If the creator is perfect, there are no mistakes. No wrongs. No bad.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

You say that nothing should be viewed as bad but should be seen as good, however good is still a judgment.
The mind can only work in duality and the mind speaks and has judgement on everything. Everything the mind says is seen/heard by a quiet presence that has no judgement. Can you find the stillness that contains the mind?
youtu.be...
The mind will chat on and have many judgements, however it can never disturb the stillness that it appears within.
One day you will stop judging your thoughts as good or bad, instead you will just hear laughter.

edit on 17-4-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

You're right. I'm starting to get it. I've been a little off the past week or two and I've probably been posting some false information. I just want to have a good time, so I chase goodness. But if I "chase" my innermost self, am I not also chasing something that is good?

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

I'm saying god is a figment of the imagination. Clear enough for you?

IRM

No, the universe isn't a figment of the imagination. Understand?

You and I aren't talking about the same thing when we say, "God".

reply to post by smithjustinb


There is no 'inner' self, there is 'this'. 'This' is appearing without any thought or intention, 'this' is appearing and it is seen. The seer and seen are one.
You do not need to chase anything. To chase is to believe you are not there yet. You are complete until you search.

Go beyond feeling good or bad:
youtu.be...

Same can be said of determinism.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
If you truly believe God is imaginary, then you must live as a sociopath. And don't try and say it is "morality" or that it is "right" because those are religious doctrines, they make no sense in a physical world.

I disagree. Maybe they follow morality because they are scared of getting thrown in jail. Or maybe they follow reality because it is just something that they learned to value. Certain animals have morality / values and yet they do not have the complex brain to understand a "God" as we do. Some even sacrifice themselves to save the other animals...


Morality makes sense ESPECIALLY in a physical world. You have stuff and others have stuff. Unless you want to live in fear of your stuff being taken away, you better come to some mutual agreement about not stealing from each other.

By the way, I am not even an atheist. I just understand their reasoning about morality.

reply to post by smithjustinb


Semantics....

IRM

Originally posted by getreadyalready

Did you participate in my [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread769135/pg1]Religious Troll Thread?

Start off with an ad-hom. Pure sign of a weak argument to come...

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Everyone is welcome to their opinion, but I happen to know for a fact our creator is real.

Yep.. as expected! Weak!

You know nothing for fact. The only fact is that you just told a blatant lie. Gut feelings do not constitute facts. I cannot hold an intelligent conversation with someone's imagination. You deal only in unfalsifiables.

End of conversation!

IRM

reply to post by arpgme

By the way, I am not even an atheist. I just understand their reasoning about morality.

I don't think you do. If there is nothing before or after this physical existence, then the most precious commodity we have is time. We have natural instincts and urges that are repressed for spiritual reasons, which is fine if the goal is a spiritual evolvement, but if one is simply a physical being, the repressing those natural instincts has no logic. Sure, we have to comply with the laws enough to stay out of jail, because jail is a further waste of our time and resources.

There is no morality in the animal kingdom. We may misinterpret their actions as morality, but in the animal world rape is the norm, they eat their young, they prey specifically on the young of other species, they eat things while they are still alive, etc., etc. There is no morality, there is only survival of the fittest and consumption and protection of resources.

Religion is so indoctrinated into our lives that people think they know the difference between right and wrong without any spirituality, but without spirituality there is no such thing as right and wrong. If this is purely a physical existence, nothing is inherently wrong. You can kill your own mother if she no longer serves a purpose, and you have something to gain by it, and you can get away with it, then without spirituality, it isn't "wrong."

There is a creator, but it is not the personified creator taught in religions, and it isn't a creator with a beginning and an end like humans like to imagine. Anything that is omnipotent and omnipresent cannot be described or comprehended in human terms. Our own limitations make it impossible to even imagine the creator. You can't teach an ant calculus. A two-dimensional character on a sheet of paper could only see you or I as we intersect their plane. One of our fingers is a circle in their world, so how could they possibly understand that circle represents such a complex being as us? They can't. It is beyond comprehension, and that is only 1 plane of seperation. Our creator may be 9 or 10 dimensions beyond our own.

There cannot be civility without spirituality. There might be an illusion of civility, but it isn't real, it is self-serving. There cannot be a human comprehension of the creator, and any attempt to define the creator would only limit it to human terms and therefore be immediately inaccurate.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by Ophiuchus 13

 

To add 1 feels there is only 1 judge, so none can really have judgment over others but the LORD.

Please? Which person on Earth is your Lord? I hear many references to such a person, but no Christian can point me to the person in question.
In case you did not click on the hyperlinks, here is the definition of the word "Lord".
noun
1. a person who has authority, control, or power over others; a master, chief, or ruler.
2. a person who exercises authority from property rights; an owner of land, houses, etc.
3. a person who is a leader or has great influence in a chosen profession: the great lords of banking.
4. a feudal superior; the proprietor of a manor.
5. a titled nobleman or peer; a person whose ordinary appellation contains by courtesy the title Lord or some higher title.
dictionary.reference.com...
You will notice ever definition says a Lord is a Person, save 4, and I would say that a "proprietor" is a person also, wouldn't you?
Why do you place a human being above the Creators, may I ask?

Lord shared in your comment data is based off of modern definitions.... No? 1 has not placed any above the Creator, please dont word play..

NAMASTE*******

reply to post by InfaRedMan


How is a question an ad hom? I have a thread titled "A Religious Troll Thread," and your opinion would have been more than welcome there, and more appropriate there than here. You made a false assumption and then made an erroneous response, yet you criticize me?

As to your second response, I am not asking for a debate on what I know to be a fact. I'd be happy to debate the civility vs. spirituality, but as you say, and as I said previously, there is no point in debating my personal experience. It would be worthless to try. I have spoken with the creator, but you won't take my word for it, so there is no reason to take our conversation in that direction.

Instead of debating what I know to be a fact, but what you call imagination, let's debate what motivates you to live in the manner you have chosen. You seem to believe it is not based from a religious doctrine, but I say that is impossible. Unless you are an expert sociopath, the only way to exist logically within the confines of our civilization is to buy into some religious doctrine. Personally, I may be both. I may be an expert sociopath, but also one who has experienced something profound and willfully decided to live a spiritual existence.

So, which is it? Are you an expert sociopath hiding amongst our civilized peers, or are you ignorant of your own religious indoctrination? There is no in-between.

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

Semantics....

IRM

No. More than that. It is definitions. You probably believe that when people say "God", they are referring to the Christian interpretation of God as a patriarchal man in the sky. But that is far from the way I define God. I define God as the all within the all of unity that led to the manifestation of what is in this moment in time. Essentially, I am saying God, as the creator, is the just the universe's past. The present is the culmination of creator and creation, and the future is the infinite range of possibilities that creation is unfolding into. The creation and the creator are one. So if you believe in the universe, you also believe in God (as I define it).

Things can be immoral but nothing is evil as everything immoral has a corresponding virtue which can purify it. Immorality is overcome with a strong will and self realization.

reply to post by smithjustinb

Satan didn't give us knowledge, he created our ability to differentiate what is good and what is bad.

No body "gave" me any knowledge, that I was compelled to seek out, and absorbed by and for myself. As for being able to decide what is good, and what is evil, that comes from Morals taught by parents, Elders, Teachers, and peers. At a very early age I know for a fact that to kill a person was wrong, and to steal from another was wrong. Satan didn't have anything to do with, because he only exists in the minds of Christians.

Originally posted by smithjustinb
Judgement is the enemy of all that is. All that is is and can't be any other way. Judgement is your capacity to disagree with what is. If you don't like what is, really you don't like yourself.

I am very sorry you feel, and think that way, smithjustinb. I am well aware that I am my Judge for me, no God Judges anyone, that is a myth to keep you in line.
Judgement
(Bold Text Mine For Emphasis)

noun
1. an act or instance of judging.

2. the ability to judge, make a decision, or form an opinion objectively, authoritatively, and wisely, especially in matters affecting action; good sense; discretion: a man of sound judgement.

3. the demonstration or exercise of such ability or capacity: The major was decorated for the judgement he showed under fire.

4. the forming of an opinion, estimate, notion, or conclusion, as from circumstances presented to the mind: Our judgement as to the cause of his failure must rest on the evidence.

5. the opinion formed: He regretted his] hasty judgement.

(Dictionary.com)

Judgement can also relate to a Legal Decision, as in an opinion, or legal opinion, or a legal decision made by a judge.

The Concept of Judgement Day, as in the Christian Tradition, comes from Zoroastrianism.

Zoroastrianism, in spite of its small current number of adherents, has played a huge role in the study of comparative religion. Not only was it a cohort of the ancient Vedic Hinduism, but also had a huge influence on the development of Judaism and Christianity.

Source

The Origins of Zoroastrianism
From the website:

Zoroastrianism, a unique religion which stresses the eternal battle of good versus evil, has had a larger impact than its small number of followers (100,000) would suggest. It is the religion of one man who lived some 600 years before the birth of Christ. His name was Zoroaster. The religiously fertile area of Babylonia (modern Iraq and Iran) was his home.

source

The Influence of Zoroastrianism on Christianity and Islam

There is no way that it's a pure coincidence that the Hebrews, or Persians could have had the same type of Judgement Day concept; without there being some cultural and ethnic connection. So in other words, the whole Judgement Day belief is an adopted concept, regardless of it's origin.

In truth, Humanity is their own Judge, and in even higher truth, who could be a harsher judge, after all? To sit and be SCARED of some Godly Judge just waiting to screw you over for looking at that hot babe behind your wife's back, or for not telling that cashier she cheated herself, or for seeing than man drop that cash that you picked up, and spent without a second thought......that is a good way to worry yourself to death, and provide you with a nice peptic ulcer, and perhaps a nice heart attack at age 40. God/Goddess does not, EVER, get involved in the affairs of humankind. If they did, even one time, it would ruin everything, the plans would go up in smoke, and everyone would clamour to get their will done personally by God also. I myself fail to see why some of you religious types never come up with these completely historical, and completely logical facts?

Originally posted by autowrench

Originally posted by smithjustinb
Judgement is the enemy of all that is. All that is is and can't be any other way. Judgement is your capacity to disagree with what is. If you don't like what is, really you don't like yourself.

I am very sorry you feel, and think that way, smithjustinb. I am well aware that I am my Judge for me, no God Judges anyone, that is a myth to keep you in line.

I never said God judges anyone. God doesn't judge at all. God allows and accepts freedom of expression instead. You can judge yourself all you want, but remember whatever opinion you have of yourself determines how your mind will be. The mind's nature is that of freedom because what is observed constitutes the mind and what is observed is free life. Opinions limit that freedom and therefore limit the mind's experience of its true nature. Hold no opinion and dwell within the mysteriousness of freely expressed life. Hold no judgement. Admit you know that you are but not what you are.