Explain to me how Homosexuals aren't "born that way".

Originally posted by smyleegrl
You know, the main group of folks who are so adamant that homosexuality is wrong are the same folks who encourage us to love one another.

I've read the Bible, and I seem to recall an interesting fact about Jesus....he NEVER consorted with the religious folk. Instead, he was always with the outcast, the downtrodden, the "sinners," if you will.

Following that precedent, I wonder whom Jesus would associate with today. Those who spread hate in the name of religion, or those who are victims of religious hate.

I know my answer......

edit on 30-4-2012 by smyleegrl because: (no reason given)

Yes they do tell us to love one another... but listen to this:

"Leviticus 18:22:

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

Well... what part didnt you understand?

I'll explain as if you were a 6 year old:

Saying "love one another" doesnt mean I have to stick my you-know-what into another man's butt to show my love. I love my friends, altho I keep my "you-know-what" out of their butts, and they do the same... weird huh? But it works. Trust me.

reply to post by Outofcontrol


Fair enough. I think it's an abomination that all these so-called christians don't follow the rest of the laws in that book.

I dare them to. Hypocrites.

Originally posted by Outofcontrol


Saying "love one another" doesnt mean I have to stick my you-know-what into another man's butt to show my love. I love my friends, altho I keep my "you-know-what" out of their butts, and they do the same... weird huh? But it works. Trust me.

well your friends are no fun. I'd get new friends if I were you.

Originally posted by Garfee
reply to post by sting130u

 

I had a great childhood. I was born and raised in the far north of New Zealand where the climate and lifestyle is quite nice, to put it plainly.

My parents are still together and while there were rough patches, there always are. They love me and I love them and to the best of my knowlege I was not sexually molested and the pnly physical 'abuse' I experienced was a scary old wooden spoon which my sister and I promptly stole, snapped and threw under the house when we knew we could get away with it.

My upbringing was so wholesome it bordered the ridiculous - yet I was never sheltered.

I didn't learn to be homosexual and i certainly am not so stupid to choose the more difficult option. I'm quite convinced I was pre-programmed to to be attracted to males.

Of course, this must be the devil talking and I am am obviously lying to cover up media influence and sexual abuse and I am offending the bible oh won't somebody think of the children etc

Sounds to me that maybe you were raised by parents who had alot of tolerance, patience, and understanding. G4U. As I too grew up with parents such as yours, besides the wooden spoon part, and a sister, and my parents are still together as well, yet I am straight.

And to me, there are still a female and a male even in a gay relationship. One is dominant the other submissive, one top one bottom, however you want to put it.

Originally posted by Garfee
reply to post by Outofcontrol

 

Fair enough. I think it's an abomination that all these so-called christians don't follow the rest of the laws in that book.

I dare them to. Hypocrites.

So attacking christians is a good way to get a message across? Great way to build bridges....

As I am a christian, I apologize for those in sheeps clothing. I do not condone, nor do I condemn, homosexuality. As started before I do have homosexual friends, male and female. But as a christian I know such acts are sinful, as we were ALL born into sin. One mans sin may not be anothers, but everyone is still a sinner. I still lust and commit sins, but I do not put myself upon a pedestal and try to say I am better. I am saved.

And (to others) bash me for being christian, that will be a good way for you to waste your time tonight.

reply to post by sting130u


Not really. Most I am aware of share both roles.

Originally posted by sting130u

Originally posted by Garfee
reply to post by Outofcontrol

 

Fair enough. I think it's an abomination that all these so-called christians don't follow the rest of the laws in that book.

I dare them to. Hypocrites.

So attacking christians is a good way to get a message across? Great way to build bridges....

As I am a christian, I apologize for those in sheeps clothing. I do not condone, nor do I condemn, homosexuality. As started before I do have homosexual friends, male and female. But as a christian I know such acts are sinful, as we were ALL born into sin. One mans sin may not be anothers, but everyone is still a sinner. I still lust and commit sins, but I do not put myself upon a pedestal and try to say I am better. I am saved.

And (to others) bash me for being christian, that will be a good way for you to waste your time tonight.

All I'm saying is if you're going to be a christian, be a christian and come at me like the bible says you should.

See how far you get.

Edit: I don't mean you personally, unless you feel you should. I mean in general, those who hate homosexuality because they are christian and their book says it's an abomination, should follow all the laws of their faith or none at all.

Originally posted by Outofcontrol

Originally posted by smyleegrl
You know, the main group of folks who are so adamant that homosexuality is wrong are the same folks who encourage us to love one another.
I've read the Bible, and I seem to recall an interesting fact about Jesus....he NEVER consorted with the religious folk. Instead, he was always with the outcast, the downtrodden, the "sinners," if you will.
Following that precedent, I wonder whom Jesus would associate with today. Those who spread hate in the name of religion, or those who are victims of religious hate.
I know my answer......

edit on 30-4-2012 by smyleegrl because: (no reason given)

Yes they do tell us to love one another... but listen to this:
"Leviticus 18:22:
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."
Well... what part didnt you understand?
I'll explain as if you were a 6 year old:
Saying "love one another" doesnt mean I have to stick my you-know-what into another man's butt to show my love. I love my friends, altho I keep my "you-know-what" out of their butts, and they do the same... weird huh? But it works. Trust me.

Yea I understand that you're expressing your FEAR - just like was expressed in that OT passage. Same sort of fear as "tho shalt not suffer a witch to live"... it leads to harm of other human beings, especially taken out of the context of the time in which it was written and the culture from which it was derived.

And if you watch dogs - the mounting thing is as much a process of domination as it is sexual. The same happens in our prisons and even our military.

I've read the bible cover-to-cover and consider myself "Christian". I also find the mainstream attitudes at churches to be more about creating us vs them mentalities than about sharing "God's love". I didn't read the book till I was over 35 (1999) and it doesn't change the eunics - or how people are wired. It does admonish a "sex questing" lifestyle. But NOT through legislation of morality. Not since Jesus's time when the money changers had taken over the temple. They're still there too - false teaching at every opportunity. Want the truth? Read it cover to cover and THINK for yourself!

It's biological and psychological nonsense that people are "born that way"

I hve a very good friend who left that lifestyle is married has children and explains the 'life' he had in simple terms. He was unhappy and found solace in a homosexual who turned him and then he felt trapped.

See, I don't have to explain from my point of view because I have anothers point of view...one who was in and now is out and if one can do it who was hetro then homo then hetro, all are the same.

Running the mile in under 4 minutes couldn't be done until it was. After that everyone knew it could be done. Same with this. If one can prove it, all others who haven;t are just fooling themselves to feel better about a lifestyle they can't defend any other way than by saying "I can't help it".... that's the excuse murderers sometimes use.

reply to post by pacifier2012


Then your 'friend' wasn't homosexual. Perhaps bisexual or gullible and easily persuaded.

Hmm.. I would've liked a U2U to be notified of this.. rebuttal.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
going from the stars the OP has, many people seem to agree with this users "opinion", or ignorance if you are like me.

That doesn't really make any sense. I only posed a question, I never made any implications or stated clearly what my own opinion was.

Explain to me how a homosexual isn't born that way? Better yet, explain to me how I was born straight and not gay. Explain how you are straight and not gay. Are you honestly trying to tell me the only thing keeping you from slapping on some leather and hitting the "hammer and anvil" is god's teaching?

My upbringing, family, surroundings, had no impact on what my genitals decided. I've asked plenty of people this, gay and straight, not one of them remembers "deciding" to be gay or not. Maybe it is a genetic thing, who knows, but I'm sure you aren't insinuating it's a disease are you? Because if so, well played, that's some of the most well thought out and disguised bigotry I've seen at ATS so far.

From what I've gathered in that last thread (yes, I was actually reading it!), there are a lot of people who agree that one isn't born with any sexual orientation, otherwise children (referring to those who do not hit puberty), would be sexually active. Obviously this isn't the case. I know from personal experience, that it wasn't until puberty I started looking at females a certain way. I didn't actively decide this natural attraction, but I DID act upon it. It wasn't that I was born straight, either. I can say, safely, that my surroundings were what contributed to my heterosexuality. I grew up in a world where boys kissed girls, and girls got cooties from them, a simple time, really.

And for the love of everything that is set apart from this world, I never, EVER said it was a disease. People constantly harassed and trolled my thread, assuming I was making some implications which I NEVER said. Deny ignorance. That's our motto. Stick with it.

You know, don't even ponder those first few questions, instead ponder this..

Why do you care? How does it affect you? It doesn't, at all. Yet, you feel the need to interject yourself into it, bring it up (like there aren't already enough gay bashing threads here). I really can't grasp it.

I answered this too. I care about KNOWLEDGE, I care about where the ATTRACTION stemmed from. And once again, I can't stress how you it's NOT a gay bashing thread. I testified OPENLY that I have utmost love for homosexuals - one user even applauded how I presented the thread, despite my Christian background. Believe it or not, I conducted it as closely I believe that Jesus would have - not based out of opinion, but BIBLICALLY speaking. (Read - Bible, Book of John - the Adulterer, and how Jesus was UNWILLING to condemn her)

On the one hand, the religious side of ATS begs and pleads for tolerance because we are constantly harassing you, yet you feel the need to infect threads with your hatred when not needed, and create inflammatory threads like the one this rant is in response to.

Again, I can tell how much you were focusing on the ASSUMPTION that I was harassing ANYONE. If I offended anyone, I apologize, and I won't say I'm not a hypocrite, because everyone is at some point, but I sincerely tried my hardest to be unbiased.

I'm starting to think that maybe, just maybe, some of you guys have taken a few pages from the zionist handbook and are actively doing this to smear yourselves, to evoke the response you will surely get, so you can point out the users and whine about it. That has to be it, because that's the only angle I can make sense.

Or, you know, I was curious.

I'm not gay, not in the least, couldn't be even if I wanted to try, my junk simply doesn't work that way, I require the opposite toolset for me to become interested. It took awhile before I could even enjoy porn if a male was present.

Sure you could, I could if I wanted to, and I have a beautiful girl friend and never have had a homosexual before. But to say you couldn't even if you tried implies you don't have free will, which you do.

But I really don't give a crap how or why other people do what they do, I believe we are all humans and equal, and I refuse to allow bigots to spread hate, and that's what the OP of that thread, and every peabrain who starred him, is doing, spreading hate.

Wonderful. I believe the exact same you do, yet you are obviously letting your ego get the better of you because you're determined to make a point on a case which isn't there to begin with.

Originally posted by smyleegrl
You know, the main group of folks who are so adamant that homosexuality is wrong are the same folks who encourage us to love one another.

I've read the Bible, and I seem to recall an interesting fact about Jesus....he NEVER consorted with the religious folk. Instead, he was always with the outcast, the downtrodden, the "sinners," if you will.

Following that precedent, I wonder whom Jesus would associate with today. Those who spread hate in the name of religion, or those who are victims of religious hate.

I know my answer......

This is exactly the same thing I tell my fellow Christians who are into the Old Testament as if we were still under the law. Jesus had love for EVERYONE, and he died for the sins of EVERYONE, whether you believe in him or not, your sins are paid for (except the unforgivable, not believing in Christ and that he was God, and that he died for your sins).

I always bring up, as I did in my last post, the story of the Adulterer. I'll recount it here - John 8:3-11

2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

11 “No one, sir,” she said.

“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

There you have it. The GOD of the Universe, the Son of the most High, the ONLY one WORTHY to condemn here - refused to. She could have been an adulterer, a thief, a liar, a homosexual (it could HAVE been a woman she slept with), and yet - Jesus said "Then neither do I condemn you."

Beautiful. That's the life I want choose to live, because I know that *I* am UNWORTHY. I am a Sinner, just like everyone else. I have been made holy through the blood of Christ, but I am in no way perfect. Left to my sins, I am as guilty as Hitler.

So no, I don't condemn homosexuals. I ponder the behavior, I am curious of the attraction, I question everything. Stop acting like I have a stone in my hand ready to kill them all.

reply to post by ronishia


I really appreciate your post, referring to scriptures. It's true what you say. I, by no means, support any Christian who is out to condemn another, they are what I call.. misinformed. I believe, FULLY, that a Homosexual can enter Heaven, if he - Believes that Jesus, the ONLY begotten Son of God, and IS God, came into the flesh, died for the sins of the world, and are forgiven through his Grace. That only through Him, can they get to Heaven - and if they attempt to control their Sins. By no means can anyone completely stop, and as the Bible says "work out the old in you", that is all it takes. Believing. Of course, someone who mistakes GRACE for PERMISSION is trailing down a dangerous road - no different than a thief who believes in Christ and continues to steal with no effort to stop. Did they truly believe? Only God knows, and ONLY God can judge.

Originally posted by Garfee
reply to post by pacifier2012

 

Then your 'friend' wasn't homosexual. Perhaps bisexual or gullible and easily persuaded.

Uhh, I don't know how you define Homosexual, but by definition he was a Homosexual.

I mean, do you even realize what you're saying? That's like saying, someone who kills themselves and their family comes out and says, "No, he wasn't suicidal, he was just gullible or easily persuaded."

Sorry, but by definition, he would be suicidal, just as this man was. Don't try and discredit it.. you're more intelligent than that, I hope.

I just can't understand why it is so upsetting to people that there are other people that are attracted to others of the same sex as themselves.... I have lived under the same roof with both males and females that were involved in same sex relationships and it was of no concern to me....I'm pretty sure that if I had been born as a female I would be a full blown diesel dyke with tattoos, a mullet and a 4 wheel drive Dodge Ram Truck like one of my 2 female neighbors down the road.... I have known a couple of gals of that sexual persuasion that were getting a lot more female attention than I was and my friends called my little 2 bedroom house "The Love Palace" I have read that homosexual males are more sexually active than straight males and females due to the influence of testosterone.... It seems to me that lesbians must have more testosterone production than a lot of straight males.... I have been involved with straight women that were on hormone therapy where they would be given estrogen for a number of days followed by testosterone as a means of correcting irregular menstrual cycles.. When they were getting the testosterone It was non stop sexual activity for 8 or 10 hours straight... I miss having that going on but I am old now and it would probably be bad for me.

Originally posted by Lionhearte

Originally posted by Garfee
reply to post by pacifier2012

 

Then your 'friend' wasn't homosexual. Perhaps bisexual or gullible and easily persuaded.

Uhh, I don't know how you define Homosexual, but by definition he was a Homosexual.

I mean, do you even realize what you're saying? That's like saying, someone who kills themselves and their family comes out and says, "No, he wasn't suicidal, he was just gullible or easily persuaded."

Sorry, but by definition, he would be suicidal, just as this man was. Don't try and discredit it.. you're more intelligent than that, I hope.

No, by definition he was bisexual. But that doesn't even mean he was actually bisexual - he may have been heterosexual and easily persuaded and just experimenting or he may have been homosexual and trying to please his peers.

I really don't know why you are arguing with me when I know far more about it than you.

I don't mean that to appear as rude as it sounds but you are likely more of an expert on jesus than I am and I am more of an expert on this.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


It really doesn't matter whether you are gay or straight, we are all equal.

And I learnt that as a youngster, and its always stuck with me.

We think too much these days, and feel far too little.

More than cleverness, we need kindness and gentleness.

Without these qualities life will be violent and all will be lost.

For god sake when will humanity learn to put our differences behind us, we have the power of love in all of our hearts and we choose to throw it away, fight illegal wars and promote bigotry and racism.

Once we begin to understand and work with our similarities the world will become a place of unity and peace.

Peace
K

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters

My upbringing, family, surroundings, had no impact on what my genitals decided. I've asked plenty of people this, gay and straight, not one of them remembers "deciding" to be gay or not. Maybe it is a genetic thing, who knows, but I'm sure you aren't insinuating it's a disease are you? Because if so, well played, that's some of the most well thought out and disguised bigotry I've seen at ATS so far.

I guess i can be the exception that proves the rule. I do remember making the decision to be straight. At age 12 I was very ambiguous about whether I liked femmy boys or girls (very masculine boys never interested me even on a social level), but decided eventually in favor of the girls (I genuinely feel the female form is more attractive to me). Actually I'm one of those weird people who is turned on by ambiguous genitalia. Yes, and I'm from a generation that considers that 'weird'.

I think most people are born much further to one side of the fence or the other than I was. I didn't get a lot of positive male bonding, so that was also a factor. I know it was. I used to fantasize about being a girl. Why? My only role model was my mother. Not too mysterious. She, however, was quite the tomboy/manly woman. So I ended up pretty balanced as to yin/yang.

I have wandered into TMI-land, but I'll leave it, just for illustration that there are factors that influence, and they can't be simplified. They are too subtle.

For the record, I enjoy my GLBT friends' special angle on cultural values. I just wish they would abandon the whole marriage thing. Marriage is a doomed ship, why try so hard to board it now?

One last before i go, I do think the increase in "lesbianism" in the last 10 years or so is in part due to the woeful value systems that many/most men have nowadays. Since the girls don't want to date a douchebag (read: "alpha male") after the third or fourth heartbreak, they end up dating someone who is pretty, smells nice, cares about her appearance, and shares a lot of the same interests. I think they ought to turn to the friendzoned guys first, but meh, not my decision to make. True butch dykes are a rarity among the "new lesbians" as i call them, when it seems they ought to be closer to 50/50. Just my opinion based on very limited observation.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


Guys are "born" to bed every woman we meet, married or not. Although we are "born to it" it doesn't make it right. It is still a S-I-N (fornication and adultery).

Sodomy is no different. It is a SIN. It does not matter what we say we are "born to do."

Funny thing about the truth....you can obfuscate it and rationalize all you want, but the truth is still the truth, and sin is still sin.

Originally posted by sting130u

Originally posted by Garfee
reply to post by Outofcontrol

 

Fair enough. I think it's an abomination that all these so-called christians don't follow the rest of the laws in that book.

I dare them to. Hypocrites.

So attacking christians is a good way to get a message across? Great way to build bridges....

First of all, I'm not part of the group that used to burn people that did things different to them so I'd say it's not me who should be attempting to build bridges.

Second, I have read over my post and cannot find where I attacked christians - did you mean another post? If so, please read the comment above this one again.