I noticed something disturbing in the "there are no jobs"/"there are plenty of jobs" threads.

There have been a ton of threads lately about jobs. What I noticed in those threads saddens me. Seems like people are HAPPY that lots of other people are out of work or can't find good jobs. There is particular glee directed at young people who took out big education loans and can't seem to find high-paying work in the field of their studies.

Disclosure: I have a job, not a super-high paying one but pretty good for my age, and I'm happy with it and not complaining. I'm not a college grad and I never expected those kinds of jobs anyway. So this isn't about me. Its about other people, young or old, who can't find work they like, and also in some case not any work at all. So save your personal comments, its not about me.

What I see is this: People are working jobs they don't like, so when somebody can't find a good job, it makes them happy. Because it validates their crappy job. They can think, "Well, all those kids thought they were too good for my job scrubbing toilets or hauling bolders, whatever. Now those smarty-pants will have to suffer like me doing low-level low-paid work they hate. Mwahahahaha! (evil grin)."

They'll never admit it, but they'd rather see an economy where everyone is dragged down to the level of suffering and doing work they hate, than they'd like to see a vibrant economy where educated people can make money doing interesting things. Because they aren't educated or can't get those jobs anyway, so they'd rather drag everyone down to their level.

This saddens me. Even though I never expected a high-paying job or an "interesting career," I want those people who want those things to be able to have it if they want it, rather than insisting everyone has to be at minimum wage.

This is because people in our society would rather see their neighbor fail rather than succeed. Success threatens relationships with change, and most of us despise change.

I should also note that people who have worked these low paying/crappy jobs need to validate themselves because society often takes their profession for granted. Professional prestige should be the opposite of what it is, with teachers/people who contribute most to society receiving the highest pay/prestige, but that's just my opinion. There is honor in being a janitor; without janitors, businesses would literally be full of s***.

It seems many people on ATS advocate a race to the bottom when it comes to working conditions and pay. It will only have a detrimental effect for everyone, the "I'm alright jack mentality" will only last so long in our current economic climate, as more and more people see their working conditions and pay suffer.

reply to post by Partygirl


I don't quite see it that way.
I think people more feel, the worse things get the sooner we can hit bottom and begin the rebuilding process.
This limbo area that some are stuck in sucks, it kills me that one of my six children had to join the military.
Me, I'm fat, old, retired, and broken, so I have cashed in my chips and have gone on vacation until I get kicked out of the casino.
Really though, I've got my land and am working on the systems and soon I should be bill free for the most part.
Too bad more could not figure out that living simple is much easier and just as fun as the rat race.
It's never too late.

Society at least in first world countrys has become to smart for there own good, educated clever people cant find work in there chosen profession because there evil NWO goverments dont build anything anymore or have outsourced labour to 3rd world countrys where even skilled labour is literally dirt cheap. And still with jobs becoming scarcer by the moment they import more immigrants in to our countrys to put more strain on a system that cannot cope with the population already in place. If people want Jobs its simple, we need to get rid of the current goverment, completly. Things need to change! Vive la Revolution!!!

reply to post by Partygirl


Honey, I think you just hit the nail squarely on the head. One of the saddest aspects of human nature is how it makes us feel better to have someone to look down on, or kick, so that we can feel better.

I got very frustrated with the job threads myself. I was unemployed for 2 years, and not from lack of trying. It was the most depressing feeling ever. Especially now when you do everything online so you never get to have that face to face interview or face to face handing in an application. Even my wife's family came down on me accusing me of being lazy. My mother in law bought me a shirt that says "I may be immature, lazy and loud, but I sure am a lot of fun" and that really kind of hurt my feelings. Just another kick when I was down to help keep me there I guess.

I got a job finally, but up until that point I felt almost worthless. It is hard enough to deal with your own emotions when you are out of work, I don't understand why people have to add MORE stress to what is already a stressful situation. I am one of the hardest working people I know.

reply to post by Darkblade71


I think in today's stressful society that most people are so stressed out they just dump on anyone they see, they are unaware of the consequence for the other person. It is a sad cycle that we see play out over and over again. What people have lost touch with is empathy for the people around us. It's sad really because making someone else happy actually lowers your stress levels and may even increase your lifespan. So go out and practice this and let me know how you feel after. It is quite liberating, I try to keep this mindset all the time.

Just a sweeping, general observation about academics. What I've noticed about academic types in general... grad students, professors, etc. is that they don't care about what's outside of academia. They just get on with their work and their lives. They won't be the ones constantly criticizing the unemployed for not finding work. It's because most of them actually enjoy their work.

Also, they will rarely associate with those outside of academia, unless they share interests. I suppose that's the distinction between academics and gripers in the job threads: they care about interests rather than money.

It's counterproductive to let money worries get in the way of interests. Money isn't an interest; it's the very opposite of one! Simply stop thinking about money too much and do what you like. As was mentioned before, even the most penniless people can be happy if they do what they like. Person A and Person B may both be penniless but Person A is happy because of his attitude.

The most disturbing thing for me is few seem to stop and ask whether "jobs" and making sure everyone has one is a good thing for society to pursue in the first place.

Namaste.

Originally posted by Partygirl
There have been a ton of threads lately about jobs. What I noticed in those threads saddens me. Seems like people are HAPPY that lots of other people are out of work or can't find good jobs. There is particular glee directed at young people who took out big education loans and can't seem to find high-paying work in the field of their studies.

No one should be gleeful, but there is an issue here, and there's plenty of blame to go around that isn't students' fault.

1) Society itself is to blame for believing that a degree is necessary, ANY degree, for success. Many people would be much better off in vocational training. It was ONCE the case that any degree was OK, but those days were long ago, probably ending in the 1950's.

2) Colleges and Universities are to blame. They keep turning out graduates in fields where there are no jobs. They seek students because if they don't, the schools contract and face lay-offs. This is worse now that on-line programs are more popular. Private, for-profit schools are particularly egregious in this regard. Student enrollment provides jobs for teachers.

3. The Government is to blame by guaranteeing student loans for everyone for anything. BTW, this causes tuition to go up. Banks are more or less forced to provide 'equal opportunity' for loans here, but they also part of the problem. They are the ones collecting the interest (and also the ones taking the fall on defaults.)

So it's absolutely true that these other entities can be seen to be preying on students. That's a given, and they should rightfully be criticized for their role in this.

But there is still some additional frustration. Who in their right mind would take out tens of thousands of dollars in loans to get a degree in Anthropology? Medieval English Literature? Philosophy? Nearly any liberal arts degree? It's really rare to find jobs in these fields. These students' parents were in exactly the same situation 30 years ago. There have never been jobs in these fields. It's not new. It's not that these are not interesting fields or that they don't "make you a better person." But it's not the kind of thing you want to hang $100K in loans on.

If any of these students had a degree in chemical engineering I guarantee you they would have jobs today. But a degree in chemical engineering requires advanced math. It's hard. A degree in English is not hard. It's easy. You don't have to put out much.

So when someone like that gets on a place like this and asks, "Who is going to pay my student loans?" My answer is: "You are, schmuck!" Though I know it is very likely that I will be the one paying for them. I'm not gleeful that you cannot get a job. I'm angry that you made such an idiotic decision as to suppose you could rack up $100K for an English degree and expect to get a high-paying job at the conclusion. You did no research. You were oblivious.

I'm also angry at the sense of entitlement I see. Not only do they expect someone else to just "pick up the tab" while they move on, they are too good to take the jobs that ARE out there, including minimum wage jobs that are beneath them. The whole thing is pathetic.

reply to post by Partygirl


Explanation: S&F!

Personal Disclosure: Congratulations on earning your 3000 St*r courtesy of OL!

Originally posted by Partygirl
They'll never admit it, but they'd rather see an economy where everyone is dragged down to the level of suffering and doing work they hate

So people are upset at unequal treatment, what's new?

I have to agree with the "glee camp" on this one. True, there are countless degreed folks that are not arrogant. But, let's face it, diplomas are for "stars" or "likes" or "popularity".

I remember when at an old job, folks were introducing themselves:

"Hi, I'm Joe; Harvard"

"Hi, Joe, I'm Jane; Juliard"

"Hey Joe, and Jane, I'm Frank; Princeton"

When it got to me:

"Hi there, Anthony; traffic school."

I refer to a diploma as the "sheep skin", and jobs won't take you without one. Now they don't take you WITH one, gotta love a saturated market!

If anything, the arrogance will stop. No one at McDonalds cares about your degree in history from Harvard.

Originally posted by ThoughtIsMadness
reply to post by Darkblade71

 

I think in today's stressful society that most people are so stressed out they just dump on anyone they see, they are unaware of the consequence for the other person. It is a sad cycle that we see play out over and over again. What people have lost touch with is empathy for the people around us. It's sad really because making someone else happy actually lowers your stress levels and may even increase your lifespan. So go out and practice this and let me know how you feel after. It is quite liberating, I try to keep this mindset all the time.

That's how I do it. I believe fully in seeing all sides at all times, and making a difference in a persons day. It could be a smile or holding a door, a joke, just making a difference with random acts of kindness. Sounds funny to some, but when you don't have a lot of cash, sometimes the only way you can make a difference in the world is to have empathy for your fellow beings. It does a body good!

I just wanted to say, I agree with you 100%. People don't want to see others succeed... At least not more than they have. I'm fine with being poor. But I'm starting to realize that most people can't handle it, and I'm actually kind of scared of what will happen. So, I WANT everyone else to succeed! Cause if they have to live like I do, they are bound to transform into some kind of maniac and we'll have all kinds of these maniacs all over the place! Jeez, having things isn't THAT important... If you're a good person you will find someone to share your love with, and THAT is what is important. I wouldn't trade it for ANY amount of money! That being said, I do hope everyone can find a way to manage their lives without becoming a greedy hateful maniac! Cause love isn't really a quick fix... It can take a long time to find it. The main thing is, we won't get anywhere by fighting eachother.

reply to post by 3n19m470


My dad used to say people were "practical" at heart and the "masses" or "crowds" had a kind of heardlike survival instinct to adapt automatically to whatever history happened to throw up. But sometimes there is a shakout, right? There hasn't been a real hard time like this for a long time for the rich countries. Exactly when depends on where you lived. But the European lands, the commonwealth and ex-commonwealth states from Canada to Australia, the US, Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong. S. Korea, other places here and there...its been a while. The unrest in Chicago is worrisome. That city is a historical flashpoint, as with the "Days of Rage" Chicago rampage in the late 60s.

reply to post by OmegaLogos


Thank you OL!

Im guilty of it, but i put myself down, i compare a lot, its human nature i guess but i never act or insult anyone, its just fo rme and my self esteem. The problem with me is that im not happy with whatever i have, i guess thats also human nature. I had a close to minimum wage job about 3 yrs ago, and i was comparing myself to my other successfull friends who were making close to 6 digits. now with new job, im at a higher level, now i compare with others who gets more than that.. i guess ill never be happy like this... what can;t i be happy with what i have lol...

...Other day i was pissed of at my supervisor cause he slacks off and makes 140k/yr.... i do more work then him... he just stares at him computer most of the day, i think he only does like 3 hrs worth of job in the 8 hr shift.