12 Christians in Iran await verdicts after Easter Sunday Apostasy Trial

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by MichiganSwampBuck

 

Those who engage in the acts of carpet bombing, raping, and murdering, are not true Christians, they are in fact the opposite.

This right here is why i do not vote for so called "christians" running for office. If we vote for these people and they sign off on committing those acts we are just as guilty as they are and i will not have it. Yeshua never gave us the rights to make war or murder other people, or obtain worldly power and worldly wealth or force our beliefs on someone else at the point of a sword or on pain of death.

Actually read the link I made in the post below for your answer. it might be you are a little off. I hope it sheds some light.

reply to post by yuppa


you have never once seen me say anything in favor of extremism, I am the first to call a terrorist a terrorist... I will however defend Islam when it is practiced truthfully, and this thread is one example. I did not make excuses for trying someone for apostasy, I did however explain why from the Islamic standpoint. I did not blame Christians or Christianity for the actions of the Islamic Republic of Iran concerning placing on trial some apostates to Islam.

But when you only want to demonize Islam, I say do it after you clean up your own mess....You know, pulling that log out of your eye before examining my splinter...

I am taking my leave, and I wish you all well in this life. Just remember your actions, might want to take care of them now, they are going before you. I am taking care of mine.

If you all would nicely keep to yourself and your business we are certainly happy to keep to ours. I would appreciate it much.

reply to post by Jameela

I never said that you did support extremism. I just showed you the justification Christians beleive in. I did not mean to make you run away as well. At least you have the courtesy to defend your position in a civil manner so to speak.

I don't know what you're crying about here.

It's just another dumb ass religious person being persecuted by another dumb ass religious person.

Case closed.

I know it's all politically incorrect to speak out against all dumb ass religions, but so what.

Let you all reap what you sow for believing in such dumb ass crap to being with.

Enjoy!!

reply to post by yuppa


sorry, I thought it was more trash on Islam

forgive me for jumping to that conclusion

anyway, you are not making me run away. I wish we could all just let other countries manage how they see fit and not try to dictate to the world what other countries laws should be....to me these threads are trying to convince people why US should go bomb other countries, I doubt I will ever understand.

Originally posted by Jameela
reply to post by yuppa

 

you have never once seen me say anything in favor of extremism, I am the first to call a terrorist a terrorist... I will however defend Islam when it is practiced truthfully, and this thread is one example. I did not make excuses for trying someone for apostasy, I did however explain why from the Islamic standpoint. I did not blame Christians or Christianity for the actions of the Islamic Republic of Iran concerning placing on trial some apostates to Islam.

But when you only want to demonize Islam, I say do it after you clean up your own mess....You know, pulling that log out of your eye before examining my splinter...

I am taking my leave, and I wish you all well in this life. Just remember your actions, might want to take care of them now, they are going before you. I am taking care of mine.

If you all would nicely keep to yourself and your business we are certainly happy to keep to ours. I would appreciate it much.

edit on 12-4-2012 by Jameela because: (no reason given)

Jameela, as a muslim I must say you failed this debate, epically....

If you approach a debate from the standpoint of a Muslim, or a Christian, or a Jew, you've already failed.

Sorry, but your antiquated beliefs, however precious and adorable, are soon drawing to an end as far as usefulness. New generations don't automatically demand respect by virtue of a label or tradition, but rather on merit alone.

You are all so screwed.

reply to post by Jameela


Its ok. I have mis understandings all the time. I wish people would not just bash a entire religion based on one or a few crazies. Its confusing to alot of the US citizens as well at times. Mayby this is the decade we all get it right?

reply to post by yuppa


I would like to add, because I read what you linked now one thing.

Self defense is NOT preemptive strikes, or preemptive attacks... that is like walking up to a man in the street who has done you no harm and punching him in the face because you thought he might attack you at some distant future.... that is not self defense. For it to be self defense you have to first be attacked.


we will get it right this decade though, inshaallah inshallah (God willing) it is my hope anyway that we can stop the madness.

I wish you well... peace

Originally posted by camus154
If you approach a debate from the standpoint of a Muslim, or a Christian, or a Jew, you've already failed.

Sorry, but your antiquated beliefs, however precious and adorable, are soon drawing to an end as far as usefulness. New generations don't automatically demand respect by virtue of a label or tradition, but rather on merit alone.

You are all so screwed.

Im sorry you see it that way. All of these religions try to do good for their followers and others if they did not they would have died out long ago. What do people of your stripe do that is actually of Merit and not to glorify yourselves?
Coming into a conversation not concerning you is more of a fail than anything else. We do not demand respect. I do not personaly demand respect because to earn respect you have to want to get it. We present our beleifs,you have to choose yourself whether to beleive in them.

Originally posted by yuppa
Im sorry you see it that way. All of these religions try to do good for their followers and others if they did not they would have died out long ago. What do people of your stripe do that is actually of Merit and not to glorify yourselves?
Coming into a conversation not concerning you is more of a fail than anything else. We do not demand respect. I do not personaly demand respect because to earn respect you have to want to get it. We present our beleifs,you have to choose yourself whether to beleive in them.

Oh puh-lease.

You brought about the dark ages. You brought about the crusades. You brought about 9/11. Shall I go on?

Anyway, you know it's true. Of course you do. The gap is quickly narrowing for your god of the gaps, and soon he will have no further crevice in which to hide.

Science will have defeated ignorance. And to that I say, good *&#% riddance.

reply to post by camus154


Science is a wonderful thing, and has given us a great deal, hopefully it will continue to improve our world. But, even if you do not believe in any God, you have to admit the genius logic behind religion and religious laws. Truly thousands of years before science knew about things such as germs, religion and religious laws were defeating the impact of germs upon people, the list can go on, but just because you consider some of it barbaric, does not mean it is not ultimately for the good of the society. How much good on society is the commandment not to commit murder, how much good for society are all these laws? even apostasy can be looked at in the exact same light as laws against treason.

It's all in the way you turn your head and look at it, but religion itself is no more harmful than science.

reply to post by Jameela

Obama is a Christian also, although some appear to disagree with his sect of christianity and many do takfir upon him even Santorum says he is a christian

Um no, Obama is not one of us, he knows the Quran better than the Holy Bible (and he quotes from it more than anything else) and that right there should tell you he is a closet muslim.

No one who does any of those things is a christian or of the N'tzarim. Disobedience to Christ=antichrist and if you want to know Yeshua go read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.



Obama is a muslim, according to Islam children born of a muslim father are muslim, which is why they will not allow a muslim woman to marry a christian or jewish man. The child will be what the father is according to them. Now ask youselves how doe she know the Quran so well?

Want to see why Obama had Ghaddafi killed? Ghaddafi busted him out in the open in front of the world.

reply to post by Jameela


Could not have said it better. I agree with that statement 100 percent. Im curious though werent the dark ages a time of barbaric rule,not religious rule? the dark ages lead to the age of the crusades who was gauided by a man in rome using religion as a way to control the sheeple. Alot of followers who did not comprehend the relgious text were tricked,and because they could not read mostly back then it was easy to fool them. And as for 9-11 i dont recall the catholic church or muslims who are not extremist celebrating such a tragedy.

I guess the questions is,,,

what would "Sulieman The Magnificent"
a muslim
,,, do,,,,???

cause all i known is
that when something like this happened at HIS arrest
and Peter,
of the Twelve Apostles,,
HEADS of the 12 Tribes,, newly appointed by Christ,,
cut off the Roman Centuriens ear,,,,
he being CHRIST ,, said
"put up your swords"
,, and he put the Centurions ear back on,,, better than the old one,,,
he was deaf,,,
and we all know who that famous Roman CEnturion was,,,,,,


what would
CHRIST have ordered done,,,,???

no brainer,,

lol
Me.

reply to post by Jameela

you have never once seen me say anything in favor of extremism

Harsh punishments for apostasy is surely extremism in my book. And you did not answer my question:

So what is it, is the declaration sufficient for a punishment? Or are insults and defamation required? And what is the appropiate punishment according to you?

Islamic Sharia Law in Brief!

islammonitor.org...

Originally posted by yuppa
reply to post by Jameela

 

Could not have said it better. I agree with that statement 100 percent. Im curious though werent the dark ages a time of barbaric rule,not religious rule? the dark ages lead to the age of the crusades who was gauided by a man in rome using religion as a way to control the sheeple. Alot of followers who did not comprehend the relgious text were tricked,and because they could not read mostly back then it was easy to fool them. And as for 9-11 i dont recall the catholic church or muslims who are not extremist celebrating such a tragedy.

Yes the early middle ages after the sacking of Rome, was a time of barbaric rule, that is simple history. It was not until later that the Christian Church gained in power, and the smaller groups of peoples found with their allegiance and alignment with the Christian Church they had some measure of unity as a group, and this is how the Church gained in political power, because it did unite the tribes, and the tribes in turn became beholden to the Church.

Once the Church had more power, or enough power, then it when the time of religious rule became a danger, and the religion was being used against the people for political ends and means, and a means of absolute control of the people, as well as leaders of varying tribes.

All forms of learning were in the hands of the church, and only available to the priests and monks, bishops (etc). Knowledge and learning was not available to the common man, hence keeping control over them by keeping them in ignorance. By this point in history, you see that religion was only a political tool, and not a Godly matter.

From the very beginning, however, there were two groups, the Jewish group who followed the teachings of Jesus (as) and the Pauline group, it was at the council of Nicaea that the Pauline group prevailed, and Christianity as taught by Jesus (as) never recovered. (this is of course my opinion, I am sure every Christian in the world disagrees)

My reasoning in making the statement religion not being more harmful than science, is even calculating all the times in history when religion was used only for a political tool, and all the people who died as a result of these times (and all sides have these times not only Christians and not only Muslims) you would still see less deaths than the deaths science caused (see atomic bomb, nuclear waste, power plant disasters, all the many bombs and other such resultant deaths and deformities)

As the poster to whom I replied had such a dim view of all religions verses science

Not all religions have used or are currently using religion for the right reasons, I see three groups who have banded together to use religion in the name of power in current times, religion I do not believe these groups believe in but only sees it as a means of control and power, 2 of these 3 groups are also making ample use of science. It is these groups we should fight against, all those who still have some semblance of truth left in us. I would name these groups, but I do not believe it is necessary. Any with eyes wide open will see distinctly all three groups.

What is, perhaps, more difficult is the discernment of which followers of the religions among these groups is yet undeceived by the lies and propaganda directed at them.

From the article

"No verdict has yet been issued in the case . . .

'Their defense was that they were performing religious rituals that are protected by law,' DeMars said. . .

But converting, or more specifically, the act of turning from Islam, can be punishable by death. To leave the Islamic faith or to attempt to convert others away from the faith warrants capital punishment under Shariah Law."

There is still time for the Iranian people to show compassion to the world, however it doesn't look good for the accused. The Iranian's are a well educated people and their country is very modern. I hope they make a favorable ruling and show kindness and wisdom, but that seems like a long shot.

Edit to add: I'm going to give you a couple of stars Jameela for some of your points.