The Rise Of Socialism And How Capitalism Ran Out Of Other Peoples Money.

reply to post by Germanicus


If socialism is coming and can't be stopped them why pitch it?

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

I deal with individuals, and most are far brighter than you.

Thanks. Most people I deal with are more polite than you.

And an individual and the masses are two different things. Hitler covers the topic of propaganda quite well in Mein Kampf. I agree with what he says,the masses are stupid. Look how effective Hitlers propaganda was. Very effective. Look at any effective propaganda,always short and simple enough for any moron to take in.

And maybe life isnt a competition. Maybe some dont want to "compete".But that doesnt mean they are lazy or jealous.

And how much do you really care about your little pot of gold? Would you be in Spain right now if they were fighting the civil war? Will you fight for Capitalism when it comes time? The time is coming because the Corporatists wont just sit back while we Nationalize everything. The time will come.

Originally posted by interupt42
reply to post by Germanicus

 

If socialism is coming and can't be stopped them why pitch it?

You have to make the apple drop.

And the sooner the better.

reply to post by Germanicus


I am not clear why someone who openly agrees with Hitler should believe anyone should be polite to them. If you want to distinguish a collective from the individuals who make up that collective, then I suppose all collectives are stupid, mindless blobs of masses. Of course, it goes without saying that any socialist agenda is highly dependent upon the masses, and ultimately has to deal with the individuals who oppose it. This is why you speak of armies, isn't it? This is the purpose of this thread, isn't it? To threaten the individuals who oppose the socialist agenda?

Here's the deal, sport. Your dismal view of the masses misses the point that all human masses consists of individuals, and while you are foolishly presuming the masses to be stupid, there will be plenty of individuals who will ultimately outsmart you and your socialist army. Brains are always more powerful than brawn.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by Germanicus

 

I am not clear why someone who openly agrees with Hitler should believe anyone should be polite to them. If you want to distinguish a collective from the individuals who make up that collective, then I suppose all collectives are stupid, mindless blobs of masses. Of course, it goes without saying that any socialist agenda is highly dependent upon the masses, and ultimately has to deal with the individuals who oppose it. This is why you speak of armies, isn't it? This is the purpose of this thread, isn't it? To threaten the individuals who oppose the socialist agenda?

Here's the deal, sport. Your dismal view of the masses misses the point that all human masses consists of individuals, and while you are foolishly presuming the masses to be stupid, there will be plenty of individuals who will ultimately outsmart you and your socialist army. Brains are always more powerful than brawn.

Yes,the purpose of my thread is to test toast reactions to the idea of Nationalization. Nationalization is the key.
And I agree with Hitler on alot. I am for Autarky and National Socialism. Hitler turned Germany around from a basket case to the strongest economy in Europe in only 4 years. National Socialism works.

And I dont think I miss the point at all old chap. The individual is not an individual when he is part of the masses.

And Im glad you get brawn from this thread. Another thing that turns people off Socialism is that they think a Socialist is just a limp wristed liberal wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt. Socialists are not dirty lazy hippies that want free money. They are also not stupid. You may find me to be stupid but Socialism has plenty of brains behind it.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by Germanicus

 

I am not clear why someone who openly agrees with Hitler should believe anyone should be polite to them. If you want to distinguish a collective from the individuals who make up that collective, then I suppose all collectives are stupid, mindless blobs of masses. Of course, it goes without saying that any socialist agenda is highly dependent upon the masses, and ultimately has to deal with the individuals who oppose it. This is why you speak of armies, isn't it? This is the purpose of this thread, isn't it? To threaten the individuals who oppose the socialist agenda?

Here's the deal, sport. Your dismal view of the masses misses the point that all human masses consists of individuals, and while you are foolishly presuming the masses to be stupid, there will be plenty of individuals who will ultimately outsmart you and your socialist army. Brains are always more powerful than brawn.

Yes,the purpose of my thread is to test toast reactions to the idea of Nationalization. Nationalization is the key.
And I agree with Hitler on alot. I am for Autarky and National Socialism. Hitler turned Germany around from a basket case to the strongest economy in Europe in only 4 years. National Socialism works.

And I dont think I miss the point at all old chap. The individual is not an individual when he is part of the masses.

And Im glad you get brawn from this thread. Another thing that turns people off Socialism is that they think a Socialist is just a limp wristed liberal wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt. Socialists are not dirty lazy hippies that want free money. They are also not stupid. You may find me to be stupid but Socialism has plenty of brains behind it.

Edit- And I guess I want someone to tell me why Nationalization is a bad idea. I want to hear all arguments against so I know what they are. I want someone to do more than point to Communist Russia or give me an exhausted Thatcher quote. I dont think anyone will change my mind but I like to know how the enemy thinks.

reply to post by Germanicus


Which is precisely why the individual should avoid the masses at all costs. This is not to say individuals should avoid community, but the masses as defined my Marx is a pointless entity designed to empower tyrants.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by Germanicus

 

Which is precisely why the individual should avoid the masses at all costs. This is not to say individuals should avoid community, but the masses as defined my Marx is a pointless entity designed to empower tyrants.

I agree. I think the Communist Manifesto is an arrogant and aggressive appeal to the weak and desperate. But the masses vote and the masses are the power. People are angry at career politicians,people are angry at traditional parties,people are angry at the Corporatist,people are angry at the Banker. Conditions are perfect for Socialism to be embraced by the masses. The rich are the ones that will need to be convinced. The poor will be easy. Socialists must convince wealthy conservatives that they are workers. We must convince wealthy conservatives that earning 200k a year or owning a small business does not make them a capitalist. They must know that unless they are a banker or corporatist,they are a worker. Conservatives and the right are the ones we need to win over. I think that a Market Socialism set up that had Nationalized Public Utilities and Energy would be a great pilot. That way the conservative can see that the Socialists arent coming for them,the socialists are coming for the politician's,the corporatist and the banker.

Originally posted by asen_y2k
reply to post by Germanicus

 

The resourced based economy as describe by the Venus project is just an evolved form of socialism, which has complete freedoms, abundance for everyone, and no use of money or barter.

When socialism was described, humanity did not have advanced robotics or computers, so all the work had to be done my humans and a reward for the difficult work was in the form of money. Now that we have technology, let it be the slave.

But not many people are aware of this evolved form of socialism.

I think you have a credible idea. I think implementation would be especially hard. How do you decide who gets the house overlooking the ocean? Or who gets to eat the caviar? Resources are limited. Not everyone could just grab a steak or lobster for dinner each night.

We need a mix. I am for socializing the food, utility healthcare, modest housing, and telecom industries. All these services should be provided without a profit to a private owner. The employees that actually provide the services and come up with innovation should be rewarded accordingly. Everything else can be pure capitalist until it reaches a saturation point, where it becomes an integral part of life. Then it gets rolled into the socialistic system. As for money, it will still be needed. Get rid of fractional reserve banking and stop issuing money with debt attached and it will lose much of it's evil.

reply to post by Germanicus


In the United States there exists both a federal and 50 State Constitutions that are decidedly undemocratic in their republics. This is so to reign in the tyranny of the majority, and to ensure that every individual can turn to the state for protection of their rights. There are many tyrants who love to scream "rock the vote", but all it takes is one bright individual to take down that entire system.

It is amusing how you rely so heavily upon the very masses you declare to be idiots.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by Germanicus

 

In the United States there exists both a federal and 50 State Constitutions that are decidedly undemocratic in their republics. This is so to reign in the tyranny of the majority, and to ensure that every individual can turn to the state for protection of their rights. There are many tyrants who love to scream "rock the vote", but all it takes is one bright individual to take down that entire system.

It is amusing how you rely so heavily upon the very masses you declare to be idiots.

Well they arent all idiots. It is a bit funny though hey.

Those idiots need to be saved from Capitalism,god knows they wont save themselves. Socialism will save the day,I have no doubt.

Edit- And the way I see it America is set up so the majority have no power. Nobody seems to have any power. Nothing ever seems to get done. It needs to be opened up so the elected President can actually deliver on his promises instead of having the luxury of blaming congress. And the Obamacare thing shows that you cant always turn to the state to protect you from the Federal Government. I hope they hold it up but they might not. No promised 'public option' from Obama the liar anyway.

But anyway,the majority is majority. What the majority wants,the majority should get. If the Capitalists dont like it they can move in with friends in China or Saudi Arabia or somewhere.

reply to post by Germanicus


You fancy yourself a Stalin, a Mao or perhaps a thug like Castro or Che?

Stalin = An estimated 40 to 60 million dead.
Mao = An estimated 40 to 70 million dead.

Castro and Che also killed many innocent people to gain their power.

Real Socialism always leads to Dictators and great suffering by the people. Only systems based on the Free Market have ever produced a Free Society. You live off government handouts, the government own you as slaves. Are you a willing slave or a slave master?

I see in one post you use the term Nationalism? Shades of Stalin / Mao Batman

Usually this comes from people who don't work or participate, the same ones who demand the handouts from money stolen from those who did the work. Do you work? Do you support yourself?

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by Germanicus

 

You fancy yourself a Stalin, a Mao or perhaps a thug like Castro or Che?

Stalin = An estimated 40 to 60 million dead.
Mao = An estimated 40 to 70 million dead.

Castro and Che also killed many innocent people to gain their power.

Real Socialism always leads to Dictators and great suffering by the people. Only systems based on the Free Market have ever produced a Free Society. You live off government handouts, the government own you as slaves. Are you a willing slave or a slave master?

I see in one post you use the term Nationalism? Shades of Stalin / Mao Batman

Usually this comes from people who don't work or participate, the same ones who demand the handouts from money stolen from those who did the work. Do you work? Do you support yourself?

I like Hitler more than Stalin or Mao. He killed some people too. Its not so much the killing that draws me though. Its the economics. National Socialism is awesome. National Socialism without the racism would be perfect.

And socialism is not "government handouts". Socialists are workers. They work. You are a taxpaying consumer slave right now under capitalism. Capitalism also has created an environment where people must live on handouts because the Capitalist has sent all the jobs to China.

And yes I work. So Im not lazy. Im also not jealous. I just have a social conscience.

Edit- Lincoln was a mass murderer. Can I like things about him? Julius Caeser? The capitalists do alot of killing too you know. They just make sure they kill people in other countries. The Capitalists still have slaves too,they just keep them in third world countries. Capitalism/Imperialism is evil.

reply to post by Germanicus


reply to post by Germanicus


OK, did not ask to condemn, but to know your mindset. True Progressives are a tiny part of the population and many who call themselves that are just old fashioned leaches. You seem serious about your belief.

Have you considered the history of the many attempts at this while forming your ideology?

Which systems lead to progress and prosperity for the most for instance? To date that has never been a Socialist Society.

The reason is simple enough. If we wake in the morning knowing that a Nanny State will take care of your needs, you have no motivation to do anything meaningful.

If we work for the State and cannot be fired, we (Humans) take the path of least resistance. The end result is apathy in the workplace and in our lives.

The reason it will not work any better in the future than it has in the past is we are Human.

The end result will always be a self-described intellectual elite who reserve a lavish lifestyle for themselves, believing they deserve it. They see no problem with letting the illiterate masses live on their handouts, since their narcissistic attitudes won't allow them to see the value in anyone they see as inferior. True Marxists always see everyone else like Cattle to be herded and controlled as they are incapable of making their own decisions.

That always leads to a lapdog class, sometimes called Party Members who serve the Masters directly and get special rewards to insure their loyalty, while the illiterate masses are completely controlled out of fear they might rise up against the elitist Masters.

Each new generation of Progressives, being their very nature is that of a narcissist, thinks the reason it always fails is they personally were not in control. They completely ignore the fact that without Freedom, no matter what risks it presents, The Human Animal with either sink into a state of apathy and depression or rise up and fight back against the oh so kind, handouts from the Progressive Marxist Elite.

I will grant you that a system like you describe can work well in small populations, but it breaks down quickly as the size of the population expands. In a small community the lazy butts and the criminals are easy to deal with, but in a large population they drag the whole concept down. For instance the alcoholism, horrible work habits, horrible quality work when they did bother and apathy that destroyed the old Soviet. Standing in line for hours for a daily needs tears people down. Being free to create and free to excel by working hard build us up. Living like sardines in small spaces deemed good enough by the elite from their ivory towers destroys motivation.

Equality is a false concept and always has been. Part of society will never participate no matter how grandiose the idea's. Those who would excel given a chance will stagnate under a system where there is no reward for going the extra mile. That has always been the downfall of the Marxist ideal.

Common sense dictates you look to history for truth and you will find the system we had in the Western World post WW2 is the most successful to date. Reality is that to go back to that would have the same net result. You have to ignore truth to think that the systems that brought their people down and made them dependent on the State work. They simply do not and history has proven it true over and over again.

I am surprised you realize Hitler was a Progressive, albeit a mad one. Progressives generally deny he shared ideology with Stalin and Mao.

Just working for the State leads a person down the path to corruption and giving the State all power, always ends up the same way.

Originally posted by Germanicus

Originally posted by babybunnies
You're going to march on the Governments of the world but can't sort out the proper use of an apostrophe?

Yes.

Spelling errors couldnt even stop us.

LMFAO

the grammer nazis rallied in full force ...

good grief..

reply to post by Blaine91555

The reason is simple enough. If we wake in the morning knowing that a Nanny State will take care of your needs, you have no motivation to do anything meaningful.

Thats just not true. You should read Soul Of A Man Under Socialism. He talks about how we could truly realize ourselves if we are free of capitalism and its obligations.

Do you think a wealthy person that doesnt need money will never do anything of worth?

Also,we are living in a Nanny State right now you know. A capitalist Nanny/Police State.

Capitalism, fascism, leninism, naziism, democratic republicism, monarchism it's all the same as they all enslave through the wage system.Anything less than the abolition of wage slavery is wage slavery in a different ism.

Its so easy to be a thumbsucker and criticise the system you live under and use.

To the OP - if you want anyone to listen to you about the joys of the Left - get yourself to Cuba or North Korea and come back and tell us its wonderful.

Pertinently, note the transformation of East Germany under the 'yoke' of evil capitalism - www.spiegel.de...

Thats just not true. You should read Soul Of A Man Under Socialism. He talks about how we could truly realize ourselves if we are free of capitalism and its obligations.



Socialism is all books, and theory.

And it never works.

You may as well read Animal Farm.

Originally posted by bulldetector
Its so easy to be a thumbsucker and criticise the system you live under and use.

To the OP - if you want anyone to listen to you about the joys of the Left - get yourself to Cuba or North Korea and come back and tell us its wonderful.

Pertinently, note the transformation of East Germany under the 'yoke' of evil capitalism - www.spiegel.de...

The first time I saw Cuba on a doco I thought how awesome it was that nobody thought they were better than the next guy. Olympic atheletes were living in the same concrete houses as everyone else. I like that everyone is treated the same.
Cuba and North Korea are victims of Imperialism,not socialism. Even the Pope knows that. Evil Capitalist Imperialism is whats wrong with Cuba and North Korea.

Edit- And rebuilding Germany was about getting the Capitalist Imperial tentacles into Europe. Just Imperialism.