm.... oh yes, the Nazi's. So the 4 would stand for the Fourth Reich and ten would be ???

This might seem off post - but really it will the most important post you will have read in a long time.
Look for the numbers

It looks like Vince Cable has picked his fight or perhaps a fight has picked him?

He seems to have antagonised Adrian Beecroft, the author of a government sponsored report of employment law.

www.bbc.co.uk...
en.wikipedia.org...

Personally I fail to see how making it easier to sack someone will stimulate growth in the economy.
It is open to abuse and allows employers to treat their staff with disdain and disregard.
It will help drive down wages further thus reducing costs and increasing profits - but what about the implications to the wage earber who is earning less and is seeking to provide for his / her family etc? And who will also have less to spend in the high street thus restricting growth.

Prior to taking office in The Coalition cabinet I had quite a bit of respect for Vince Cable and I considered him one of the few politicians of integrity.
But he lost that when he took his share of the 30 pieces of silver.

en.wikipedia.org...

Whilst quietely going about his business he has more or less followed government line etc with one notable exception - his views on Murdoch.
Cable said he would choose his fight - maybe it has been chosen for him?

reply to post by Freeborn


The thing is that every society has a desire for social mobility, that is every society has a divide between the have's and the have nots. In itself, i do not see a problem with this - the desire to improve and better ourselves and our lives is a perfectly natural phenomenon that exists in all species (ie, hermit crabs upgrading to bigger, better, shells, etc). The problems arise when the gap between the two camps gets too large (which it most certainly is at the moment).

However, why do people keep talking about Tory cuts? I actually thought public borrowing had gone up under the Conservatives? I believe the "cuts" that people actually refer to are more a reference to the fact that this increase in borrowing is by less than forecast figures? May be off there but the figures clearly demonstrate more public spending under the Coalition........

Whole thing is a load of rubbish though. We have allowed ourselves to be screwed over by failing to do anything about it for decades. In previous centuries, people stood up for themselves when this gap increased too much and, in the UK at least, generally got improvements on the back off taking action.

Maybe we need to a proper public statement, something like a campaign for annual non payment of taxes until measures are taken to redistribute some wealth. Obviously though, whatever action wee to be taken would have to be by the majority of the population - not so easy when people are easily distracted by the latest "make Simon Cowell richer" programme or other drivel that seems to excite people.

reply to post by Freeborn


I think the report has been badly publicised to be honest. Whilst i mainly agree with you that making it easier to sack people shouldn't, in theory, be productive for the economy i believe what was meant that it should be simpler to sack unproductive and feckless staff members. Having to work with several that are like this, i can sort of see the point that is being made - employment laws make it quite difficult to get rid of employees that basically take the p without going far enough to warrant instant dismissal. So what was being proposed was basically to make it easier for small businesses to get rid of these staff members.

However, like all things like this, my fear would be that once it was up and running it would morph from that sensible proposal into simply making it easier to get rid of whoever they fancy.

reply to post by Flavian

The thing is that every society has a desire for social mobility, that is every society has a divide between the have's and the have nots. In itself, i do not see a problem with this

I understand the desire to improve things, gain a better standard of living etc - they are some of the most basic and primary motivators for the human race
And I fully understand that there will probably always be divisions within society and a certain amount of flux between them is a sign of a functioning society.
But what we have at present aren't merely divisions, they are huge gulfs and chasms and they are widening.
And we as a society should be working towards narrowing the gaps between social strata's and easing the flux between them not enabling or allowing it to widen.
All current policies are aimed at maintaining the current system which actively encourages the widening gulf.

Enabling social mobility without addressing some of the social inequalities etc is like recognising that there is a severe fire risk and then providing more fire fighting equipment without reducing the risk of fire by correcting the core source of the fire risk.

However, why do people keep talking about Tory cuts?

The cuts are very real and are having a biting effect on many people.

My parents, who are both pensioners and the official carers of my handicapped brother, have been directly affected and will be anything up to £100 wek worse off with reduced services and support.
It's very worrying.
And they are far from unique.

I know lots of people whose jobs are under threat or are being asked to work for less.

Services are being drastically reduced all over the North East.

I actually thought public borrowing had gone up under the Conservatives? I believe the "cuts" that people actually refer to are more a reference to the fact that this increase in borrowing is by less than forecast figures? May be off there but the figures clearly demonstrate more public spending under the Coalition........

I honestly don't know about any of that.

I just know that there are many cuts that are affecting ordinary people in many varied but damaging ways.

Education and teachers are suffering.

Those alleged sacred preserves of The Tory Party The Police and The Military are both facing cuts, (any student of The Tories history will tell you that's a fallacy fuelled by The Tories themselves and in reality they always target The Police and The Armed Services).

Whole thing is a load of rubbish though. We have allowed ourselves to be screwed over by failing to do anything about it for decades. In previous centuries, people stood up for themselves when this gap increased too much and, in the UK at least, generally got improvements on the back off taking action.

Maybe we need to a proper public statement, something like a campaign for annual non payment of taxes until measures are taken to redistribute some wealth.

More and more people aren't paying tax as they are either unemployed or earn so little, (or they are the wealthy elite and are allowed to fiddle their tax bill and come to some cozy agreement with The Inland Revenue that allows them pay a much reduced amount).

Maybe we just need to run this country in a professional but socially responsible manner and severely limited the amount of wealth that is being hoarded or syphoned off abroad.

Obviously though, whatever action wee to be taken would have to be by the majority of the population - not so easy when people are easily distracted by the latest "make Simon Cowell richer" programme or other drivel that seems to excite people.

Can't disagree with you there.

All part of the plan; produce a dumbed down and anesthetized populace who are far more interested in a bottle of Lambrini or White Star and BGT, TOWIE and other inane nonsense.

reply to post by Flavian

..... i believe what was meant that it should be simpler to sack unproductive and feckless staff members.

Before I started running my own pubs my primary source of income for many years was in a local factory.
I started doing the worst job in the factory and worked my way up through machine operator, Team Leader, Shift Manager.
I eventually became a relatively senior manager in the organisation which was part of a multi-national organisation. (During this time I also worked doors and for a while had my own security firm).
When I eventiually left them after many years I became a Production Manager of a factory in The Midlands but I got sick of travelling and crap beer so I got into the brewery trade, not my smartest move!

I am more than aware that every single factory, business etc has their slackers etc, and I also know that it is very easy to 'manage' people out of any business using correct procedure and by following the law.

However, like all things like this, my fear would be that once it was up and running it would morph from that sensible proposal into simply making it easier to get rid of whoever they fancy.

And my experience of both large multi-national companies, smaller companies and from my shop floor life experience etc I can guarantee that it will be used to victimise people and reduce wage and labour costs.

The vast majority of people in this world are hard working, conscientious people who simply want an equal chance in life and a fair days pay for a fair days work......I really can't find any fault with that.....unfortunately we are a long way off that.....and are getting further away from it.

If the conservatives have their way, the UK will be moving into a new dark age. We cannot trust the government for anything and higher education should be taken completely out of their hands. Unfortunately we in the UK have a royal family and so we cannot do it. Maybe in wikiversity finally got round to doing something it may help.

In the UK not just do we have a class system and an expensive education system, but also hereditary titles, a royal family... all this makes it much worse. We need to make a replacement university education system global in function and uncontrolled by and one country. Designed to achieve as much as a normal education system but in less time (this is the easiest way to improve it). For all people to stop calling people by hereditary titles: most of those that have them will want to be called by them, but if they are not then the titles would eventually dissapear.

For people to take a stand by not buying from companies ran by the old boys network: with a private educated ceo.
This would help counterbalance the current situation as it would never eliminate them completely.