To the Christians of ATS

reply to post by daaskapital

Regardless if it is a negative judgement or not, the Bible clearly states not to judge another person.

That's not exactly true. We could never use discernment if we didn't see if someone's actions or behavior aligned with the scripture or not. We are not to judge a person's outward appearance, but to make righteous judgments. Judge their heart. And when we judge it's to exhort to holiness, to lift them up and exhort them to return to Christ, never to condemn because we're also sinners who may not struggle with their sins, but sins of our own.

The problem comes in that most people who are highly judgmental of others often believe they are above being judged themselves. They also always believe that you should immediately stop whatever it is you're doing and bow down to them, and that they and only they can be right.

Plus, the judgments are often lies, because the person doing the judging is ignorant of the other person, and don't know anything about the other person.

One of the commandments also says "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor".

And those are the biggest problems with judging a person.

A person really shouldn't be judged if you don't know them.

A person really shouldn't be judged by the group their with.

reply to post by EvilSadamClone

The problem comes in that most people who are highly judgmental of others often believe they are above being judged themselves. They also always believe that you should immediately stop whatever it is you're doing and bow down to them, and that they and only they can be right.

Well, those are religious people. Paul even says people running around trying to keep ordinances are "weaker in the faith" then the brother or sister who realizes their freedom in Christ. The "list keepers" are the judgmental ones, they look down their nose at anyone who doesn't keep the same rules they do.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Actually, no, not just religious people, but just about anybody with strong beliefs, such as but certainly not limited to, liberals.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Actually, no, not just religious people, but just about anybody with strong beliefs, such as but certainly not limited to, liberals.

That's true, but I was just considering the context of the OP, Christianity. You're correct if you want to take the scope out further.

reply to post by daaskapital


I think it is important to remember that "...the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."


We can read that sexual sins war against the spirit in us, and scientifically we know what happens when one man's sperm is received into another man. There is a recompense of reward for such an action and not so according to our own words but according to the words written in scripture.

What we have here, in regards to homosexuality, is a sin that not only wars against the Holy Spirit but it is also anathema to the biologically procreative familial system. This sin is unhealthy mentally, physically, and spiritually. This is Christ's judgment.

Also it is important to note that judgment necessitates condemnation. Standing up against homosexuality for the discerned aforementioned reasons according to the mind of Christ which we read of in scripture does not mean that we are condemning homosexuals, just the actions. However, many homosexuals feel that they are, as people being attacked therefor we discern that homosexuals are defining themselves and their persons on sex. I once asked in a homosexual thread something to the effect of, "Why would one define one's self, one's very existence and meaning, according to something so fleeting and vain and unsound as sexuality?" The one reply said, "I think God made me this way and I feel like everyone else is just missing out," which did not address my inquiry sufficiently.

In reality, I find that in consequences we incur for our own actions we condemning ourselves and in accordance with the consequences wet forth by the Holy Spirit in scripture, homosexuals condemn themselves to a life removed from the Spirit we receive in Christ, as well as condemning themselves to the recompense of homosexuality in regards to the very quality of this their physical life.


I will not say homosexuals are going to hell nor do I concede that "gays are born that way." I do believe that "self-actualization" dictates that the apex of person-hood is accomplished in the overcoming of an emotionally defined life by the spirit of self-control unto healthy and well-lived life wherein is power and personal authority and too a sense of spiritual autonomy from the materialism of this world.

One last thing. I sense a deep danger in homosexuality. When we lie the lie is done. When we cheat it happen in a moment. When we act in anger it happens in a moment. But when we start to live and define ourselves by such things we begin to turn away from the Spirit of God and, if i understand correctly, the gay have become proud, unrepentant, and believe that they may even be born as such convincing themselves that from the moment to moment, waking to waking they are gay. "I am Gay and I am Proud."

For the danger, a previous poster noted that there is only one unforgivable sin (blasphemy against the Holy Spirit). Scripture dictates that sexual sins war with the Spirit of God in us (as do all sins) but sexual sins are different in the way it is harbored in the heart and carried in the thoughts and flesh constantly. When we define ourselves and existence by sin (as God has judged) we effectively shun His Holy Spirit from living in and working through us. My fear for you who define your lives and existences on sex and pleasure that you are denying the very spirit that not only will complete that huge void in your heart but also the spirit that has saved our souls.

This is not a rant against homosexuality, but is only my own personal discernment mixed in with a Psychology/Child and Family Development background from college.

"Do not blame me if by Christ's words you stand judged."

I do not hate you if you define your beingness by sexuality. I do not wish or condemn you to hell for doing so either but what must be understand is that the things of satan will be thrown into the lake of fire along with satan. If you define yourself by sin, live unrepentantly in sin thus serving sin then you belong to sin. This is not my judgment but judgment and condemnation we all place upon ourselves for rebelling against our Father.

Originally posted by HeFrippedMeOff...
I think it is important to remember that "...the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."

Just wondering if you think you "have the mind of Christ". If every Christian "has the mind of Christ" what does that say about "the mind of Christ"?

Also, the reason homosexuals define themselves as gay or lesbian is the same reason that blacks in America define themselves as black - bigotry.

I think it is far more likely that Christ only exists in the mind of Christians.

Originally posted by HeFrippedMeOff
I think it is important to remember that "...the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Let's examine this: According to this verse, how are unbelievers EVER supposed to believe? We can't receive the things of the Spirit of God.... And, since we can't do that, as it is stated in that verse, it is "just" to torture us forever?

reply to post by Hydroman


You become a believer if God chooses you to believe. Remember, He knew you before you were born, so he knows how your life is going to play out before you're even born.

Originally posted by novastrike81
reply to post by Hydroman

 

You become a believer if God chooses you to believe. Remember, He knew you before you were born, so he knows how your life is going to play out before you're even born.

Care to elaborate? Is God a kangaroo presiding over his kangaroo court of judgement?

Originally posted by novastrike81
You become a believer if God chooses you to believe. Remember, He knew you before you were born, so he knows how your life is going to play out before you're even born.

Damn. I feel sorry for everybody he doesn't choose.

Originally posted by cloudyday

Care to elaborate? Is God a kangaroo presiding over his kangaroo court of judgement?

Uh, yeah.

Rom 8:29-30
For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Ephesians 1:4-6
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Romans 9:14-21
What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Yes, God does preside over his kangaroo court of judgement. Just accept the fact that you don't have free will. God willed it, so it happened that way. If you're chosen, consider yourself the lucky one.

Originally posted by novastrike81
Yes, God does preside over his kangaroo court of judgement. Just accept the fact that you don't have free will. God willed it, so it happened that way. If you're chosen, consider yourself the lucky one.

edit on 8-5-2012 by novastrike81 because: (no reason given)

So in short, he creates some people to live with him, and creates most others to burn? Why? To keep heaven warm?

Originally posted by Hydroman
So in short, he creates some people to live with him, and creates most others to burn? Why? To keep heaven warm?

He works in mysterious ways; His ways are not our ways.

Why do adults have children, then abuse and torture them for years? Same principles apply here.

Originally posted by novastrike81
He works in mysterious ways; His ways are not our ways.

Why do adults have children, then abuse and torture them for years? Same principles apply here.

Because they don't love them unconditionally. I would NEVER do that to my kids, or my neighbors kids, or your kids. Next, I assume you say your god is on the same level as humans? Or are humans on the same level as god?

Are you just fine with god torturing people forever because you just happen to be one of the lucky ones?

I just realized that I am morally superior to your god...

reply to post by daaskapital


We are to hate the sin and not the sinner. We are to win them to Jesus.

We are to tell them whom ever and what ever they do is a transgression against God and will effect their walk with Jesus and their place in the Lambs Book of Life.

ROMANS 1:
[21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
[22] Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
[23] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
[24] Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
[25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
[26] For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
[27] And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
[28] And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
[29] Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
[30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
[31] Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
[32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

All these things Jesus hates and as a believer we must hate this also.

2Tim.3
[1] This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
[2] For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
[3] Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, [4] Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
[5] Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
[6] For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
[7] Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
[8] Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
[9] But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
[10] But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
[11] Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
[12] Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
[13] But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
[14] But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.



[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

As I stated before we are to hate the sin and not the sinner yet we must not stand by and allow sin to reign around us with out speaking out against it.

What you believe in many (not all ) is that when they speak against it they are bashing the person and many do.
But a true believer knows that Hell was not made for men but for the fallen angels.

If we do not repent and turn from our evil ways and chose to live as God has instructed we are choosing Satan and Hell is where we will end up.

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38
But a true believer knows that Hell was not made for men but for the fallen angels.

If we do not repent and turn from our evil ways and chose to live as God has instructed we are choosing Satan and Hell is where we will end up.

Do you believe that your god is omniscient? This means that he knows everything, past, present, and future...

If you do believe that, then how in the hell, pun intended, did he create a place and not know EXACTLY what it would be used for from the very beginning? Did he not know that humans would be tortured there right alongside the devil and fallen angels? Is this his line of thinking, "Ok, so I'm going to make this place of torment for the devil and his fallen angels, but I'm not going to put humans there..." then years later, "You know what, I'm going to go ahead and put humans there too." If that is the case, he isn't omniscient so why call him "god"?

For some reason it really gets under my skin when christians try to act as if their god didn't create hell for humans too....

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38
If we do not repent and turn from our evil ways and chose to live as God has instructed we are choosing Satan and Hell is where we will end up.

How does a non-believer choose Hell? I'm not sending myself there, your God is. He created the rules, so he can choose not to send me to Hell if he wants. That's like a judge ruling a murderer not guilty even when this person chose to kill someone.

Sometimes I wonder if Christians actually understand what they are reading, or if they are just going off what someone else's interpretation is that makes them feel the most secure inside.

reply to post by novastrike81


If God chooses you to believe then that defeats free will.

reply to post by novastrike81


A non-believer chooses hell ebcause if you don't choose to believe then God condemns you to hell for all eternity. There is only one choice in the matter, that is to believe and obey God.