Rapture vs NONE rapture (dialogue to all christians)

reply to post by Jordan River
imo the rapture is happening real-time... good Christians are disappearing right in front of our eyes all over the place. Alot of them are getting out of the metropolitan areas atleast.

I'm not a good christian but I believe in Jesus... there is nothing more I want than to get the heck out of dodge right about now. I say your surrounding effect your personality and I actually want to live around Christians again like it was back when I was growing up... their presence makes for a better community to live in.

reply to post by SimonPeter


Make them kill you quick. Put up just enough of a fight they kill you instead of torture you to death slowly is what i say.

reply to post by Jordan River

I am just opening this dialogue for catholics and those damn heathenistic reformers to discuss Rapture vs non rapture.

I was brought up in a 'second coming cult' religion (back in the 50's) but its system pales into insignificance in comparison to the modern 'second coming cult' which is outlandish even to me. My reaction to the overt evil nature of the modern cult caused me to rethink the entire 'second coming' scenario and to ultimately reject it.
The entire theory hinges on 2 Thessalonians which itself has to be rejected as an obvious forgery written in the name of Paul to support a concept of fire coming down from heaven to destroy our enemies in our sight.

reply to post by TinkerHaus


This isn't "arguing" you're witnessing iron sharpening iron.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by SimonPeter

 

Make them kill you quick. Put up just enough of a fight they kill you instead of torture you to death slowly is what i say.

Doesn't matter. When that time comes for those whom God has ordained and anointed for martyrdom the Holy Spirit supernaturally gifts the grace to see it through much like Steven.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Yes, the body of Christ is a corporate body.
But there is no suggestion in Revelation that "John" is meant to represent a corporate body. Ch4 v1 is simply presented as the way that John, the individual, gets access to the visions.

I see the Biblical God as a God who commmunicates, who wants his people to understand what he is saying.If he has to use metaphors and images, he tries to make them accessible ones. For that reason, I'm always rather suspicious of any kind of "secret message" interpretation of Revelation.
Now the statement in 1 Thessalonians, that the "being caught up" occurs only when Christ returns, is very clearly laid out. I can't help thinking that if God wanted us to have any other understanding of the event, he would have said so more clearly, instead of leaving it to speculators to tease out the idea by indirect methods.

You ask where the chuch is after ch4.
As far as I'm, concerned;
The church is in ch7, being sealed by the Holy Spirit.
The church is in ch11 and ch13, being attacked and threatened with death by the forces opposed to God, but standing firm and bearing witness.
The church is in ch8, sending up the prayers to God which are being answered by the seven trumpets.
In short, the church is all over the place.

Before answering that point, be wary of the circular argument.
You're not allowed to say "They can't be the church, because the church has already been raptured", because that's the point you're trying to prove.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Anyone familiar with the FEMA Concentration camps knows that they aren't for illegal aliens .NAFTA was to precede the North American Union not unlike the EU .Have you noticed the Federal resistance to close the border with Mexico . We are the Christians enemy of the NWO . The NWO is an Antichrist government needed to facilitate the global e-money that he will use with the Mark of the Beast . The camps are real ! I have tracked 2 contracts to build them out of abandoned rail terminals and turn them into the same things the Jews were taken to . Always around a rail road just like the Nazi's . For the ( Enemies of the State) that resist the NWO and become a stumbling block for those wanting to take the MARK it's to the death camps. The Christians will become roving Gypsies, and there will be many they will have to be dealt with . Not substantiated is the claim that 30,000 guillotines were ordered and received by Fema .
If you haven't looked into the FEMA Camps or Fema Marshal Law you should .Alex Jones via ENDGAMES gives a good history of events leading up to where we are now and who is working to enslave us .

Originally posted by natters
.I'm also sick of being told that I wont be raptured simply because I don't believe in the rapture

You're quite right.
Whether there is a "Rapture" or not, believing in the Rapture is certainly not one of the conditions of faith.
So if we're both wrong, and the Rapture does happen in the way predicted, there's no reason whatever why we should be excluded just because we weren't expecting it.

reply to post by SimonPeter


Talk to OldCorp, he knows quite a bit about FEMA camps. He's been investigating them lately. Big large FEMA camps, giant FEMA coffins that can hold 1000 cremated corpses, and large mobile coroner tractor tailers capable of storing 30-50 bodies. Gotta wonder.

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by natters
.I'm also sick of being told that I wont be raptured simply because I don't believe in the rapture

You're quite right.
Whether there is a "Rapture" or not, believing in the Rapture is certainly not one of the conditions of faith.
So if we're both wrong, and the Rapture does happen in the way predicted, there's no reason whatever why we should be excluded just because we weren't expecting it.

Believing in the harpazo event is not a prerequisite for salvation. In the end if you're prepared and it does happen you have no worries. People get so wrapped up in trivial issues that are not the central message of salvation that they end up quarreling over nonsense and stepping on toes needlessly.

reply to post by DISRAELI


2nd Thessalonians chapter 2 is a letter sent to the church in Thessalonians to correct a false doctrine that had risen in the church . That false doctrine was that the Lord was coming soon and the church was not doing the work of God . Paul dispelled the notion that we were leaving anytime before the Son of Perdition is revealed that will sit in the Temple as God . He will be revealed to both believers and the deceived .
But lets see what Jesus said about it . I trust that all involved believes Jesus . In Matthew 24 verses 29 the story unfolds . Immediately after the tribulation of those days gives a date stamp to the event unfolding-------
The Rapture seems to be a re-emergence of that same false doctrine and when the Rapture does not happen as envisioned likely could be one reason for the Great Falling Away ( not to be confused with the gradual falling away we have been seeing ) .

reply to post by jmdewey60

The entire theory hinges on 2 Thessalonians which itself has to be rejected as an obvious forgery written in the name of Paul to support a concept of fire coming down from heaven to destroy our enemies in our sight.

Right, and if you want to go that route i will say this. If you can't believe even one part of it, if you throw out even one part of it you have to throw it all out and then what are you left with? Hm? Absolutely nothing. If you're going to cherry pick the bible you negate the entire thing and you're better off walking after your own desires.

reply to post by DISRAELI


Does that say church or "elect"? Now does the word elect and church have the same Greek term used? I know what your issue is no need to explain, I'm trying to show you your Ekklesiology and Israelology are mangled into one theological doctrine that a careful study of the text doesn't support.

Does it say church or "elect" in your pile of verses?

reply to post by SimonPeter

Yes, I suspect that the "Rapture" teaching, like the practice of trying to calculate the dates of these future events, is really a symptom of impatience.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

In ch7 I'm looking at "the servants of God".
In ch8 and ch13 I''m looking at "the saints".
In ch11, I'm looking at "those who worship in the Temple".
I'm taking all these to mean "those who belong to God", without drawing fine distinctions between them.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Wondering is over , it's time to prepare . Jesus said there would be those that remain .I believe that we will see an economic shut down , meaning food and water . Also the new Bird Flu they have spent so much money developing will be used . Google < Eugenics Quotes > these are made by people living today in the NWO .
I will look into this guy . But be forewarned that the NWO is real and their plan is massive population reduction .
The United Nations official document< Agenda 21> lays out their plan for full control of your life and is being implemented in your community TODAY . You may have heard of Sustainable Development . In this plan you are not sustainable !

reply to post by SimonPeter

The Rapture seems to be a re-emergence of that same false doctrine and when the Rapture does not happen as envisioned likely could be one reason for the Great Falling Away ( not to be confused with the gradual falling away we have been seeing ) .

This already happened in 1844 with the Advent (pre Seventh Day Adventists). They pinpointed the time Christ would return using the old prophets but they failed a pre-requisite in Daniel. From that day forward they stopped trying to predict his return using the prophecies because it caused many of them (who were baptists, pentacostals and methodists) to lose heart and fall away and turn to secularism. The remnant that remained created the SDA church.

The Great Disappointment was a major event in the history of the Millerite movement, a 19th-century American Christian sect that formed out of the Second Great Awakening. Based on his interpretations of the prophecies in the book of Daniel (Chapters 8 and 9, especially Dan. 8:14 "Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed"), William Miller, a Baptist preacher, proposed that Jesus Christ would return to the earth during the year 1844. The more specific date of October 22, 1844, was preached by Samuel S. Snow. Thousands of followers, some of whom had given away all of their possessions, waited expectantly. When Jesus did not appear, October 22, 1844, became known as the Great Disappointment

Source

The part they forgot about was where Daniel was told to seal the book and forget about it, but the book would come again in the form of John's book of Revelation.

Daniel 12: 11-12 “And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.

In prophetic language 1 day = 1000 years and sometimes it can be 1 day= 1 year, it is situational (Enochwasright knows alot about this). So 1290 days later is 1290 years after the Temple was destroyed and daily sacrifice ended.

So what happened in the year 1360 A.D.? What happened that would lead pre-incarnate Yeshua to tell Daniel "Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days."

What happened in the church in 1360? Could be that it may have been the time the Waldenses began the roots of protestant christianity. Something major happened that year.

Peter Waldo

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

The Gog Magog war and the AC saving of Israel from total destruction only to facilitate the Temple to be rebuilt so he can sit in the seat of God 2nd Thess. chapter 2 seems to me to be the only thing left to signal the 2nd coming . Many will think the AC is Jesus because he saves Israel and builds the Temple. I believe that when the AC sits in the Temple and shows himself as he were God the Ultra Religious Jews reject him as not being the Lord and his fury comes up to destroy Israel off the map. Thats when the Lord Jesus comes back to save Israel Thats my take on the matter .

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

The Gog Magog war and the AC saving of Israel from total destruction only to facilitate the Temple to be rebuilt so he can sit in the seat of God 2nd Thess. chapter 2 seems to me to be the only thing left to signal the 2nd coming . Many will think the AC is Jesus because he saves Israel and builds the Temple. I believe that when the AC sits in the Temple and shows himself as he were God the Ultra Religious Jews reject him as not being the Lord and his fury comes up to destroy Israel off the map. Thats when the Lord Jesus comes back to save Israel Thats my take on the matter .

See my thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You might find it interesting.

reply to post by TinkerHaus


I've read it, front to back, revelation numorous times, what is your point? are you tryin to say i am a hollow christian? just say it