Our Disconnect from Nature

For much of human history, the vast majority of people lived and worked. They may have been ignorant of the broader world, and they may have had weird mythologies, but at least they understood the process of growing food, and how humans need to interact with nature. The elite who dabbled in high court intrigue were in a somewhat different world. Although, it still wasn't all that hard to trace where most things came from.

However, since the industrial revolution many more people have become increasingly disconnected from nature. Do you know where the things you own were originally made? Do you really understand how the economy or society works?

Our mental models of the how world works are based upon what we can personally observe. How can we understand the world, and how it interacts with nature when we ignorant of where things are made, or how things happen? How can we gain a better grasp of how the decisions we make actually end up affecting the world, from which we are so disconnected?

[edit on 29-9-2004 by crontab]

we cant, they have no effect, due to government control. over population and expansion of modern engineering. nature is all but erased from our collective humanity. there is a river and bushel near my house. the water is green and all of bushes are littered with beer cans and trash.for such a vast amount of people working in a increasingly producitve society you dont need nature. if you have ever been to california you would see the stark contrast of civilization and natural produced goods. here in nor cal you have bustling cities with dark plumes of smog lingering overhead. bright lights, beef jerky, miles upon miles of empty roads and parking lots. only nature around are a few dirt trails, and some chinsy man made parks. perhaps one day you say lets go to so cal. make the drive down south you will see what seems like hundreds of miles of nothing but grass and farmland with no civilazation in sight. then poof back to the condensed loud agitating go go go bustling cityscape. all we really have anymore are the state parks. those too are slowling being surrounded by the urban expansions. imo our way of life is totaly inefficient and unesesary, there is so much wasted space that goes completely neglected.

I think you raise some questions well worth thinking about. Our building technology and factory farming technology has reached a point where our cities can replace nature with an artificial human beehive. Rather than living a "lifestyle" that brings them into contact with nature, people become a cog in the machine.

But what is "natural?" I certainly don't want to be out in my back yard trying to scratch up something to eat.

Our technology, and the ability it gives us to build on the discoveries of previous generations, drives our society. As that technology changes, our culture changes, and our lifestyles change.

Sometimes that's a good thing. I think it's great that I can sit here at my computer and talk to people all over the world. But I still go out and interact with real people in the natural world. It's important not to get lost in the technology.

I guess that's the question: does technology serve the people and inhance personal relations and lifestyle, or do the people serve the tech.

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i think we get stuck to the technology because our progression of technological advances has left us no other option. imo we have built up tech a great ammount but in turn have neglected any incorperation of nature. there is the possibilitie for nature all around but all we have are highways and buildings. all of the natural surroundings are secluded and out of the way. instead we opt for man made parks and commercial buildings. i believe a balance of nature and tech can be achieved, its just the generations before us were niave in not considering this.

Originally posted by cimmerius
But what is "natural?" I certainly don't want to be out in my back yard trying to scratch up something to eat.

I don't just mean to talk about natural things, but about what we can understand. Do you fully understand how your computer works? Do you know where it came from? If you knew how your computer was made from scratch, I would say that you understand how you are connected to nature.

I'm not just talking about high tech, but about high tech we that very few, or no one truly understands. I'm not saying we need to abandon high tech stuff, but that more people should understand it. I think knowing where everything you own comes from, and how it is made.

I suppose the central dillemma I'm trying to deal with is the difference between the development of new technology, and general knowledge of how things work. Some specialists, generally engineers, create a new technology. They then put it together into some sort of "black box" packaged solution, but other people aren't able to really see where it came from.

what does micro chip processing plants, and computer assembly lines have to with nature? i mean understanding how they all work and our brought together is a product of education! people study those kind of things for years, thats what sites like this are for, to share and obtain knowlegde.

Originally posted by sturod84
what does micro chip processing plants, and computer assembly lines have to with nature? i mean understanding how they all work and our brought together is a product of education! people study those kind of things for years, thats what sites like this are for, to share and obtain knowlegde.

Nature consists of all those things, which aren't created by man. Since the universe, existed before man was around, all things around us must be traced back to nature in some way. Chip processing plants use many resources, or rare minerals, that are mined out of the earth during some stage of the process.

In the case of food, it would just be acknowledging the role of the soil, sun, etc. in going into the food. In the case of the farmer, who directly picks the plants from the field, the whole process of where stuff comes from is very natural. Everything, we have is connected back to natural processes in some way, but its connection to nature is hidden by our societies complexities and by hyper-specialization.

Even the most primitive farmer plants the crops, and controls what will be grown in the field. This aspect is not only less natural, than any modern process. However, while engaged in this process the farmer sees the natural factors, which cause the crops to grow, much more readily than we do in many of todays products.

I don't just mean to talk about natural things, but about what we can understand. Do you fully understand how your computer works? Do you know where it came from? If you knew how your computer was made from scratch, I would say that you understand how you are connected to nature.

OK, I think I see what you're saying. Ya, there are a ton of things we take for granted, not just machines and how they work, but even basic skills. How many people learn to spell today when we have spell-check? How many can do long-division without a calculator? People should know basic skills and the fundamentals of how machines work and where they come from.

That would seem to be a function of our education system, which seems to have enough trouble educating people to read and write. But it would be a great idea to teach at least the general concepts: where raw materials come from, how they are refined, shaped and maunfactured into components that are then assembled. A good education in fundamentals at least prepares you to inquire more deeply into things you need to know more about.
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Originally posted by cimmerius
[Ya, there are a ton of things we take for granted, not just machines and how they work, but even basic skills....That would seem to be a function of our education system, which seems to have enough trouble educating people to read and write.

The educational system is a part of this, but I really think it is part of a broader issue. There are many things which keep people from understanding where things actually come from. In the ancient world, an educational system wasn't neccessary to understand where things comes from. The problem with this complex world is that everyone is making decisions, whose implications they don't understand. For instance people fall for investment scams, because they don't understand investments. People also buy products, which causes environmental damage they are against, because they are ignorant of the consequences of their actions. Often, the only distinguishing features are those that are mentioned in advertisements.

People could be better educated in understanding complex in systems, by learning more about things like systems theory. However, selective ignorance of the broader world is in itself a form of slavery. Decisions can only be made on available information, and when the immediate information is confined, freedom of action is inherently limited. Some have commented that these limitations embraced by our educational are intentionally part of our current system (see John Taylor Gatto's Underground History of American Education available online).

Regional specialization is another problem. When things are manufactured thousands of miles away from where you live, it is difficult to learn about the manufacturing process. As Jane Jacobs points out in many of her books on cities, the growth and success of cities is highly dependent on their ability to copy technology and manufacturing processes from other cities. However, encouraged by the world's most powerful economists, the we have moved to a centralized system, where countries, and regions are supposed to specialize. The same is true for agriculture. These things take people further away from the producers. In this process many intemediaries disconnect consumers from original producers.

A lot of this has been a symptom of central planning by top governmental and financial institutions. Like the Soviet Union, the western economy has in many respects the free market, centered around small businesses, in favor of an economy which depends more on large corporations. Rather than build a smaller factory in every city, these large corporations tend towards large factories, which are easier for a centralized management to plan. These organization have maintained their dominance through superior access to capitol, lawyers, and other advantages of government access.

To start the computer was devolped by two guy in a garage in Cupertino California, they started with the Apple computer. The silicon valley moved into high gear, prices went through the roof on property and dumping of toxic waste in the area. The glut of disinformation that continues to divide us, only makes man more agumentative. The over use of drugging our own (younger generation) has added immersurably amount of failure in our society. I can understand someone wanting to know the process of manufacturing, or the creative force behind it. Yet in a society that moves so fast there isn't time. Back to Nature just step outside and look around its still there, the sun still sets and the birds still sing. The sluggishness of mind and the indiffernce to the truth is much to blame as stated above.
Philosophizing away the peculiarity and reducing things to the level of mere naturalism, isn't really bad. Volunteering your time to pull weeds in your own yard can keep you intouch with nature. Turning off your system can help. Inbetween the lines here I see someone asking this did the computer technology come from space aliens...... alrighty than...........
The answer (no clue).............

Due to our lack of compassion for nature, nature owes us a very very big beating........!

Due to our lack of compassion for nature, nature owes us a very very big beating........!

that reminds me of a aqua teen hunger force episode, revenge of the trees. shake dumps a 100 gallons of grease into the nature, and the trees take him and carl. they use carl as a post it note, and shake on trial. they lose the case due to their lack of evidence(they provide a log to pass off as evidence) it is a truely hilarious episode.

Originally posted by crontab
In the case of food, it would just be acknowledging the role of the soil, sun, etc. in going into the food. In the case of the farmer, who directly picks the plants from the field, the whole process of where stuff comes from is very natural. Everything, we have is connected back to natural processes in some way, but its connection to nature is hidden by our societies complexities and by hyper-specialization.

Yeah, when some people think that food grows in supermarket desk that tells all what's needed.


Also it looks like lot of people from this western "civilized" world have very bad hallucinations about human being all-powerful.