To the Christians of ATS

Originally posted by novastrike81

Originally posted by Hydroman
So in short, he creates some people to live with him, and creates most others to burn? Why? To keep heaven warm?

He works in mysterious ways; His ways are not our ways.

You call it mysterious, I call it dysfunctional.

Why do adults have children, then abuse and torture them for years? Same principles apply here.

Wow! And you worship this "god.?"

reply to post by EvilSadamClone


I don't choose Hell because God has already chosen for me. Like you said, if God chose for you, then that negates free will. This lines up with scripture.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
A non-believer chooses hell ebcause if you don't choose to believe then God condemns you to hell for all eternity. There is only one choice in the matter, that is to believe and obey God.

If the disciples, who actually lived with Jesus, saw him perform miracles, signs, and wonders, ran away in disbelief when Jesus was being crucified, how in the world does this god expect us to beleive in him without ever seeing him, hearing him, etc?

Originally posted by novastrike81
I don't choose Hell because God has already chosen for me. Like you said, if God chose for you, then that negates free will. This lines up with scripture.

So you're saying god negates free will by choosing for you?

Originally posted by Hydroman
So you're saying god negates free will by choosing for you?

That would be predestination, which is what scripture indicates numerous times.

Originally posted by novastrike81
That would be predestination, which is what scripture indicates numerous times.

Ok, just wanted to make sure I was on the same page as you. And in that case, screw your god.

Also, if this is the case: "If the disciples, who actually lived with Jesus, saw him perform miracles, signs, and wonders, ran away in disbelief when Jesus was being crucified, how in the world does this god expect us to beleive in him without ever seeing him, hearing him, etc?" screw your god.

reply to post by Hydroman


He gave us all a chance 2,000 years ago during a time of ignorance and superstition. Lets not forget that communication methods were slow, unlike today where we can have a conversation almost instantly across the world.

You think an intelligent inter-dimensional being would realize that technology would be at it's peak 2,000 years after he sent himself down to Earth to spread his "good news".

God fail.

Originally posted by novastrike81
He gave us all a chance 2,000 years ago during a time of ignorance and superstition. Lets not forget that communication methods were slow, unlike today where we can have a conversation almost instantly across the world.

You think an intelligent inter-dimensional being would realize that technology would be at it's peak 2,000 years after he sent himself down to Earth to spread his "good news".

God fail.

Now I'm confused. Are you a believer or not?

reply to post by Hydroman


I'm just pointing out all the glaring errors the apologists use in their arguments; sarcasm included.

Definitely don't believe in a god who inspires a book with so many errors and punishes his kids for not giving him attention. I expect that out of my kids, not the other way around.

Originally posted by cloudyday

Originally posted by HeFrippedMeOff...
I think it is important to remember that "...the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."

Just wondering if you think you "have the mind of Christ". If every Christian "has the mind of Christ" what does that say about "the mind of Christ"?

The point as one may ascertain from the rest of my post is that Christ has made his mind known. If we therefore judge according to the Word of God, it is no longer we who judge but God himself.

Also, the reason homosexuals define themselves as gay or lesbian is the same reason that blacks in America define themselves as black - bigotry.

That isn't a reason. It is an assumptive assertion based on the argument that homosexuals are born that way and is as faulty psychologically, philosophically, logically, ethically, biologically, and all around scientifically as the assumptive argument that male and female is not determined by sex organs but by emotional feeling toward a particular sexual orientation such as in transgendered individuals (not hermaphrodites).

I think it is far more likely that Christ only exists in the mind of Christians.

edit on 8-5-2012 by cloudyday because: fixed quote

Yes well tell that to Jesus disciples and the martyrs throughout history who have given their lives to being burned, crucified, tarred, and fed to starved animals for the sake of a man who, in your world apart from history, not only never existed but also didn't rise from the grave showing himself to his disciples and countless others.

The faith didn't die for a very real reason.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by HeFrippedMeOff
I think it is important to remember that "...the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Let's examine this: According to this verse, how are unbelievers EVER supposed to believe? We can't receive the things of the Spirit of God....

And, since we can't do that, as it is stated in that verse, it is "just" to torture us forever?

edit on 8-5-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you," Jesus promises.

Turn to Christ and believe, my friend. Ask of Jesus.

Originally posted by HeFrippedMeOff
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you," Jesus promises.

Turn to Christ and believe, my friend. Ask of Jesus.

I can't, I don't have the spirit and can't understand that stuff nor spiritually discern it. It's foolishness to me.

p.s. I have done that, lol. Matter of fact, I did just a few days ago.

Originally posted by HeFrippedMeOff
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you," Jesus promises.

Turn to Christ and believe, my friend. Ask of Jesus.

No one is answering, or does this verse only apply to those who believe first?

I went seeking and found the opposite.

reply to post by Hydroman


Your logic is that since God whose name is Jesus Knows all and that he knew man would end up there also then he could have not created only for the fallen angels?

Is like saying I made a pie only for my family to eat yet some one comes over and takes a piece with out my permission.

It is not Jesus who decides your fate of heaven or hell it is you. If you are so proud to live the life of transgression and iniquity and not abhor the things that God hates then it is you that must pay the wages of sin not anyone else.

Originally posted by novastrike81

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38
If we do not repent and turn from our evil ways and chose to live as God has instructed we are choosing Satan and Hell is where we will end up.

How does a non-believer choose Hell? I'm not sending myself there, your God is. He created the rules, so he can choose not to send me to Hell if he wants. That's like a judge ruling a murderer not guilty even when this person chose to kill someone.

Sometimes I wonder if Christians actually understand what they are reading, or if they are just going off what someone else's interpretation is that makes them feel the most secure inside.

If you create some thing do you have the right to judge it?

If you play a game is there not rules to the game so that it is fair to all.

Would you like a rapist or a murder to live in your home that is not truly repentant of what they had done?

As for you last line yes some do as you state and do not follow the commandment to use the scripture for reproof, correction and a standard for your life.

As with many non-believers of the inerrant word of God they do not search out that which they claim to believe and therefore repeat what they have heard. With bias in their heart as they do not wish to discover the truth, "Jesus" as it will put conviction in their heart.

As the Bible states Jesus is the most powerful name in the universe, many are offended just hearing the name as it put conviction in their heart hearing the name.

Originally posted by HeFrippedMeOff

Originally posted by cloudyday

Originally posted by HeFrippedMeOff...
I think it is important to remember that "...the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."

Just wondering if you think you "have the mind of Christ". If every Christian "has the mind of Christ" what does that say about "the mind of Christ"?

The point as one may ascertain from the rest of my post is that Christ has made his mind known. If we therefore judge according to the Word of God, it is no longer we who judge but God himself.
...

That's the problem with taking quotes from the Bible as assumptions and deriving things - you get these kinds of absurd conclusions. If your reasoning was correct, then you've proved Paul was wrong (proof by counter example).

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38
Your logic is that since God whose name is Jesus Knows all and that he knew man would end up there also then he could have not created only for the fallen angels?

Is like saying I made a pie only for my family to eat yet some one comes over and takes a piece with out my permission.

First, you're not ALL-KNOWING. God is, isn't he? So, when he created hell, he DID know what it would be used for. The verse I'm speaking of is where Jesus tells the sinners to depart into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels....as if it wasn't also prepared for humans. The funny thing is, humans are supposedly being tortured there RIGHT NOW, while demons, and satan roam the earth. So, it seems as if hell was created for humans first....?

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38
It is not Jesus who decides your fate of heaven or hell it is you. If you are so proud to live the life of transgression and iniquity and not abhor the things that God hates then it is you that must pay the wages of sin not anyone else.

No, if I don't believe that your god is real for good reasons, I'm not choosing heaven or hell, I simply don't believe those places are real. I could say the same to you using Allah. You are choosing eternal punishment because you don't follow Allah. See how easy that is?

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38
If you create some thing do you have the right to judge it?

Depends on if I'm all-knowing and understand that thing's heart and motives.

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38
If you play a game is there not rules to the game so that it is fair to all.

First, I would show up to everyone involved and explain the rules...

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38
Would you like a rapist or a murder to live in your home that is not truly repentant of what they had done?

No, I would not let a rapist or murderer live in my home, even if he/she was truly repentant. Would you? I imagine there are many prisoners now who are truly repentant and could use a place to stay when they leave the prison. Would you allow them to live with you?

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38
As with many non-believers of the inerrant word of God they do not search out that which they claim to believe and therefore repeat what they have heard. With bias in their heart as they do not wish to discover the truth, "Jesus" as it will put conviction in their heart.

Do you feel that you don't have a bias?

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38
As the Bible states Jesus is the most powerful name in the universe, many are offended just hearing the name as it put conviction in their heart hearing the name.

I'm not offended at all. There are MANY people named Jesus.

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38
If you create some thing do you have the right to judge it?

No, not unless they give me a good reason to.

If you play a game is there not rules to the game so that it is fair to all.

Rules are made to be broken. There is always a way around some of them.

Would you like a rapist or a murder to live in your home that is not truly repentant of what they had done?

Why would a rapist be living in my house? That's a stupid question, stop baiting me with fallacious questions.

As with many non-believers of the inerrant word of God they do not search out that which they claim to believe and therefore repeat what they have heard. With bias in their heart as they do not wish to discover the truth, "Jesus" as it will put conviction in their heart.

The Bible isn't inerrant; there are plenty of contradictions. I've discovered the truth, and it's not in the Bible.

As the Bible states Jesus is the most powerful name in the universe, many are offended just hearing the name as it put conviction in their heart hearing the name.

What verse says Jesus is the most powerful name in the universe?

His name doesn't offend me.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by HeFrippedMeOff
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you," Jesus promises.

Turn to Christ and believe, my friend. Ask of Jesus.

I can't, I don't have the spirit and can't understand that stuff nor spiritually discern it. It's foolishness to me.

p.s. I have done that, lol. Matter of fact, I did just a few days ago.

edit on 8-5-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)

"If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways."

Ask in faith brother, and believe. Do not doubt.