PsyOps or MK Ultra in Action

Interesting thread.

It would be difficult to do on a large scale. On a smaller scale, individually, it could take as little as some acute observation skills and a couple of generic-sounding questions to begin building a profile and influencing someone.

The hard part, and especially in a confident strong-willed person, is getting them to change their core belief structure or subconscious thoughts.

The boot-camp model works well to diminish individuality and build cohesive team structures, but I think it really does require a "good cop" to effect buy-in on a personal basis.

reply to post by Symbiot


You should also linked it to spousal abuse (mostly towards women) and parental mental torture of children (rarer) but with the same effect, the creation not only of dependency but also an extreme low level of self esteem and independent thought...

This is also done by the media, by promoting models that are not realistic they downgrade and erode the ego of the target, that see itself as unfit...

Of course that if someone has the mental perseverance to endure the practice but actively resist it it will become unenfranchised (to the controller, society), really (or categorized as psychotic) and if biologically susceptible it can awake psychopathic tendencies...

The good cop effect is really only necessary if the goal is to control a person to a certain end. One would use the ridicule approach on a heavy basis and then later bring in a 'good cop.' The subject thinks "Finally someone likes me" and is willing to do anything to keep this one, possibly more, friend. Now that the subject is willing to do anything to keep this 'friend' said good cop can direct the subjects actions and beliefs.

If the goal is simply to get the subject to commit suicide, "suicided," then the good cop is not necessary. The offenders simply stick with the ego attacks until the subject becomes depressed and then they implant the suicide idea and leave the subject to their own devices. By implant I mean, being as how they've observed the subject, place a photo or article with suicide as a noticeable theme in a place where the subject will see it.

The military uses similar tactics in boot camp, their goal is a bit different though as you said. The military wants their subjects to obey them so they break the subjects ego or will and then re-build him in whatever image they see fit. This usually means they want the subject to have a strong sense of camaraderie, which not only helps the subject to work well in team based actions, but also builds loyalty which is of the utmost importance to any military. Routing the enemy is quite useful and the more loyal the troops the less likely they are to be routed.

This was the purpose of Shock and Awe for Gulf II. The American military built up this idea of a massive never before seen awesome show of power to strike fear into the hearts of Iraqi soldiers in the hopes that maybe 5-10% of their troops would simply run away before the war even got started. Probably worked too.

These tactics are nothing particularly new, like you said, abusive husbands use them, abusive parents use them, even friends use them, but not to the same degree. Military or covert organizations have sunk billions into the scientific research of such tactics so they have a lot more knowledge on when and where to use which tactic. Corporations like the idea of making people feel like their worth less than they are, this way they can pay a smaller salary. Secret societies use these tactics too, they prey on those with self-esteem issues so they can just put in a few well placed compliments and their prey becomes putty in their hands.

reply to post by Panic2k11


As far as what types of people are less or not at all susceptible to the aforementioned tactics. Well they might have a massive ego

I really don't know if a psycho is or is not susceptible to these tactics, I can see where they might not be since they've got a few wires crossed and thus react differently to stimuli. This does not mean that all non-susceptible subjects are psycho though. I've heard these tactics don't work well on autistic subjects, which makes sense since they too are not likely to react predictably to stimuli.

However; one can be a perfectly sane person that just has an understanding of the world that is completely different than what anyone else has, thus he is less likely to react predictably to common stimuli. That is this particular subject knows things that the offenders have never seen before so they really don't know how to communicate with him as there is no precedent.

For the record I really don't know who did 9/11. Al-Qaeda(SP?) wasn't really a terrorist group as much as they were a mercenary group. I wouldn't be surprised to find that they never actually claimed responsibility for the attacks and if they did it would've been a publicity stunt that didn't pan out well.

IF the US had a hand in planning it there would've been elements that knew of it and elements that didn't. GWB probably wasn't in on it, neither was Cheney most likely. Being mercilessly attacked on the whole 7 minutes thing was probably a political move, the democrats trying to make the republicans look stupid as usual, not that the republicans don't do the same thing. To be honest 7 minutes is actually a very short period of time for Bush to figure out his next move while also trying not to frighten any young students.

Edit: Speaking of politics, Santorum calling Obama names was a political move. He took one for the team so to speak, garnering votes from racists.

It didn't occur to me when I originally typed up this thread, but if you're on the bad side of the CIA or anyone else using PsyOp tactics then you're probably likely to have your job, bank accounts and credit attacked. Don't know much about that myself as I do not have a bank account, credit cards or a job so I never had that problem. I'm not about to sell my life to these people, that's just insanity.

I have just read about 80 official, unclassified documents on MkULTRA and it seems like they have later changed their methods for A; deep hypnosis and, B; CLASSIFIED (which I believe, from the description of it might be related to psychic activities, but that's only jubilation). I find it rather interesting that the website I visited to view the documents has been attacked and documents have been removed from it.

reply to post by psyan


Hypnosis does not work at all, you cannot implant any type of activity to a persons mind via hypnosis. Anyone on TV claiming to act like a chicken under hypnosis is just acting.

In addition to that one way of "proving" a claim such as MK Ultra is via reverse psychology. Act like you are against the info being out there and it appears as though it's true. If you're looking at classified or declassified CIA documents it's because the CIA wants you to.

Moreover if the CIA tells you to shut up you best speak up.

If the CIA tells you to speak up, speak up. If they're paying attention to you they probably don't want anyone else to pay attention to you. Bring attention to yourself and it's a lot harder for them to attack you.

Who cares if you look crazy or not, might just save your life.

Originally posted by Symbiot
reply to post by psyan

 

Hypnosis does not work at all, you cannot implant any type of activity to a persons mind via hypnosis. Anyone on TV claiming to act like a chicken under hypnosis is just acting.

In addition to that one way of "proving" a claim such as MK Ultra is via reverse psychology. Act like you are against the info being out there and it appears as though it's true. If you're looking at classified or declassified CIA documents it's because the CIA wants you to.

Moreover if the CIA tells you to shut up you best speak up.

edit on 11-4-2012 by Symbiot because: (no reason given)

If the CIA tells you to speak up, speak up. If they're paying attention to you they probably don't want anyone else to pay attention to you. Bring attention to yourself and it's a lot harder for them to attack you.

edit on 11-4-2012 by Symbiot because: (no reason given)

Who cares if you look crazy or not, might just save your life.

edit on 11-4-2012 by Symbiot because: (no reason given)

Talking about crazy people...

reply to post by psyan


I'm not sure you understand. You see if you want to accomplish anything you've got to think outside of the box and in order to do that you've got to go a little crazy every now and again. To arrive at never before seen results you venture out into the unknown. You've got to allow yourself the freedom to consider the craziest of possibilities and the sanest of possibilities. Once you've covered all your bases then you reel it in a bit and arrive at the most plausible solution.

If we didn't have crazies we wouldn't have Nikolai Tesla or Albert Einstein. The universe is neither sane or insane, it just is.

Edit: Mmm, that one felt good comin' out. Just... The god's honest truth.


I might look crazy to you, but to me you're the one on the other side of sane.

reply to post by Symbiot


Another extremely effective way to influence behavior goes along with the camaraderie idea.

At first the individual is broken down by being punished for his own behavior infractions, large, small or nonexistent. The punishment may even seem random, both in timing and severity. They may seem out of proportion to the alleged behavior. They are designed to interrupt the normal processing loop of the subject which gives rise to self-doubt.

Later the entire team may be publicly punished for the actions of one individual. The individuals begin to rely on each other and form bonds of trust.

For me the most striking example of this process was when one person was punished for the actions of another.

I think guilt may have a stronger effect on behavior modification than physical pain. I had a buddy once that had been injured and he had been declared off-limits temporarily for physical punishment. When he made a mistake one day he was brought into my room and given a chair to sit in while I was put through the punishment while he watched.

Don't get me wrong, it was just typical exercise-to-failure stuff but it had a dramatic impact on him and his behavior.

reply to post by emsed1


I've just started reading this thread, but your comment has really stuck out for me because of a particular group I've become rather outspoken about.
Here's what you stated:

Another extremely effective way to influence behavior goes along with the camaraderie idea.

At first the individual is broken down by being punished for his own behavior infractions, large, small or nonexistent. The punishment may even seem random, both in timing and severity. They may seem out of proportion to the alleged behavior. They are designed to interrupt the normal processing loop of the subject which gives rise to self-doubt.

Later the entire team may be publicly punished for the actions of one individual. The individuals begin to rely on each other and form bonds of trust.

You're absolutely right and you've outlined the formula quite precisely. The group I'm speaking about is a worldwide running/drinking club. These are the exact tactics that they use on their members, yet when you go to their sites and read the comments, most people say that they enjoy the camaraderie. This mindset is akin to loving your abuser and choosing to remain in an abusive relationship. The members in this club are degraded through humiliation and physical pain while alcohol is used as a reward as well as a punishment. Getting new and younger members is one of the main focal points. When certain events are planned and are considered particularly dangerous, the coordinator(s) are sure to announce that if someone gets hurt during the activity, it's their fault and nobody else is to blame. I'd mention the group, but I'm always slapped with a T&C violation because the links are way too vulgar and extreme for ATS.

To the Op, thanks for presenting this very educational thread. Psychological abuse is alive and well in society and those in control enjoy seeing the masses fall prey to this type of degradation and self loathing. It makes the ones at the top feel stronger.

AfterThought and emsed1 you both have excellent points. Peer pressure is common and not limited to secret societies or those with lots of money and power, though they've brought about an evolution in the application of such practices.

I propose that those "in power" are not immune to these practices themselves. One reason they're so good at it is likely because they've been subjected to it themselves, to a degree which they've learned from it. Nonetheless I believe they are still subjected to such practices and the pain it causes them only makes them want to bring that pain to others.

Is no one above the influence so to speak? I suggest that anyone who would put you through such a thing is not your friend or your mentor, but only another frightened victim themselves. For the bully on the playground is only covering for his own pain and fears, the bully bullies as a defense mechanism. Afraid that he will be bullied should he not bully first.

reply to post by Symbiot

it is likely because they've been subjected to it themselves

You're quite right indeed.
I also believe that most of this is also placed under the guise of 'tradition'. Most people in general have families who did things because it was tradition such as leaving shoes outside on New Year's Eve and having ham for Christmas Eve. Most cultures have a great respect traditions and this steadfast belief is used by these nefarious groups to make the abuse seem ethical and observable. It helps strengthen the brainwashing and if anyone objects, those in the group will admonish them for shunning tradition. This technique brings about childhood memories where they refused to do something their families did as tradition and were punished, so this encourages them to go along with the group when they are confronted with this as an adult by those who they should consider "family".

reply to post by Afterthought


Truly an excellent post Afterhtough. So too do children grow up to beat their own children because that's how their parents did it. "When you grow up you'll understand" the parents say and so the children grow up and think, "oh I do get it now my children are my work horses. They are possessions of mine and like any possession they are to be treated as an object, not a person."

I am reminded of a recent story in the news regarding a girl who cried out for help on Facebook because her father was working her too hard. Instead of listening to his daughter's cries for help the father destroyed her means of calling for help, similar to the Soviet Union's Iron Curtain.

It sounds like you have some mis-conceptions and are overly sensitive to personal criticism. In cases like that and if a person does not want to acknowledge their shortcomings it is best to stay alone more. Just like if you were on a sports team and took criticism because you were not as good as the majority of the other team members and they make fun of you. Some can laugh it off and just say "well i am not as good at hitting a ball" while some brood and really get hurt but these things are always going to occur when you deal with all different personality types. Some people are naturally agressive and really dont mean harm but are more type A personalities. Sure we can possibly be less cruel, but then there is also letting things pass and roll off your back and that would help to build character.

If you were in a boxing league and an opponent says "you hit like a girl" do you train harder, take it from where it comes and realise you are better at other things that your opponent may really suck at or handle it in a way that indicates maybe you really do have some emotional problems and a "world is out to get me" complex.

I am not a type A personality and have took some harsh criticism and even a little "bullying" when i was younger but it didnt bother me so much since i knew i was more creative or just had not much of an interest in being the one with hundreds of friends because lets face facts, these people are not always the happiest people either and suffer from depression or go through periods of depression and self doubt themselves.

I know you will say that this is not related but i think if you were subjective and honest you woud see it is related.

Originally posted by Symbiot

Edit: Insanity - Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

edit on 10-4-2012 by Symbiot because: (no reason given)

That does not indicate insanity and it is only a line from a Stephen King movie though i am not positive it originated there but would not surprise me. People who play the lottery every day and loose are not insane because they play every day expecting to win. The line is not really meant to be literal but in the movie and the context it just sounded good.

reply to post by Symbiot

"When you grow up you'll understand"

Here's another: "This hurts me much more than it hurts you."

My mother grew up in an abusive household, but she didn't carry on the tradition. More people should be so smart. It's a vicious cycle that few are able to break free from. Humanity would be so much further along if we were able to move in upward spirals instead of two dimensional circles.

reply to post by Malcher


I understand your viewponts, yet there is a huge difference between constructive criticism and abuse.
Where you knew that you had other strengths and talents, some can't see the forest for the trees.

reply to post by Afterthought


My mother carried on the abusive tradition to a lesser extent, but like I said earlier I didn't have to deal with it because she was largely absent.

Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by Symbiot

 

"When you grow up you'll understand"

Here's another: "This hurts me much more than it hurts you."

My mother grew up in an abusive household, but she didn't carry on the tradition. More people should be so smart. It's a vicious cycle that few are able to break free from. Humanity would be so much further along if we were able to move in upward spirals instead of two dimensional circles.

There is a big difference between taking criticism from a parent or significant other and even in cases of physical abuse it is harder to deal with. The closest people in your life are supposed to be your biggest support system...if not it is time to say goodbye.

ETA: also your own experience indicates it is not really a vicious cycle because too many cases show otherwise though a child can be like a parent in a negative way.

These are all personal opinions and I not a psychologist just think that vicious cycle stuff does a dis-service to people who were victimised. Often times they turn out very different.