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Rumsfeld Cautious on Iraq Terror-Link Documents

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posted on Oct, 3 2004 @ 11:44 PM
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edsinger I wasnt kidding when I said Iraq was the biggest intelligence failure since Pearl Habour its the awful truth.

Saddam would NOT have used them as that would have shown that he had them and it would not have changed the outcome if had used them.

I agree that if Saddam had used WMDS the outcome of the war wouldnt have changed. However if Saddam had the WMDs he would have used them against coalition
you dont think Saddam would have resorted to the use of WMDs?

When Saddam realized that defeat was inevitable he would have done anything to try and stem the tide and defeat the coalition forces.



posted on Oct, 3 2004 @ 11:48 PM
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Frankly I'll believe it when I see it and when there is hard evidence provided that Saddam shipped them to Syria. And of course we must assume also that if they got out that we let them get out. You don't move a large stockpile (if it existed) without us knowing. With all the spying we do on them. It would be shameful if we didn't know. But chances are he didn't have them. This would of course be another attempt by the Bush admin to avoid dealing with NK. Syria has no great army. NK does.



posted on Oct, 3 2004 @ 11:57 PM
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Originally posted by xpert11
edsinger I wasnt kidding when I said Iraq was the biggest intelligence failure since Pearl Habour its the awful truth.



It is not even close m8, I can think of many in the cold war that were bigger in scope.....



you dont think Saddam would have resorted to the use of WMDs?


Not on his best day, 1991 was his only shot....and even then he wasnt stupid......



posted on Oct, 4 2004 @ 12:00 AM
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This just in: US in talks with Syria for strategic military alliance. This probably is the reason that Syria's recent use of chemical weapons in the Sudan has gone without comment from the White House. With US plans for Iraq in tatters, looks like Washington is once again making strange new friends.

Back to you, Skip.



posted on Oct, 4 2004 @ 12:00 AM
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Originally posted by Indy
Frankly I'll believe it when I see it and when there is hard evidence provided that Saddam shipped them to Syria. And of course we must assume also that if they got out that we let them get out. You don't move a large stockpile (if it existed) without us knowing. With all the spying we do on them. It would be shameful if we didn't know. But chances are he didn't have them. This would of course be another attempt by the Bush admin to avoid dealing with NK. Syria has no great army. NK does.



Well you dont think you will be able to see our KH-12 pics do you? No not a chance, even if Gore was in the Whitehouse. They do not want these capabilites advertised. Still no one can explain how the Russians, Brits, Saudi's, Jordanians, French, Germans KNEW they were there? You know why? Cause they have the US in a pickle at the moment. They would not help us openly in such a way. He had them, we just have to find out where they went...



posted on Oct, 4 2004 @ 12:03 AM
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Originally posted by edsinger
Look the FACT is Saddam HAD them at one time.

Yes he did, in fact he acquired dual agents to start his arsenal from the U.S under Reagan's watch, and the U.S has the ledger that says; Credit Materiels $millions, Debt Oil receivable; millions.


He had the capability to make more.


Oh? And your source declaring the facilities and or precursors post invasion are?


He did not have any proof he destroyed them. Just becuase the UN couldn't find them you base your opionion? Come on! The UN couldnt find anything,


Would you be so kind as to point me to the February, March and April 2003 U.N Reports that corroborate your story?


I find this attitude really funny.


I find the guilty verdict without substance.


Saddam would NOT have used them as that would have shown that he had them and it would not have changed the outcome if had used them.


Why wouldn't he? Saddam was no fool, he knew he could not win, and he was also told he would be charged with war crimes. In other words, he couldn't bargain a passage from hell to purgatory, so why would he not use them to destroy as many of his enemies as possible?


Saddam wasnt stupid, he just miscalculated that we would not attack. THe French and Germans told him they would block any attemt to do so.


Links to identified French and German governmental sources would go a long way to help your floundering case.



posted on Oct, 4 2004 @ 12:04 AM
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Originally posted by taibunsuu
This just in: US in talks with Syria for strategic military alliance. This probably is the reason that Syria's recent use of chemical weapons in the Sudan has gone without comment from the White House. With US plans for Iraq in tatters, looks like Washington is once again making strange new friends.
Back to you, Skip.


Well They also dont have them do they? Then how can they use them in the Sudan? Ah, borrowed them from Egypt I am sure...



posted on Oct, 4 2004 @ 12:13 AM
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Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
Oh? And your source declaring the facilities and or precursors post invasion are?


Read the Reports m8! It made CNN , I cant remember where but the jist was he could have started production VERY fast.


Would you be so kind as to point me to the February, March and April 2003 U.N Reports that corroborate your story?


Did you not see the pics of the trucks leaving the rear of the facility being inspected while the UN waits out front to get in?



Why wouldn't he? Saddam was no fool, he knew he could not win, and he was also told he would be charged with war crimes. In other words, he couldn't bargain a passage from hell to purgatory, so why would he not use them to destroy as many of his enemies as possible?


Well I disgaree, he is not dead yet is he? he is a coward, but he did not want to die and believe it or not, I do not think the generals would have used them if ordered anyway. Saddam figured he needed to get to Paris.




Links to identified French and German governmental sources would go a long way to help your floundering case.


I bet they didnt publish all the French Passports issued to regime members before the invasion did they. You need to wake up!



posted on Oct, 4 2004 @ 12:25 AM
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Originally posted by edsinger

Originally posted by taibunsuu
This just in: US in talks with Syria for strategic military alliance. This probably is the reason that Syria's recent use of chemical weapons in the Sudan has gone without comment from the White House. With US plans for Iraq in tatters, looks like Washington is once again making strange new friends.
Back to you, Skip.


Well They also dont have them do they? Then how can they use them in the Sudan? Ah, borrowed them from Egypt I am sure...


I think you miss the point.

The White House could give two #s about a country using WMDs. Hell we supplied Iraq with the chemicals to make WMDs in the 80s and when he gassed the Kurds the White House said sanctions would be 'premature.'

Now Syria has gassed people in the Sudan and the White House is making friends with them.

WMDs do not matter. They were an excuse to wage ware. Securing oil, waging war, and establishing geopolicy, do matter.



posted on Oct, 4 2004 @ 12:43 AM
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Originally posted by xpert11
When Saddam realized that defeat was inevitable he would have done anything to try and stem the tide and defeat the coalition forces.


Sure, he could just dig up the wmd they had real fast huh?.... Saddam was playing cat and mouse with the UN inspectors and wouldn't let them into some factories until a week or more of warning before hand where the UN inspectors wanted to check, then he would just let them in some places, but there were other factories they could not enter.... So it took them weeks to bury many if not most wmd, you think he could have just unburied them in hours?


[edit on 4-10-2004 by Muaddib]



posted on Oct, 4 2004 @ 12:49 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky

I don't know...I won't believe anything until the UN verifes it.



jsobecky, perhaps you should take a look at what countries are part of the UN and what kind of governments they have, also look at what role Syria has in the UN...or Iran, or some others like China, USSR, err Russia...Cuba, etc, etc.... Of course, not all countries that are part of the UN belong to the group i posted above, and others like them....but just check them out...and then tell me you want to trust them...



posted on Oct, 4 2004 @ 12:49 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by xpert11
When Saddam realized that defeat was inevitable he would have done anything to try and stem the tide and defeat the coalition forces.

So it took them weeks to bury many if not most wmd, you think he could have just unburied them in hours?


[edit on 4-10-2004 by Muaddib]



Thats impossibel when you never had them. I heard that the weapons the UN inspectors were REALLY looking for was genitically modified corn and bean bases. He wanted to create a great 'gas' problem in the west. They found those and sold them to Heinz to put in ketchup!



posted on Oct, 4 2004 @ 01:02 AM
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Originally posted by edsinger
"The Iraqi Survey Group has yet to submit its final report," Lt. Gen. Lance Smith, deputy chief of U.S. Central Command, said. "Besides, who knows what we will find in two years, who knows what was moved to countries like Syria. What we know for certain is that Saddam Hussein had carried out research into an array of weapons of mass destruction."


Please honestly contrast this statement of utmost uncertainty from the deputy chief of US Central Command, with the bold certainty of the title of the thread/article: U.S Military Intelligence: Saddam Transferred WMD to Syria. Bit of a gaping discrepancy, hmm?



The military's assessment that Syria has received Iraqi WMD has been shared by the Defense Department, officials said. They said U.S. reconnaissance satellites had detected the entry of Iraqi convoys of suspected WMD and missile cargo into Syria and Lebanon's Bekaa Valley in early 2003.


Mmm, so, as I have often mused before, why did we not carry out incursions against these convoys, instead of invading Iraq when we allegedly suspected the WMD had already been moved? Its hard to cover the smell of such a mountain of BS with an air freshener can...



"It's a clear fact that the deposits of weapons of mass destruction have not been found since the end of the major combat operations," Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said. "Another possibility is they gave them to some other country or hid them in some other country."


Once again, sounds pretty tentative to me (sounds like Old Rummy has learned something from the debacle of lying to convince us to go to war with Iraq). Is the title tot he article/thread reflective of this tentative attitude? Hardly.



Officials said Saddam agents have sought to kill Iraqis with knowledge of the former regime's nuclear weapons program. They cited the assassination of Iraqi nuclear scientist Mohammed Toki Hussein Al Talakani on Sept. 4 in the Sunni city of Mahmudiya.


I'm not quite sure what to make of this without more information, but it would figure. Israel would do the same to protect the secrecy of its nuclear capacities in a similar situation.



"The information available to us doesn't indicate Iraq had these drones for the delivery of chemical or biological weapons agents, nor had they gone beyond the 150 kilometer range," UN commission spokesman Ewen Buchanan said. "But we're open to new information and looking forward to the Iraq Survey Group's findings."

www.worldtribune.com...


Yes, and that's not the only debunking of false accusations made against Iraq by the Bush administration. Those who cannot see the pattern here are choosing not to see it.

U.



posted on Oct, 4 2004 @ 01:09 AM
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If this is true It is one more reason why the IRAQO WACKO screwed up again.
If this is true it illustrates why NOT LISTENING TO THE GENERALS AT THE PENTAGON has turned Iraq into a TOTAL DISASTER.
IRAQ WAS COMPLETE MISMANAGEMENT FROM BEGINNING TO END. (only trouble is we have no clue as to when it will end. And NOTHING CONSTRUCTIVE has been accomplised) [Please don't pedal that liberate Iraq BS, Please.]

We may have let WMDs slip through our fingers. Wasn't the POINT of this war to ELIMINATE WMDs? Iraq is Bush's FAILURE

By trying to have 'War on the Cheap' and not managing the situation on the ground with adequate troops and an IMMEDIATE infrastructure reconstruction Bush is CREATING more terrorists than were eliminated in Afghanistan. Iraq is Bush's FAILURE.

IRAQ DISASTER MASTER STRIKES AGAIN.
.



posted on Oct, 4 2004 @ 01:13 AM
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Slank, You do know it�s difficult to read huge sections of bold text don�t you. My eyes are bugging-out!



posted on Oct, 4 2004 @ 01:16 AM
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Originally posted by slank
And NOTHING CONSTRUCTIVE has been accomplised) [Please don't pedal that liberate Iraq BS, Please.]

We may have let WMDs slip through our fingers. Wasn't the POINT of this war to ELIMINATE WMDs? Iraq is Bush's FAILURE


It was not Bush failure....was Bush personally looking over the shoulder of every US soldier and moving them in Iraq?

Was it Bush who diminished funds, and at the same time downsized our intelligence agencies and military from 1992-2000?

And of course, let's not look at what we have achieved since the war in Iraq....who really wants to take notice of what has been accomplished huh?


Who got us involved in the Iraq war in the first place?.... let me give you a hint...take a look at what the president of the previous administration did in 2000....

[edit on 4-10-2004 by Muaddib]



posted on Oct, 4 2004 @ 01:20 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib

It was not Bush failure....was Bush personally looking over the shoulder of every US soldier and moving them in Iraq?



The only reason the Iraqi situation has not collapsed is because of the high quality of our men and women in uniform. The strategy issued by the White House is an utter disaster. The GIs in that country are holding it together. They have not failed but exceeded.



Was it Bush who diminished our intelligence agencies and military from 1992-2000?


Do you really believe people buy this crap, still? He had three years to review the intelligence of that country.

With Bush, the buck stops... nowhere.



And of course, let's not look at what we have achieved since the war in Iraq....who really wants to take notice of what has been accomplished huh?


What, exactly, has been accomplished?



posted on Oct, 4 2004 @ 01:49 AM
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Originally posted by edsinger
Read the Reports m8! It made CNN , I cant remember where but the jist was he could have started production VERY fast.


I prefer you find those reports for me directly from the UN site and not reference a CNN transcript parsed for special effect Hopefully it was not reported by Blitzen or whatever his name, who squealed with delight at a fighter taking off from a carrier: "It goes very very fast very very quickly." To set you on your quest I make your search easy for you: www.un.org...


Did you not see the pics of the trucks leaving the rear of the facility being inspected while the UN waits out front to get in?


Do you mean like the pics of those dastardly mobile trailers or even those armageddon inducing drones?


Well I disgaree, [that he would use WMD] he is not dead yet is he? he is a coward, but he did not want to die and believe it or not, I do not think the generals would have used them if ordered anyway. Saddam figured he needed to get to Paris.


You are correct, he is not dead yet, and all Americans should fear the power he still commands from behind a prison cell I suppose. Maybe he is planting Weapons of Marigold Destruction. Fact is, he had nothing to lose, nothing at all, and if he had them whether his generals wanted to use them or not, he would have ordered their disbursement. WMD found = ZERO. As for the Paris thing, is this what he, Saddam told you or was this another Blitzen exclusive?



Links to identified French and German governmental sources would go a long way to help your floundering case.


I bet they didnt publish all the French Passports issued to regime members before the invasion did they. You need to wake up!


And what passports would they be? Have you names? Maybe you mean of the stolen variety? Or maybe you mean of the legitimate variety, much like some unemntionable flight training terrorists?



posted on Oct, 4 2004 @ 01:54 AM
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Yes, I agree that the chem/bio weapons and materials and WMD information went to Syria, and who knows how many millions of dollars as well.
But does anyone else kind of get a sinking feeling when this intel is coming from military intelligence?


This is one time I may have to defend a liberal who denies all this.



posted on Oct, 4 2004 @ 02:11 AM
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Originally posted by taibunsuu


The only reason the Iraqi situation has not collapsed is because of the high quality of our men and women in uniform. The strategy issued by the White House is an utter disaster. The GIs in that country are holding it together. They have not failed but exceeded.


I did not accuse our soldiers and sailors or said it was them who made the mistakes. First i was in the military and i know what they have to go through. Second do not make assumptions on things i haven't said.....

Please do tell me what kind of deterrents, and who made sure there were deterrents when Bush proposed to send more funds to help our troops to get ammunition and get armored....

It is my belief that we all failed as a nation, the fault does not fall in just one man. The US split up in two when people forgot what we set to do in the war on terror. The split our nation has gone through is part of the reason of those failures. The same goes for what some nations did when we got involved in this conflict, those nations that decided that they must do all in their power so we didn't oust Saddam...all for the sake of their own economic gains.

Imagine what would have happened if we had split as a nation during WWI and WWII as we are doing right now..... well, i guess you can't imagine it.



Do you really believe people buy this crap, still? He had three years to review the intelligence of that country.


taibunsuu...people don't buy your crap which is not the same....
how long do you think it takes spies to infiltrate a country/group and make enough friends, connections and gain trust from the entities they will spy on?....
It takes longer to infiltrate spies in the right places, and make the necessary connections to get intelligence....it only takes a few weeks to destroy all that hard work, which Clinton did very well.




What, exactly, has been accomplished?


Let's see...
1. The coalition ousted a dictator who has made threats to the west and has helped and supported terrorists against the west. Not to mention the coalition stopped this dictator from ever taking up on his wmd programs.

2.The coalition has captured a significant ammount of Al Qaeda leaders and other terrorists.

3.The coalition has assured that we are fighting many terrorists outside of the US and in their turf...and yes, it is their turf...instead of fighting them in the US.


Salman Pak - Iraq�s own terrorist training camp

Two Iraqi Military defectors, an unnamed former Lt. General and a Captain Sabah Khodada recently gave details of an Iraqi school at Salman Pak which includes training for the hijacking of passenger airliners and other modes of transportation. The former Iraqi General said that there was a old Boeing 707 resting next to rail tracks on edge of Salman Pak being used in terrorist training, the existence of this aircraft has been confirmed by UN. Inspectors.

Excerpted from.
www.intelmessages.org...

What? terrorist camps in Iraq?


4.The war in Iraq made another dictator, Qaddafi, abandon it's wmd program and call on to other rogue nations to do the same.


[edit on 4-10-2004 by Muaddib]




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