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The Suspicious Death of MI6 Agent Gareth Williams..

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posted on May, 9 2012 @ 09:24 AM

The Suspicious Death of MI6 Agent Gareth Williams..



Hey all,

As ATS is predominantly an American website, in the sense that the vast majority of members who post here are American, I imagine that a lot of those reading this thread right now will most likely not be all that familiar with the name Gareth Williams (Pictured above in more happier times). I don't know how much coverage, if any at all, he's received over there or even in any other part of the world (outside of here in the UK) in fact, but in my opinion, his story of secret Intelligence and life as a spy for MI6 and his unfortunate and rather shocking and sudden death just a few short years ago now in 2010 is something we should all be made aware of in large part due to the incredibly mysterious and suspicious circumstances which surrounded it.

Even now, suspicion and mystery continue to surround the case, one which is becoming more and more of a talking point here in the UK due to the public inquest into his death, one which has failed to sufficiently answer any questions, instead raise them more so and bring to light this story. And It truly is a story that's grabbed the attention of the UK as a whole right now.

Whether foul play really occurred in this case or not though is a little bit tough to say unfortunately, and It's becoming tougher by the day, largely due to the secretive nature of not just his death but also the events surrounding It’s aftermath with claims of conspiracy, claims of “Darks Arts” Agents within the Intelligence world involved in a murder plot and claims of cover-up concerning the apartment where Williams was found, more than prevalent and in large part being called by the remaining Williams family members themselves as well as even those investigating.

Was Gareth Williams really just a shy, quiet, often alone individual known to be working on top secret activities during his intelligence work with MI6 really murdered? We don't know for sure, and It's possible we won't ever know for sure, something Coroner Fiona Wilcox has publicly claimed in recent weeks. But, it does seem everything is indeed pointing towards there being much, much more to this case than is currently being told, again something claimed by Fiona and just about everyone else involved to some degree with investigating, thus why this thread here is certainly one worth writing up in my opinion. Gareth Williams was almost certainly murdered and because of this we need to continually ask why and how this could happen. What was the motive? Were other spies involved? Why was Gareth targeted and so on..

It is also however worth pointing out at this time though that this thread has been split up into multiple sections acting as posts, each of which is a look at the key areas of Gareth's life, the key areas surrounding the circumstances of his death in August of 2010 as well as some helpful links and sources I used when writing this thread up. To jump to a section, please click on one of the links below:

Mystery 1: The Personal Life of Gareth Williams

Mystery 2: Death in a Holdall Bag

Mystery 3: Was Someone Else Involved?..

Sources & Links

Thanks for reading so far..
edit on 9-5-2012 by Rising Against because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-5-2012 by Asktheanimals because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 9 2012 @ 09:25 AM

Mystery 1: The Personal Life of Gareth Williams



Gareth Williams, on the 16th of August, 2010, was dead, most probably murdered in fact. Officially however he was found for the first time on the 23rd of August in his Secret Services given safe house at 36 Alderney Street, Pimlico, London, now owned by a private company by the name of New Rodina. Gareth was first found stuffed quite tightly into a red sports holdall bag barely big enough to fit a man of his size which was also situated in his bathtub. He was found naked, the bag was locked from the outside yet the keys to the lock were found underneath Gareth actually inside the bag itself.

There were no apparent signs of a struggle taking place at any time; no real bruises on his body, scratches to his body, particularly his fingers, or the bag itself such as would be seen from a frantic escape attempt for example, and oddly, he was allegedly in a relative calm position with his arms folded across his body etc. I believe there were also was "some" marks on his body, his elbow to be exact, but nothing more than mere minor.

Taking this into consideration, the mystery surrounding the way in which Gareth really died has raged on. Was he murdered? Did he commit suicide? Was he forced into the bag? And more questions of this nature have continually been asked. According to those investigating the case, murder is by far the most likely conclusion, there being insufficient evidence to prove it beyond doubt however. But this begs the question, If Gareth really was murdered, who committed such acts? Were any of those working alongside him in the world of Intelligence involved or was he just a victim of an unprovoked attack perhaps?


(Image of a bag very similar to the one Gareth was found in)

Well, what we do know is there were no signs what so ever of a break in to Gareth's apartment. If he was indeed murdered, this was not how they got into the apartment and did their deed. Either they managed to get into the apartment without needing to break in, or Gareth quite possibly knew his attackers. Something that's quite possible taking into consideration a Mediterranean couple who were seen in that location and who the police are still keen to talk to as of today, but this will be discussed in more detail later on in this thread.

For now though, let's remind ourselves who we're really talking about here - Originally he, Gareth, was born in Anglesey, North Wales, in 1979. At school he was a smart student, naturally gifted at mathematics in particular, something which of course contributed to his later life and job. He continued on in this path to become a true expert in the field and at the mere age of 17 he first graduated with a first-class degree from Bangor University where he was studying mathematics part time while still at Ysgol Uwchradd Bodedern School.

Due to this, a short while afterwards completing a PhD and post-graduate studies at Manchester and then Cambridge University, this perhaps our most distinguished University over here in the UK, Gareth took up employment at the Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ), which is in short a British intelligence agency primarily responsible for providing signals intelligence (SIGINT)*, in Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, working primarily as a cipher and codes expert.


He spent many years here, the vast majority of which he spent renting a flat owned and rented out by Landlady Jenny Elliot, also in Cheltenham. After Gareth was found dead in 2010 however while on a yearlong secondment, commonly known as a transfer to another job with-in the same organisation for those who may not be familiar with the term*, at MI6 whose headquarters were about a mile or so away from his new home just on the opposite side of the river Thames, Williams contacted her and shared that he wanted to return to where he called home in Cheltenham, to his previous job and to his previous rented home.

It’s said he made very clear he didn’t enjoy his time in London, and he was actually only a few weeks away (from his yearlong transfer remember) from his expected return anyway.

Elliott, 71, said the man had been due to move back into her house next week after spending a year living and working in London.

"He was due to come back to me on 3 September," she said. "He rang me and said he would be back then. He said, 'Can I come back?' and I said sure. I hadn't heard anything else until a lady from the Foreign Office called at six o'clock to say that they hadn't had a sighting or a whereabouts and had we heard anything."

Gareth Williams, something we know quite well now, was a rural person. He often rode bicycles in competitions; he ran often and was into all such things. He's also said to have been something of an introvert, he was often alone, he was quiet, he was shy and he greatly enjoyed rural life compared to City life such as is found in London for example. It’s said he wasn’t enjoying his time at MI6 and hated the "rat race" there, his time with his new city co-workers and so on. In his own sisters words: he was really a “country boy”. *

The job wasn’t what he had expected and he hated the “rat race, flash car competitions and post-work drinking culture”. A keen cyclist and walker, he wanted to return to the freedom of the outdoors. One colleague even suggested he wanted to the head back to GCHQ because people there were more on his technical level.

He didn’t appear to make, or want, many friends. His landlady in Cheltenham for 10 years said he never had anyone to the flat. In London, one friend, Elizabeth Guthrie said she had never visited his home but he was happy to sit at hers watching DVDs rather than go out drinking. Only too aware of the sensitivities of his job, he was a “scrupulous risk-assessor" and as meticulous as a “Swiss clock”. He appeared to be a super intelligent prodigy who didn’t find it easy, or wanted, to fit in.
(Sour ce)

Williams was little short of a genius, a mathematical genius in particular. He was also a key member of GCHQ and in the field of cryptography. It’s claimed that this skill of his caused him to travel extensively, such as to a short stint where he was working for Intelligence in America and for the NSA (National Security Agency) working on intercepting communication between Al Qaeda cells in Maryland for example. He's said to have even spent time working in Bulgaria, this for MI5, a military intelligence establishment in Kabul, Menwith Hill in North Yorkshire and even elsewhere yet.

As well as this, he was known to have embarked on highly secretive projects while working for the GCHQ, some of which may even potentially be a possible cause for his death in 2010:

‘He was involved in some very sensitive projects, known as codeword protected,’ said a security expert.

‘This meant that only the people in his cell would know what he was working on, and nobody else in his organisation. ‘You are signed in to these projects and once you finish one you are signed out and you no longer have access to any data or news about what is happening in the project.’ Mr Williams – a child prodigy who had a degree in maths at 17 and then a PhD in the subject – was part of a team that created devices which ‘hook’ on to mobiles and laptops.

‘It is an aggressive form of Bluetooth or similar wireless technology,’ said the security expert.
He said such devices would be used by spies on the ground to steal data from the handsets of unsuspecting terrorists, organised criminals or officers from rival intelligence agencies.

‘Traditionally, there has been a separation of MI6 and GCHQ,’ said the expert. ‘MI6 has been full of the James Bond types working on the ground and GCHQ is filled with boffins with beards who are doing their scientific stuff. ‘But recently there has been a merger of these agencies’ work and Williams was at the forefront of that. This was why he was on secondment to MI6.’

Despite all of this however, there appears to be another side to the life of Gareth Williams, a hidden side to the life of this supposedly shy individual from North Wales, the man commonly known in the UK as the “spy in the bag”, this of course in reference to his state when first found in mid-August of 210.

For whatever reason, information about Gareth’s life, such as how he had supposedly spent time (although not often It’s claimed) looking at Bondage websites, spending time in gay bars, a video of him supposedly dancing naked but for a pair of boots were found on his phone, were revealed to the public and has become one of the forefront talking points in regards to this entire case, some claiming it as an attempt at character assassination, or deflection from the reason on-going issues.

As well as this though, when Gareth was first found in his apartment, they, police, also claimed to have found around 15 to 20 thousand pounds worth of women’s designer clothing, shoes and wigs, of which had not even been touched by anyone. As well as this were sim cards, a mobile phone, his iphone was wiped also a laptop all of which hadd been carefully laid out on the bed for reasons not known.

What’s particularly odd about this part of the case is most of the clothing that was found would’ve taken It’s toll on his rather modest salary at the time, and according to Carol Kirton who worked at a London fashion store and who had also encountered Gareth there: "She described him as “shy” but "on a mission to buy an item" when he came in." *


(An image of the inside of the apartment, as well as the red wig)

It's something that has become a rather large talking point here in the UK, in large part due to the mystery which surrounds it. How this spy was supposedly leading a completely separate life, one hidden from those who knew him best of all and who had no apparent idea of this other life of his. But, bearing this in mind, there very well may be an explanation out there as to why Gareth was really doing all of this, how he was able to spend so much of his salary on this, why he visited such locations he's said to have done and so on..

You see, It’s claimed that Gareth was not gay, was not even into anything related to cross dressing or bondage as it appears or has been pushed in the media,.. Instead he was being trained for undercover work, something he allegedly broke to a friend of his just prior to his death:

Gareth Williams, a GCHQ codebreaker on secondment to MI6, had two passports and told his best friend that he was preparing for an undercover operation.

Details of the 31-year-old’s role within the secret services are disclosed today in an interview with his confidante and childhood sweetheart, Sian Lloyd-Jones.

In an interview with The Mail on Sunday, she said: ‘I find it difficult to see anything in his personal life which could lie behind this.’

She reveals:

- He was training to take on a new identity eight months before he was found dead.

- He often purchased designer women’s clothes, but she insists they were gifts for her and his sister.

- The maths genius was found dead two days before he was due to visit Paris with his sister.

The revelations shed new light on Mr Williams’s work which, until now, had been regarded as highly technical and carrying little risk.

‘He said he was learning his new identity,’ she said. ‘In February he said he’d be unavailable for nine days because he was on a training exercise. He’d often go away, so I didn’t think any more about it.’

Ms Lloyd-Jones added that she last heard from Mr Williams on the day he was last seen alive when he was ‘happy and warm and the same as he always was’.

But it was Mr Williams’s sister – who was due to accompany him on a trip to Paris later that week – who alerted her that something may be wrong when she couldn’t get hold of him on the phone. She said that was when she became worried ‘because he’s like clockwork, he’s so predictable’.

Now this is where the first mystery seems to come in, Gareth Williams's supposed cross dressing lifestyle, something that became a huge talking point here in the UK in regards to this case largely as It has become a potential reason for why he may have died, and is also discussed in the next post of this thread, but is it true? I'm not convinced in all honesty. As are his close friends and family, the latter of which he was extremely close to. Of course however they could be in denial, something we have to consider, but at the same time they also know Gareth better than anyone else out there.


(The remaining Family members)

First off, the bondage mystery as it became known. Here in the UK we're commonly being told Gareth Williams visited Bondage websites and was "into" such thing's, this perhaps an explanation for his death - Specifically how he could've got into the bag himself and willingly. What is the true case though, did he have a fascination with bondage that we can prove beyond a reasonable doubt?

Dr Wilcox said IT experts who examined his computer history found he had only visited bondage websites on four separate dates.

She said there was also no evidence that he had researched claustrophilia - where people gain sexual gratification from being in enclosed spaces.

Dr Wilcox said the amount of internet activity regarding bondage formed a "tiny, tiny, tiny" part of his browser history.

Explaining her reasons for ruling out the involvement of bondage in his death she said in order for Mr Williams to have got into the bag in the bath alone and unaided, he would have left foot and fingerprints around the bath.

Dr Wilcox said she believed if Mr Williams had got into the bath alone he would have taken a knife with him as he was a "scrupulous risk assessor".

At the same time however, we have the story of how a few years prior to his death landlady Jenny Elliot found him tied to his bedposts in what Gareth claimed was an attempt at escapology, Elliot however maintaining It was sexually related:

Several years before Williams’s death, his Cheltenham landlord and landlady had to cut through knots to free him when his cries for help led them to discover him tied up in his boxers on his bed. “Gareth, we cannot have you doing this,” exclaimed a perplexed Brian Elliot. The Elliots and Williamses never mentioned the incident again, though the Elliots decided that it did not involve escapology related to Williams’s secret work.

These snapshots from his private life suggest why a man in touch with his feminine side may have been unhappy at Vauxhall Cross, with its strong quotient of hard-drinking public schoolboys and ex-military types telling tales of derring-do in foreign parts. He had been granted a transfer back to GCHQ shortly before his death, and evidently felt ill at ease in London and alienated by SIS’s culture of red tape.

In regards to the clothing and shoes, thousands of pounds worth, well, according to Gareths sister and close friend, they were merely gifts and can be explained beyond any doubt as shown here:

As for the latest allegations, Sian rejects them absolutely. While most men might not keep thousands of pounds of designer clothes, she says it was merely a sign of his generosity. She told police in the summer that Gareth would often buy her and his sister, Ceri, expensive gifts and she believes the clothes were meant for them.

As if to prove it, she points to her £760 Stella McCartney PVC trousers which were a present from Gareth.
She says: ‘I’ve seen every item of clothing that was there in the flat. There was Diana von Furstenberg, Stella McCartney, all in a size 6 or 8 which he wouldn’t even fit an arm or a leg into. He was small but not that small. And the shoes they found in his apartment were not in his size, but his sister’s. He was so generous you wouldn’t believe.
'I truly believe if he had any interest in homosexuality, he would have spoken to his sister and to me as well.'

‘The list is endless. He bought me a high-end Balenciaga top, a Gucci bag, a Mulberry bag, an Armani fur. He did the same for his sister. I truly believe that Ceri and I were going to receive the clothing. We received so many things from him, that wouldn’t have been strange.’

As for the women’s wigs, Sian says there is an entirely innocent explanation. ‘He and an American friend were going to a fancy-dress party in October,’ she says. One of his hobbies was Japanese superhero cartoons and they were going to go as two of the characters. They were pink and yellow and those are the only wigs that were found.
( Source)

Fiona Wilcox has also ruled out the possibility of cross dressing on the grounds that the clothing was all in It's original rapping and was also too small a size for Gareth thus were more than likely gifts.

Personally I do doubt the stories we’ve heard about his life. We cannot show beyond a reasonable doubt that he was into anything Bondage related, thus there is no real reason to suggest this was why he may have willingly got into the bag himself, and we don’t have a real, genuine reason to believe the clothing was bought for him. It was not his size and he had a history with being extremely generous and I’m more inclined to believe that’s what they were as opposed to being a cover for any sort of under-cover work, something I don’t believe Gareth was involved in, It just doesn’t fit his personality to me.

All of this certainly does beg the question though, How did Gareth really find himself into the red holdall bag? Was he murdered and stuffed into it? Did he go willingly and then be unable to escape, or perhaps forced in there by someone?
edit on 9-5-2012 by Rising Against because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 9 2012 @ 09:25 AM

Mystery 2: Death in a Holdall Bag



Now, the next main mystery that comes about in this case involves not any personal details about the life of Gareth Williams, or a debate on whether their real, plausible, ridiculous, true, false, etc. etc., it instead directly centres around the very way in which he seems to have died - found dead in a red sports holdall bag only a mere 32 inches long and 19 inches tall, the bag also situated in his bathtub in his Secret Services given "safe house" in Pimlico London.

Bearing this in mind however, we still don't quite know how it all took place as of right now and it all still remains something of a mystery to both the public and to those investigating the case, this almost 2 years on now. What we do know is that Gareth Williams returned from America on the 11th of August after an apparent holiday (that's how it has been described anyway) and was most probably dead in the early morning hours of the 16th of August, 2010, as the last known sightings of him were in the afternoon of the 15th of August of that same year simply doing his regular shopping while dressed in a distinctive bright red t-shirt as shown here in the last CCTV footage of him alive:



What happened later on in the last hours of his life largely remains a complete mystery, these images above being the last time he was ever seen again in public. Evidence from the Inquest was presented to show that Gareth most probably ate two peppered grill-steaks that night, which he went shopping for as captured in the above CCTV images, and at approximately 23:30 BST he, or someone who was most probably Gareth, backed up data, of which to be exact I don't know, to a laptop from his mobile phone before later visiting a cycling (He was a keen competition cyclist remember) website at approximately 1am - It also begs the question; What he was doing up so late? He was up for work the next day, and was even supposed to head a meeting as far as I'm aware - This in itself also begs the question; Why didn't anyone realize he had gone missing until a full week later? But, of course, this is something I'll come to..

Now, whatever did occur that night, or the early morning hours to be accurate.. We don't know, but it resulted in the death of Gareth Williams which then resulted in this vast mystery which eventually led to the making of this thread by me here. Due to the unknown nature of his death though, and taking into account the recent revelations about his life which have come to light, whether true or not, such as the claim that Gareth had visited Gay bars, had shown an interest in bondage by visiting websites of the nature, that thousands of pounds worth of women’s clothing was found in his apartment along with wigs, the claim that he had been found tied to his bed by his landlady a few years before and other claims of this nature, some have speculated that Gareth was gay, had maybe met someone while in London, and had also, rather bizarrely, died in some sort of sex game gone wrong by claiming that he attempted to climb into the bag, whether with someone else in the apartment with him forcing or willing him on to do so, or alone, for sexual arousal, commonly known as Erotic asphyxiation.


When finding that he couldn't physically escape after climbing into the bag, he's said to have panicked and eventually passed out and died from suffocation - After all, according to what information we have to work with, we know It would take little over 3 minutes to physically suffocate in the bag, but at the same time there's no evidence of any attempt at escaping.

This has also become a largely accepted theory here in the UK, and Initial tests seemed to back it up to a degree as a female police officer, who's name was not known, was easily able to climb into the bag, and by just being able to squeeze her hand through a small gap between the padlock and the zip fastener she was also able to successfully lock the £150 bag on the outside but be able to do it from the inside itself, thus proving that it was indeed possible for someone to, while alone, lock himself in the bag with the keys underneath him but have the bag locked on the outside..

There was however a crucial problem with this - the female police officer was said to have been chosen to take on the task specifically due to her rather small size. A person of Gareth's size on the other hand would've suffered to get into the bag on his own in the first place, let alone be able to lock it in a similar way. This proven beyond doubt by tests conducted by escapology and yoga experts such as Peter Faulding for example, also a former Parachute Regiment reservist and expert in confined rescues. In fact, testing with a person of Gareth's size and stature, proved, all in all, approximately 400 failed attempts, 300 of which by Faulding himself, from experts to get into the bag and then also lock it from the inside in a manner replicating Gareth Williams. Mr Faulding himself concluded:

Expert Peter Faulding tried to climb in to a bag inside a bath and lock it himself 300 times and failed every time.

He said: “My conclusion is he was placed in the bag unconscious or was dead when he was put in the bag.”

He also raised the idea the bag was placed in the bath so “bodily fluids” could drain away.

The inquest at Westminster Coroners’ Court is investigating Mr Williams’ death, whose decomposing, naked body was found in a padlocked holdall in his bath at his flat in Pimlico in August 2010.
(Source )

"My personal belief is that it could not be done."

He added: "I believe he was placed in there. I am satisfied from the evidence that I have seen from no DNA around the bath, the way it was locked, the shower screen placed back and the door closed my belief is that he was placed in there by a third party."

A reconstruction of his final attempts can also be seen here:

Mr Faulding said he “cannot get this case out of my head” adding: “I cannot say it is impossible but I think even Houdini would struggle with this one.”

Crucially, he concluded: “I believe he was placed in the bag by a third person.” He said had Mr Williams attempted it alone there would have been marks in or around the bath, which there was not.

Earlier, another expert in “unusual occurrences” and confined places suggested Mr Williams may have been able to do it but it was very unlikely. William MacKay and a colleague tried and failed 100 times although they came “reasonably close” at times.

However, it appeared Mr MacKay’s attempts did not involve a bath. Asked if it was possible, he said: “Without a lot of training probably not.”

Asked again by coroner Dr Fiona Wilcox if that meant it could not be done, he said: “I would not like to say that.
(Source )

This is also without doubt the most crucial part of the entire case, in large part due to the fact that It will either prove Gareth killed himself, accidentally or purposefully, or if he was indeed murdered as has been repeatedly suggested but so far still unproven. Gareth had no reason to kill himself though, he also showed no signs of wanting or needing to do such a thing. He had an extremely bright future ahead of him but of course, It still must be seen as a possibility.

Even so, he was seemingly looking forward to moving back to Cheltenham only a week after being found dead. According to those who've looked at this case extensively, such as Peter Faulding for example, or Coroner Fiona Wilcox, Gareth was without a doubt murdered by someone else but, due to the state of his body caused by the extreme heat and the amount of time he was left alone, we cannot prove it. Testing for certain poisonous substances can not even be done:

Giving evidence, forensic scientist Ms [Denise] Stanworth said some anaesthetics, solvents and the substance amyl nitrate may not have been detectable, because his body was left for so long.

It took a week for MI6 to investigate Mr Williams' disappearance, meaning the post-mortem exam was carried out nine days after he died.

A small amount of alcohol, and traces of the sedative GHB were found, but both were likely to have been produced by his body as it decomposed after death.

On Thursday, the inquest heard how small traces of the date rape drug GHB were found in Mr Williams’ body.

Experts were also unable to rule out a series of poisons, including cyanide, anesthetics and chloroform, because the body was so badly decomposed it was not possible to accurately test for them.

Forensic scientist Denise Stanworth said the traces of GHB were “probably” naturally occurring, which is common after death, but admitted she could not rule out it had been taken.

She later added that "we cannot rule out volatile agents" and that It was "impossible" to say if there was any sign of the legal high poppers, acknowledging that the drug "could have caused loss of consciousness or death".


Amazingly, no one at MI6, these being the people who were effectively responsible for Gareth while he was working on his year long secondment with them in London, allegedly didn't even seem to notice that he had gone missing, despite the fact that he was to attend and head a meeting the very first day he had gone missing and wasn't found until a full week later, this when any serious attempts to reach him were made and of course by then, his body had already reached severe levels of decomposition ruling out the testing of certain poisons thus preventing us from adequately investigating his death and figuring out whether It was really murder or not, or indeed whether he had been drugged and perhaps stuffed carefully into the bag.

A source close to the investigation said that on August 23 police were asked to check on Mr Williams’s flat as he had not shown up for work. Just before 6pm, a PC went to the Georgian townhouse in Alderney Street, which has been converted into four flats on four floors. Mr Williams had the top one.

The PC could not get into the house so the letting agent, W. A. Ellis, was called and a woman employee arrived with keys.

She hovered at Mr Williams’s door as the PC went inside. Within minutes he emerged quickly from the en suite bathroom and escorted the woman back downstairs. He then told her: ‘You stay here. This is now a murder scene.’

This weekend, staff at W. A. Ellis, of Knightsbridge, refused to confirm details.

A spokeswoman said: ‘36 Alderney Street is owned by a private company, New Rodina.

When he was first reached at his rented home in Pimlico London and found in the red sports holdall bag barely big enough to fit his entire body inside, oddly, It was noticed and reported that firstly the heating in his apartment was turned up to full. Especially odd as this was the middle of summer let's not forget - Why would he have his heating on to full? He wouldn't, and this was a contributing factor to the speed of the decay of his body.

Secondly, and In the early days of the investigation, It was also bizarrely reported by police officers that Gareth was not just found in a bath inside a red sports bag, but that he was found in a liquid substance which was said to have not been water, instead hailed as a "mystery fluid" at the time, and later speculated to have been to speed up decay of his body:

The policeman who found the body of MI6 code breaker Gareth Williams said it was submerged in ‘fluid’, The Mail on Sunday has learned.

An inquest heard last week that the 31-year-old spy was padlocked in a sports hold-all and left in the bath of his two-bedroom flat in Pimlico, Central London.

But the disclosure that he was also covered by liquid – not thought to be blood or water – has raised fears that a substance was used to accelerate decay and complicate toxicology tests.

This is despite a post-mortem, a second examination and toxicology tests, the results of which might not be available for weeks.

Sources close to the inquiry say the PC who found the body described it as being in ‘fluid’ when he radioed for assistance. Detectives at the scene are understood to have used the same word in their reports.

Immediately after making the discovery at the flat, the PC said: ‘This is a murder scene.’

We still don't know what really happened. Testing by actual experts in such thing's present to us around 400 failed attempts at replicating what Gareth seemed to have achieved. There was also no apparent reason for him to do such a thing either, he had no fascination with such things and there was no way of doing it without extensive training It's claimed. Odd yet, there were also no finger prints left on the bathtub, no marks, no DNA, nothing. If this was a mere accident, Gareth surely wouldn't have minded leaving such thing's on his own bathtub.

If he was murdered however and later carefully stuffed into the bag, then this would explain a great deal about his demise. This has also been the conclusion, in the face of a lack of evidence to prove such a thing beyond a reasonable doubt, by those heading the investigation as well as coroner Fiona Wilcox to be how he unfortunately met his demise.

The question must be asked though, if we are to believe there were more people involved as there appears to be, who were they?
edit on 9-5-2012 by Rising Against because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 9 2012 @ 09:25 AM

Mystery 3: The MI6 "Dark Arts" - Who Else Was Involved?..



The coroner found in a narrative verdict that Williams' death was "unnatural and likely to have been criminally mediated". The coroner was "satisfied that on the balance of probabilities that Gareth was killed unlawfully". There was insufficient evidence to give a verdict of unlawful killing. The coroner concluded that another party placed the bag containing Williams into the bath, and on the balance of probabilities locked the bag. No fingerprints were found around the bath. The coroner was critical of SIS for failing to report Williams missing for seven days, which caused extra anguish and suffering for his family, and led to the loss of forensic evidence.

The coroner rejected suicide, interest in bondage or cross-dressing, or "auto-erotic activity" being involved in Williams' death. She said his visits to bondage websites only occurred intermittently and were not of a frequency to indicate an active interest. The coroner condemned leaks about cross-dressing as a possible attempt at media manipulation.

The coroner was highly critical of the Metropolitan Police's Counter Terrorism Command (SO15), who failed to tell the senior investigating officer before the inquest began of the existence of nine memory sticks and other property in Williams' SIS office. SO15 failed to take formal statements when interviewing SIS officers. The coroner said the possible involvement of SIS staff in the death was a legitimate line of inquiry for the police.

We know that Gareth Williams, MI6 and GCHQ, was most probably murdered and was then either placed in the bag after death or was forced into it just prior, perhaps at gun point but of course this is mere speculation. We also know that if this was a mere accident, then there would be no reason for any cover up of finger prints, or marks on or around the bag and or bath - Something we've seen in this case. But it beg's the question, if there was another party involved in the death of Gareth, who were this person, or indeed people?

We know DNA was indeed recovered from the scene of the crime though, taken specifically on Gareth's hand. But, rather coincidentally it has to be said, this DNA was then taken for examination where a forensic scientist, who's name I don't know, mixed up 2 codes and wrongly tapped them into a computer thus the opportunity to examine the DNA, the one single chance, in full and identify it, who it belonged to etc, was gone. Frustrating to say the least. The company responsible have also apologized to the Williams family.

Police are taking DNA samples from up to 50 colleagues of body-in-the-bag spy Gareth Williams.
Officers strongly suspect a member of the security services, working for either MI6 or GCHQ, was in the 31-year-old's flat on the night he died.

Fifteen of his colleagues have already given their DNA to police and officers plan to take swabs from dozens more.

Investigators hope detailed analysis of a scruffy green hand-towel recovered from a shelf in his kitchen could soon result in a forensic breakthrough.

Details of the extraordinary DNA sweep emerged as a coroner ruled that Mr Williams, whose naked body was found in a locked red North Face bag in the bath of his central London apartment, was probably 'unlawfully killed'.

In a dramatic narrative verdict, Dr Fiona Wilcox told Westminster coroner's court it was a 'legitimate line of inquiry' that the codebreaker was killed by a colleague, as he would only have let someone he trusted into his home.

'The cause of his death was unnatural and likely to have been criminally mediated,' she said. 'I am therefore satisfied that on the balance of probabilities Gareth was killed unlawfully.'

Dr Wilcox said serious questions remain over an iPhone of Mr Williams's that was mysteriously wiped of all data just hours before he died in August 2010.

Oddly though, there does seem to be someone, a couple to be specific, who the police initially had in their sights and are still seemingly keen to talk to, to this very day in fact. A couple who haven't been mentioned all that much in the media however. Their also the only people believed to be unaccounted for in recent months who were physically seen at Gareth Williams' secret services given flat on Alderney Street, a "young Mediterranean man and woman", police drawings of which can be found here:


To this day they've remained unidentified and are still being sought out, and known solely as the young Mediterranean couple, said to have been approximately 20 - 30 years of age, and one of the only people sighted at the home of spy Gareth Williams. Taking into consideration what we now know that happened to Gareth, they've become likely suspects in a murder case and to this day, almost 2 years forward now, have yet to come forward and claim any innocence of what they've been accused of.

It's also been claimed by a waitress who works nearby to Gareth's home by the name of Magdalena Kolakowska that Gareth even quite often met with a couple at the cafe where she works on a regular basis, they spoke for a short while, and then left after a few minutes, everytime.

Polish waitress Magdalena Kolakowska, 24, recalled that Mr Williams would sit at the back of the dimly lit cafe ‘so he could keep an eye on the door’.

Ordering an Americano coffee, he then ‘waited for the couple to approach his table and speak to him’. Miss Kolakowska added: ‘They would come up to him as if they had suddenly just seen him and say, “Hi.” They would speak to him for two or three minutes and go. They would never sit down or have a coffee with him.’

In all, she recalls about eight such encounters. She could not remember any items passing between them and heard nothing of their conversations because all three spoke in low voices.

But it was the brevity of the meetings – coupled with their regularity – that struck staff as odd. They assumed that Mr Williams, who was dressed casually, was local.

Last week, police announced they were seeking a man and a woman, both of Mediterranean appearance, who called at Mr Williams’ home late one evening in June or July.

Although the man and woman at the cafe are roughly the same age as the couple being sought by police, staff say they did not look Mediterranean.

Of course, this could be an interesting coincidence, or the could be the real couple and they very well could've played a part in the death of Williams, we just don't know. They seem to be the only people currently unaccounted for though and they've yet to come forward to this very day. According to the remaining Williams family, he was undoubtedly murdered and was done so by the secret service "darks arts", claiming that he was murdered by other Intelligence agencies and the scene of the crime was then later cleared of all finger prints in an apparent cover-up.

According to the family of Gareth:

Anthony O’Toole, representing the Williams family, said that if the spy had not locked the bag himself, there was “a high probability that there was a third party present in the flat” at the time.

Despite a painstaking forensic examination of the flat, no forensic evidence of any such third party was found.
Mr O’Toole said this suggested that: “The unknown third party was a member of some agency specialising in the dark arts of the secret services, and perhaps evidence was removed from the scene post mortem by an expert in those dark arts.”

Outside the hearing, he said the family did not know whether the “third party” might have belonged to a British or foreign agency, raising the possibility that one of Williams’ own MI6 colleagues could have been involved, either in his death or the alleged cover-up.

He said Williams’ family did not know what his work involved, but had now been told that “he had attended two operational development courses and with effect from March 18, 2010 he could be operationally deployed”.
He said MI6 had issued a “bland statement” that his death was unrelated to his work and that the risk to him was “low” but added: “To properly explore the circumstances of the death we do need to know something of the deceased’s work.”
(Source)< br />
Was Gareth Williams murdered? Yes, in my opinion he almost certainly was. The reason for it? Well we just don't know as of right now. Information about his line of work is being withheld, and, as far as I'm aware anyway, there's little to no information on the activity of data that was removed from his iphone prior to his death as well as a great deal more in this case.

It truly is a classic spy thriller it seems, one full of secrecy, full of interesting characters, such as the young couple who are potentially involved but to what extent is unknown for example, full of mystery and unfortunately It involves the potential murder of a young man caught right in the middle of it all.

Thanks to all of those who took the time to read this thread, It is much appreciated and I'd certainly like to hear your thoughts on the case involving the death of Gareth Williams.

edit on 9-5-2012 by Rising Against because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 9 2012 @ 09:25 AM

Sources & Links


- Gareth Williams timeline: how the mystery of the 'spy in the bag' unfolded

- Secret meeting between MI6 and police hours after discovery of spy Gareth Williams's death

- MI6 spy Gareth Williams murder: police hunt for Mediterranean couple

- MI6 Spy 'Died From Suffocation Or Poisoning'

- Was body of MI6 spy submerged in mystery fluid to speed up decay?

- Wikipedia - The Death of Gareth Williams

- MI6 officer Gareth Williams and the 'missing hours' before his death

- Was MI6 spy-in-a-bag Gareth Williams killed by 'secret service dark arts'?

- Spy Inquest Ends In More Questions Than Answers

- Gareth Williams inquest exposes police difficulties when MI6 is involved

- Spy-in-the-bag death: Coroner refuses to rule out MI6 involvement as she warns mystery is 'unlikely to be explained'

- 'Highly unlikely' death of MI6 spy Gareth Williams related to bondage

- The secret double identity of murdered spy: Friend insists Gareth Williams was not gay - and was being trained by MI6 for undercover role

- Gareth Williams: an enigma, in life and death

- The death of MI6 spy Gareth Williams was 'criminally mediated'

- Gareth Williams profile: the codebreaker with a secret double life

- Gareth Williams verdict: the case reviewed

- Gareth Williams verdict: unanswered questions

- 'British spy' found dead identified as Foreign Office worker

- Gareth Williams' Evidence Not Shared

- Case: MI6 spy mystery: Gareth Williams

- Did dead MI6 spy zip HIMSELF into sports bag in bizarre sex game that went terribly wrong?

- MI6 spy inquest: 'even Houdini could not have locked himself in the bag'

- Clues point to sex game: MI6 spy Gareth Williams had 'no traces of foreign substances' in his body which was found zipped in a sportsbag

- DNA from two others found on bag holding body of MI6 spy Gareth Williams, inquest told, but not enough to identify them

- Government Communications Headquarters

edit on 9-5-2012 by Rising Against because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 9 2012 @ 09:37 AM
The poor man has obviously seen or been involved in somthing he was not supposed to be privy too. MI6 gets up to some dodgy stuff, guess we will never know eh? My heart goes out to his family.
edit on 9-5-2012 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 9 2012 @ 10:06 AM
reply to post by andy06shake

I think It's possible, and we already know for sure he was involved in some secretive projects and I highlighted them in my opening posts too.

It's very possible we'll never know what happened to him as well, someone coroner Fiona Williams has even said publicly in recent weeks, but I still think we have to keep searching for some answers independently. Information is still coming out about this case after all, as it is still quite recent, and investigations are continuing so you never know what you'll find. We have a right to know what really happened there in my opinion, as does his family.

posted on May, 9 2012 @ 10:17 AM
reply to post by Rising Against

1) He was most definitely murdered.
2) No I havn't heard anything about it; where's the UK again? (American media doesn't know you guys exist)
3) that took forever to read

the 4 times viewing bondage, were they recent, say with the last 4 months of his life? In this case, couldn't anyone knowing how to get into the safe house, and knowing his schedule, have looked it up for him after pre-meditating his murder? Easy enough?

Then about the clothes. If the shoes were really his sisters size and no other women's shoes present that could fit him, then how the heck was he going to "dress up." Everyone who has even a slight bit of flare knows shoes are the top accessary (end feminine tone)

Next the gay bars. Have they released any proof of this? Are there not CCTV cameras all over the place?

Ok, so I think someone came over and they had drinks, or maybe they had a drink. Maybe a spot o tea
sorry had to. Probably some GHB tea.

Call some buddies over to perform your dark ritual, and murder him. Next complete the ritual, by public embarrasment of the poor guy. Gotta get him naked, in the bag, and locked.

Oh and then since it's a safe house, and the guy didn't have friends, so you just "forget" he's there...

Crazy Stuff. Sick...
edit on 5/9/2012 by Dustytoad because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 9 2012 @ 10:25 AM
This has all the indications of a murder just like what happened to David Kelly.

Actually looking back in history once this countries intelligence agencies have finished with someone, they just s*** all over them.

I will leave you with another name.

Alan Turing

food for thought hey ?

posted on May, 9 2012 @ 10:33 AM
Great thread RA. this has been quite a fascinating case. The absurdity of the tests with the hold all bag, were quite strange. As if someone is going to lock themselves in a hold all bag and then lock it from the inside? Blatantly obvious there were others involved.

I believe it's one of those cases where you will never get a proper explanation.

posted on May, 9 2012 @ 10:45 AM
reply to post by woodwardjnr

I have to be honest here, there's a couple of regular ATS members from the UK who I was really hoping would take the time to post in this thread.. you was one of them. Thanks woodwardjnr.

It's true, the lock is a really interesting part of this entire case, and is, excuse the pun btw, really key to everything here. I tried to go with it at first, I really did, but once you get deeper and deeper into this case you start to realize it really can't be the work of just Gareth, no way. Technically however, it is possible for someone to lock the bag from the inside and replicate the results, they did after all test it and they also proved it could be done. With a person of Gareths size on the other hand, well that's another story and in fact resulted in around 400 failed attempts by actual experts in confined spaces, Peter Faulding for example.

There was also no marks around the bath, no finger prints, no DNA, no nothing - apart from the small part of DNA found on his hand but was "accidentally" and conveniently destroyed before testing could be done - that was found there or on the bag as far as I know. If this was just Gareth, I find it hard to believe he would do an extensive clean-up and then carefully get into the bag without leaving a single mark present - No, I'd call it impossible and incredibly unlikely. I really do think there just had to be another person, or persons, involved now, and as far as I can find the "Mediterranean couple" are the only people unaccounted for that have been seen at his flat.

Hopefully we'll get some answers in the coming weeks/months/years. I doubt we'll get the answers we want though but I guess we can hope. The fact that the investigators have been so open about not just the possibility of murder but a murder involving other MI6 agents has given me a bit of faith admittedly..

posted on May, 9 2012 @ 10:50 AM
My guess would be that as a cryptographer for GCHQ he decoded something that he shouldn't have known about and paid the price.

Like David Kelly, we'll probably never get a satisfactory answer, especially from a laughingly called "public" inquest.

posted on May, 9 2012 @ 10:54 AM
Well presented piece Rising, this is one I can't fathom out, I've been following it since it broke.

1) Was it suicide and whoever found him created a murder scene with the intentions of discrediting Mi6, or even Mi6 themselves for some other purpose.

2) Was it murder by Mi6 because he knew something he shouldn't.

3) Was it murder by a 3rd party with whom Gareth was associated with outside of Mi6

4) Was it murder by a 3rd party with whom Gareth was associated with inside of Mi6, or involved in a case he was working on.

Personally, I am going to go with 4, and due to the nature of it certain things were "tampered" with which made Mi6 look guilty in the eyes of those who ask questions.

Guess we may never know.

posted on May, 9 2012 @ 11:00 AM
A very good read and mystery i remember hearing about this after they had found his body and being interested in this case, i also remember hearing that it was most likely a suicide and that it had nothing to do with his work. (from America)

I find it hard to believe that it could be a suicide the facts just dont add up. To get into the bag by ones self without leaving a finger print or dna in the bath tub let alone the bathroom just doesn't work for me. Also all of his phones had been wiped clean. assuming i did read that correctly, and something had been backed up to a laptop, To me this sounds like he was aware that this was coming and was covering his tracks/hiding something, or his killers were trying to hide something or create a possible double agent scenario by doing so. Did the police find the laptop? were they able to find what was backed up to it? If the laptop is missing i would say it was the biggest piece of evidence in this case as it contained something that needed to be removed.

just some thoughts and thank you for bringing this case back into my mind and to other critical thinkers here at ATS.

posted on May, 9 2012 @ 11:03 AM
It would be interesting to know what he was currently working on and why he had received 'operational development training' and why a code breaker and cypher expert and who was something of a boffin type was about to be 'operationally deployed'?

Did the Coroner consider his current work relevant and did she ask either of the above questions?

Did anyone investigate the possibility that he was about to expose something?
Either something inappropriate about a colleague either internally or possibly to the Press?

Random speculations I know but surely legitimate questions given circumstances surrounding the death of this man and considering his line of work etc.

Did they ask MI6 why it waited so long to report him missing?

Did they investigate the source of the leaks to the Press about his alleged 'private life' etc.

Seems to me that there's still some mileage left in this case and if the authorities really wanted to get to the bottom of it then there are quite a few lines of enquiry open.
edit on 9/5/12 by Freeborn because: Spelling, grammar, clarity etc

posted on May, 9 2012 @ 11:11 AM
reply to post by Freeborn

According to the Telegraph newspaper:

Anthony O’Toole, representing the Williams family, said that if the spy had not locked the bag himself, there was “a high probability that there was a third party present in the flat” at the time.

Despite a painstaking forensic examination of the flat, no forensic evidence of any such third party was found.

Mr O’Toole said this suggested that: “The unknown third party was a member of some agency specialising in the dark arts of the secret services, and perhaps evidence was removed from the scene post mortem by an expert in those dark arts.”

Outside the hearing, he said the family did not know whether the “third party” might have belonged to a British or foreign agency, raising the possibility that one of Williams’ own MI6 colleagues could have been involved, either in his death or the alleged cover-up.

He said Williams’ family did not know what his work involved, but had now been told that “he had attended two operational development courses and with effect from March 18, 2010 he could be operationally deployed”.

He said MI6 had issued a “bland statement” that his death was unrelated to his work and that the risk to him was “low” but added: “To properly explore the circumstances of the death we do need to know something of the deceased’s work.”

As far as I can find, information on what his work was is scarce. All I can find is from a friend who claims he was being prepared for undercover work but I'm kind of skeptical of that taking into consideration his personality. I mean surely he would be the last person for such a thing. It's still a potential possibility though in my opinion.

Here's where this was claimed though anyway:

It's also worth pointing out that I was able to find some info on some of his past secret projects as well, here it is:

‘He was involved in some very sensitive projects, known as codeword protected,’ said a security expert.

‘This meant that only the people in his cell would know what he was working on, and nobody else in his organisation. ‘You are signed in to these projects and once you finish one you are signed out and you no longer have access to any data or news about what is happening in the project.’ Mr Williams – a child prodigy who had a degree in maths at 17 and then a PhD in the subject – was part of a team that created devices which ‘hook’ on to mobiles and laptops.

‘It is an aggressive form of Bluetooth or similar wireless technology,’ said the security expert.
He said such devices would be used by spies on the ground to steal data from the handsets of unsuspecting terrorists, organised criminals or officers from rival intelligence agencies.

‘Traditionally, there has been a separation of MI6 and GCHQ,’ said the expert. ‘MI6 has been full of the James Bond types working on the ground and GCHQ is filled with boffins with beards who are doing their scientific stuff. ‘But recently there has been a merger of these agencies’ work and Williams was at the forefront of that. This was why he was on secondment to MI6.’

posted on May, 9 2012 @ 11:26 AM
reply to post by Rising Against

Surely between MI6 and GCHQ they could piece together what he was working on....otherwise the potential for misuse, rogue useage etc is ridiculously high.

He would not have received 'operational training' if he was not going to be operationally deployed.
It makes no sense at all.

So what time of operation would a man with his skill set be needed on?

Someone within the security services must know why he was trained and what he was working on.

It is reasonable to assume that those responsible for the leaks to the Press about Williams 'private life' etc are somehow involved in either the cover-up of his death or possibly even responsible for his death.
Surely it would be pertinent to investigate thoroughly the source of these leaks in an effort to determine exactly how involved these sources are.

My point is that if the Police / Government / Security Services or whoever were determined enough to investigate this case thoroughly then there still seems to be quite a few loose ends which provide legitimate lines of enquiry.....if a simpleton, layman like myself see's that then I am sure that those more expreineced and knowledgeable in detective / intellingence work can see that too.

If TPTB choose not to pursue this further then what does that tell us?

posted on May, 9 2012 @ 01:13 PM
Great thread OP.

It isn't just many Americans who aren't aware of Gareth Williams, but even a lot of Brits have never heard of this man's name (due to the convenient low/non-existant coverage of this case in MSM).

The fact he was found naked in a bag zipped & locked from the outside, in his bathtub should be enough proof that foul play was at hand.

Put that together with his links with MI6, then it is a cause for suspicion.

So I'm only like half way through reading, but just wanted to say thanks for providing some good info & research on the case.


posted on May, 9 2012 @ 02:28 PM
reply to post by Freeborn

Freeborn, you may be interested to read up on how MI6 have handled this case. From what I know they've been more than keen to withhold information whenever possible:

The police officer in charge of the investigation into Gareth Williams' death has revealed she was unaware nine memory sticks and a North Face holdall were found among the spy's belongings at MI6 headquarters.

Detective Chief Inspector Jackie Sebire, appearing for the second time at Mr Williams' inquest, told the coroner she did not know about the memory sticks or their contents until this morning.

"Had I known about their existence, I would have expected them to be disclosed and any relavent information to be sent to my team," she said.

It's not clear what relevance if any the sticks and the bag have to the investigation into Mr Williams' death, but DCI Sebire said that MI6 should have told her about their existence.

The police investigation into Gareth Williams' death has always been somewhat restricted by issues of national security.

The investigating team did not get direct access to some aspects of Mr Williams' professional life.

Instead, the Metropolitan Police's counter terrorism command, SO15, which has specialist security clearance, acted as a conduit between MI6 and the investigation team.

They liaised with MI6 and passed relevant information on to the investigation team.

It's not been made clear whether or not SO15 were aware of the memory sticks and the bag or whether MI6 withheld information from them too.

Anthony O'Toole, the Williams' family lawyer, asked DCI Sebire if she should have been told about the belongings in 2010.

DCI Sebire told Westminster Coroner's Court: "I would have expected to have been told."

It was also disclosed that MI6 searched some of Mr Williams' "electronic media" without telling the police.

It was only last week if I remember right that Jackie was informed about the memory sticks in fact. What else has been withheld from those trying to investigate I wonder.

posted on May, 9 2012 @ 02:50 PM
reply to post by SmoKeyHaZe

To be fair this has been all over the BBC News website for quite some time now and reasonably in depth reports can still be accessed, or at least they could this morning.

It has also been reported on both BBC News and ITN but to what extent I'm not really sure and I rarely read newspapers for anything nowadays other than horse racing, sudoku and the occassional oggle at Page 3 so I can't really comment on how much coverage it's hade in the Press.

I think that as usual it's an excellent thread from RA and the video of the man trying to get in the bag in the bath really brought home the absurdity of it all.

reply to post by Rising Against

I think it's pretty evident that MI6 and SO15 have both to varying degrees at least been guilty of conspiring to mislead the investigation and even cover up events surrounding this man's death and related issues.

If the authorities truly wanted to find out exactly what happened to Mr Williams and why it happened then it could quite easily instruct that a cross department investigative enquiry be set up with the specific aim of determining all the facts surrounding the case.
It may even transpire that for reasons of 'national security etc' certain information will have to be witheld from the public domain for a period of time, but we need to know that - or more importantly and relevant - his family deserve to know that.

What confuses me slightly is why the Police were actively pursuing the investigation?
If there was an official 'cover up' then one would have expected the Police to be in the loop and all the details would fit together giving a nice story for public consumption.
But that's not the case and the Police and The Coroner are expressing their suspicions about the case.
This leads to suspect that it may be elements within the security services that are withholding information etc and not the security services themselves.

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